Hi all, am I the only one that only sees knives as tools?

singularity35 said:
Not true. What about those tools in stores that aren't being used, aren't they tools yet because they haven't been used?
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They are in stores for one reason. To be sold for the uses for which they were designed and manufactured.

Is a chair any less furniture if it's not being sat on?
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Many chairs in my house aren't now being sat upon, but they've been sat upon and will be sat upon again. That'ds why they were made.

If it has a blade and a handle, it's a knife. Trust me on this....;)
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Not if the intent is to not use it, not cut with it, not slice with it, and not resharpen it. Call it art or whatever. But to call it a knife....



So let me reword it --- a tool is not a tool if it won't be used.
 
leghog said:
They are in stores for one reason. To be sold for the uses for which they were designed and manufactured.

Many chairs in my house aren't now being sat upon, but they've been sat upon and will be sat upon again. That'ds why they were made.

Not if the intent is to not use it, not cut with it, not slice with it, and not resharpen it. Call it art or whatever. But to call it a knife....
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If it's a sharpened length of metal with a handle, I'm going to call it a knife... um, unless it's a sword. Or an axe. :) Or some kind of robotic stabbing machine that has become self-aware, and wants to be legally recognized as a cat. That's a tough one.
 
I
leghog said:
They are in stores for one reason. To be sold for the uses for which they were designed and manufactured.

Many chairs in my house aren't now being sat upon, but they've been sat upon and will be sat upon again. That'ds why they were made.

Not if the intent is to not use it, not cut with it, not slice with it, and not resharpen it. Call it art or whatever. But to call it a knife....



So let me reword it --- a tool is not a tool if it won't be used.
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If said knife (or other tool) was designed and made to be fully functional but is not being used (or hasn't been used yet), then it is simply an unused (or mint condition) knife or other tool. :)

Jim
 
leghog said:
They are in stores for one reason. To be sold for the uses for which they were designed and manufactured.

Many chairs in my house aren't now being sat upon, but they've been sat upon and will be sat upon again. That'ds why they were made.

Not if the intent is to not use it, not cut with it, not slice with it, and not resharpen it. Call it art or whatever. But to call it a knife....

So let me reword it --- a tool is not a tool if it won't be used.
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Since I can't read minds (and know a makers intent) or see the future (knowing if a knife will ever be used in years to come), I'll have to go with calling a knife a knife. Some knives might serve religious or symbolic functions, but as long as they look like knives, and can be used as functional cutting instruments, they're still knives to me. Pharaohs and Kings and Emperors carried incredibly ornate swords inlaid with gold and jewels -- like the knife found in Tutankhamun's tomb, famously replicated by Buster Warenski -- that were symbols of their office and power, rarely used... but they were also sharpened cutting tools and weapons. They're still considered knives and swords, and are called such by reputable historians and archaeologists.

I think it's awesome that a knife discussion has wandered into the territory of basic philosophy and semantics, but it seems more like disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable. I respect that you've got your own working definition of 'knife', but there are clearly other valid points of view.
 
I think those that are asserting "it's not a knife if it's not being used" have backed themselves into a strange position in the debate. Does it have the attributes, construction and materials typical of a knife? Could it be used as a knife? Then it's a knife. Call it a "potential knife" if that makes you feel better otherwise you're just making yourselves look silly.
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There's plenty of things that can be an industrial design item, meant for mass production, that transcended that fact and became art. The items become both art and the item that originally names what it is.
Take Bob Loveless's knives for example or more widely accepted for its form and function as well as a piece of art the Eames Chair by Herman Miller. Can be viewed at the MoMa

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I view them as just tools, although there is some sense in saying that I'd not be here on this forum is that was 100% true... ;) Plus how often I think about knives (vs. hammers or something) does say something. :D

Like James Y, price isn't a factor in whether I view a knife as a collector piece, but sentimentality can. I have some M-Tech knives I will keep because my granny bought them for me, even though I'd never choose them for myself. I have a couple cheaper knives from my grandfather who is now passed on, that I don't use much because I don't have a lot from him. One is a cool fixed blade from Craftsman.
 
Stelth said:
I think those that are asserting "it's not a knife if it's not being used" have backed themselves into a strange position in the debate. Does it have the attributes, construction and materials typical of a knife? Could it be used as a knife? Then it's a knife. Call it a "potential knife" if that makes you feel better otherwise you're just making yourselves look silly.
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Excuse me, but I prefer to call such knives "metaphysical" :D

I just watched that movie for the first time last week, believe it or not.

I bet I couldn't carry such a knife in Australia anymore. :(
 
Stelth said:
I think those that are asserting "it's not a knife if it's not being used" have backed themselves into a strange position in the debate. Does it have the attributes, construction and materials typical of a knife? Could it be used as a knife? Then it's a knife. Call it a "potential knife" if that makes you feel better otherwise you're just making yourselves look silly.
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If you aren't willing to use it, it's then totally useless as a knife. Call it art or something else.
 
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cchu518 said:
There's plenty of things that can be an industrial design item, meant for mass production, that transcended that fact and became art. The items become both art and the item that originally names what it is.
Take Bob Loveless's knives for example or more widely accepted for its form and function as well as a piece of art the Eames Chair by Herman Miller. Can be viewed at the MoMa

CRI_229307.jpg
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In an interview Loveless was pretty upset with those who bought his knives but refused to use them.

I have mid-century furniture in my dining room that's considered art. But it's furniture, and I use it for that purpose for which it was designed and built. What good would that Eames chair be if you would only look at it but never sit in it. If you re-scan this thread, THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT.
 
leghog said:
If you aren't willing to use it, it's then totally useless as a knife. Call it art or something else.
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You're trying to make it an either/or proposition. It doesn't have to be just one....it's a knife that's treated like art. Because it's treated like art, it stops being being a knife? If you think that is so, try bringing an "artknife" through airport security and see what happens.
 
Stelth said:
I think those that are asserting "it's not a knife if it's not being used" have backed themselves into a strange position in the debate. Does it have the attributes, construction and materials typical of a knife? Could it be used as a knife? Then it's a knife. Call it a "potential knife" if that makes you feel better otherwise you're just making yourselves look silly.
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+1. Well said.

cchu518 said:
There's plenty of things that can be an industrial design item, meant for mass production, that transcended that fact and became art. The items become both art and the item that originally names what it is.
Take Bob Loveless's knives for example or more widely accepted for its form and function as well as a piece of art the Eames Chair by Herman Miller. Can be viewed at the MoMa
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Great point... I was thinking of Loveless knives as well. Given their worth, some of his last knives may never have cut anything more than paper, and probably never will; but suggesting that a Loveless isn't a knife would probably trigger apoplectic fits, grand mal seizures, and spontaneous combustion amongst more than a few BF members.

And I wasn't going to get into it, but since you made the point so nicely: Definitely. Knives can be art as well... both actual f***ing 'Art Knives', which qualify as folk art or even outsider art (Rick Hinderer -- the hard-use hero and one-time first responder -- got his start doing art knives); and high art as well. One of the most important artists in history used knives for his most recent conceptual art masterpiece.

I can only be referring to James Franco, of course -- and his mind-shattering brilliance :D -- as well as his work dedicated to his (now-deceased) pal Brad Renfro. The two met while filming the unspeakably awful 'Deuces Wild', about gangs in 1950's New York... therefore, switchblades.

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As someone obsessed with art both historical and contemporary, high and low, I feel wrong mentioning one of the many douchebags who's done his part to make contemporary art a joke to the educated public, along with Bjork, Jeff Koons, Damien Hirst, and 'Artnews' (with its new influx of 'talent' no doubt harvested from the crop of TMZ cast-offs).

Maybe one day he'll make a real contribution, and end up in one of Hirst's huge installations, filled with formaldehyde and hugging a dead shark.
 
Stelth said:
You're trying to make it an either/or proposition. It doesn't have to be just one....it's a knife that's treated like art. Because it's treated like art, it stops being being a knife? If you think that is so, try bringing an "artknife" through airport security and see what happens.
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See again post #94, for the genesis of this sub-discussion --- "...if I owned a knife that was valued at multiple thousands of dollars there's no way I would view it as a tool and you can bet I would do everything I could to avoid scratching it."

Those weren't my words
 
Tools can be seen as a beautiful thing.

“Form follows function—that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union.” – Frank Lloyd Wright

There are those who worry about scratches on things like wrenches and such. I don't understand them, but they exist.

I do worry about things such as steel quality on tools like a shovel or hammer.

And a knife is the first tool.
 
I was going to ask if Renfro was about the sock corporation but, your post clarified.

I admire Franco though, he wants to do more, like writing and teaching... I enjoy when actors want to be more than actors.
 
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