HI Scramsax/Seax/Saex Design Thread

[Daniel Koster]

Originally posted by Ferrous Wheel
Will the wood model for 4D be 3-D?

Actually, it will start out as 2-D...
Then DaveK will make it 3-D...
And the kamis will make it 4-D...

 

[Dave K]

At this point I don't know if I'm making 3D, AAA, 34C, or what.

Maybe we could play "Battleship" over the net here...

 

[stephensee]

Best regards Forumites,
Stephen NERY.

 

[stephensee]

Text 1 : "Two scramasaxes, war and hunt cutlass of the Francs. The long tang gave a big robustness at this redoubtable weapon".

Text 2 : "The handgraved blade of this Charlemagne scramasaxe is keep in the Aix-la-Chapelle Cathedral. It's the ancestor of the hunting knives up to the bowie knife".

 

[Ferrous Wheel]

good one!

Stephensee, thanks for sharinng that bit and pix on continental seaxes. They top ones look to be early models, as the later models generally have no pommels, jsut a wooden handle fixed on the tan,g like a japanese knife or sword.

Keith

 

[Daniel Koster]

Fuller or no fuller?

Cast your vote!

Dan

 

[Sylvrfalcn]

Haven't seen any originals with a fuller, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a nice touch. Still, I'm a muleheaded traditionalist, so put me down as "sans fuller".

Sarge

 

[Daniel Koster]

Originally posted by Sylvrfalcn
...Still, I'm a muleheaded traditionalist, so put me down as "sans fuller".Sarge

Ahem...

Sarge - your drawing has a fuller on it...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1825341

...and that's at least 50% of the reason it's still on there.


Here's one with a fuller:
(incidently, the inspiration for the wood-model's blade)

http://www.jelldragon.com/images/PBS1a_brzend.jpg

Yvsa posted it on another thread...


Personally, I like what Ferrous said:

On the topic of fullers on smaller seaxes, I'd say they did it for the same reason KaBar put one on the famed USMC fighting knife, --looks cool! My rule is this -- fullers on something weighing under a pound is merely an artistic feature.

 

[beoram]

Dan, Dave, Sarge, et al...

I think the fuller like on the one posted above is good. Sort of in the same place as a khukuri's aunlo bal. So what if we design it sort of like that? Plus, the kamis are likely to interpret it in this way anyway....

 

[Sylvrfalcn]

"Sarge - your drawing has a fuller on it... "

That there's a double edged "Sword of Shiva", waiting for Keith to fill in with etched runes.

Sarge

 

[Daniel Koster]

Gotcha...

Yes, there will probably be a Sword of Shiva on the knife, but hopefully above the fuller...(unless the fuller's ditched)

I was hoping to get some carving done instead (similar to Keith's seax knife) but I doubt it'll fly.

Best to just leave space for the Sword of Shiva and let 'em do what they know best.

 

[Ferrous Wheel]

Cool. I'll be doing some etching to my Ak bowie soon. It'll be a good warmup to the runic stuff on the seaxes. Or handle carving. I think it was Federico who also carved the handles of a khuk, karda, and chakma with a nice knotwork band. Something like that would be simple and striking. also add grip.

Keith

 

[Daniel Koster]

Votes so far:

Keep it: 3
Get rid of it: 1


Keep the votes coming...

 

[Yvsa]

Originally posted by pendentive
Votes so far:

Keep it: 3
Get rid of it: 1


Keep the votes coming...

Keep the narrow and somewhat deep fuller. After all it's on a lot of the old Seaxes.

I really like the idea of having Runes engraved there.

 

[Ferrous Wheel]

yep, me too. On the longer seaxes, someimes the whole runic alpabet appears on one side. The smith cut/chiseled channels in the steel, then hammered gold, silver, or copper alloy wire into the channels, much as the kamis do to inlay certain HI khuks.

Keith

 

[beoram]

So, Ferrous, are you going to engrave runes for us?

 

[Daniel Koster]

Here's what I'd like to see:

A fuller that is about 1/4"-5/16" wide and 1/8" deep. It would be located about 3/8" down from the top of the blade. In between the fuller and the top of the blade would be a row of runes.

Here's a sample pic (open to discussion):

I think that if Keith can provide the row of runes, either Dave or I can put them on the wood model and the kamis will do it.

We plan on sending color print-outs of all sorts of things - flat grind (zero edge), fuller, runes, sheath, etc.

Of course, it all comes down to what they choose, but we'll give it our best shot.

 

[Aardvark]

You know, I'm REALLY starting to like this thing.

 

[Ferrous Wheel]

Sure can. I know that you, Yvsa, and Sarge expressed an innterest in such. If not engraving, I can do a deep etch of the runes just as easily, and less chance of messing up (engraving can be tricky, what with whirring skittering bits...)

If the engravings will go in the fuller, the fuller might be made a bit wider. Otherwise, it is quite traditional to put the runes just below the small fuller.

Also, I think each seax should have the tiw rune (upward pointing arrow). The use of the Tiw rune consecrates the blade for justice and victory in battle, as Tiw (Zio, Tiwas, Tyr, Saxnot -- depending on the time and region) is the proto sword god. Odin replaced this ancient god at the head of the norse pantheon, as a more dynamic and flashy god was needed to head up the Migration Age (viking expansion and conquest begins). Tyr is also the patron god of the Thing, the "Great Council" of the Norse.

Coincidentally (not!) the Sword of Shiva on khuks acts as the Tiw rune on knives and swords of the North.

The tiw rune could either be struck in the steel like the kamis do with the HI logo and their signatures, or etched on later, or carved into the handle.

P.S. I don't own a recent khuk with the big "L.B." signatures (for Bura, for example), just ones with the smiths makers' mark. but I would have reservations having a seax with these S.N. or L.B. letters on it. once you add the runes for period effect, you'll still have these modern english letters anachronistically glaring from the steel. No big issue, just a cosmetic one.

keith

 

[Yvsa]

Originally posted by Aardvark
You know, I'm REALLY starting to like this thing.

Me Too!!!!!!!

I wasn't realy planning on getting one, but I may just have to providing they're what we're looking for.
A lot of it depends on when, how much and etc.