Hinderer warranty

[Cryogen]

I'm on the edge of buying an xm-18 3.5 inch but want to know how good their warranty is. I know they say lifetime warranty but sometimes companies will say pretty much anything is abuse and not cover it. How do they compare to CRK and Benchmade which have both treated me very well?

 

[bodog]

Depends on who fields your inquiry and what the issue is. From what I've personally seen combined with what I've read they'll only really cover issues with manufacturing excepting the detent. Maybe they'll send a new screw or something if you strip one. Blades breaking aren't covered, handles breaking aren't covered. They want and like the the lockbar to make about 5% contact with the tang. They want and like for there to be almost no detent whatsoever. Aside from that I can't imagine what could happen with that knife to need warranty service that you couldn't see as soon as you open the box.

It's not like other companies who only charge 30 bucks to replace a blade, will send an entire packet of screws, washers, and pocket clips any time you request them, or will cover their work if something minor has been modified to suit your personal tastes (not talking about adding bling, which they really want you to do). I've never heard of someone thinning the blade down and then breaking the pocket clip and still being covered, but I haven't heard the opposite either.

I do know from my own experience that Rick stands behind his product much more than his right hand man. The problem is getting his right hand man to stay the hell out of your issues and keeping Rick involved.

Add to the fact that his company has a presence on most major knife forums and they've made it explicitly clear that any criticism can and will be deleted makes sure that you won't see many downsides to owning an RHK. It's not like you can get snubbed by their company and air your grievances publicly to try to get the company to change their decision if something should go wrong. Most other companies allow at least some kind of public debate about the good and bad and most companies are receptive to public criticism and try to right wrongs. RHK is one of the few that immediately shuts down any kind of negative public comments.

Check out post 179 and subsequent post 184. This is one of the few threads where it didn't get moved to the Hinderer forum and promptly locked.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...their-Hinderer-knives?p=13587723#post13587723

 

[jill jackson]

I just bought a XM-18, 3.5 Bowie, because the price was right and they've been way over retail mostly before. No it doesn't flip like a bearing knife, with a stiff detent, it does about like any other knife with a flipper and washers. The detent is weak, but you can open it everytime with a slight flick of your wrist. Sometimes without any wrist movement, but make no mistake it's not going to open as easy as a bearing flipper. (I can open it no wrist but it takes a certain pull on the flipper, which isn't always so easy to do) Fit and finish are pretty good, no better than ZT at half the money though. Mine didn't come very sharp, but it got sharp on sticks fairly easy. Lock up is about 15%, very solid and the lock bar can't be pushed in much further at all. With the stonewash finish, I decided it will make a great user (now that I'm certain the knife will sharpen up fairly easy) Even at no mark up over retail, they're still hardly a great deal for what you get, IMO. But, I doubt you're going to have any problems with one, if you can live with the weak detent and don't mind paying that much for lesser steel (and flipping action) than you'd get with say a ZT 0562cf, go for it you can always sell it if you don't like it.

 

[nemesis]

I own several XMs (don't own any other folders actually) I have never needed warranty work done on any of them and I think the odds of needing it are slim but from what I have seen they will take care of any manufacturers defects and unlike other companies taking your knife apart is OK with them. I can't recommend hinderer enough

 

[bodog]

I own several XMs (don't own any other folders actually) I have never needed warranty work done on any of them and I think the odds of needing it are slim but from what I have seen they will take care of any manufacturers defects and unlike other companies taking your knife apart is OK with them. I can't recommend hinderer enough

Just to define things a little bit, how do you use your knives? Cutting cardboard and such or using it like it's marketed and chopping people out of cars or somewhere in the middle? Just curious if your knives perform in harsh use without needing warranty work because that's how they're marketed. If they do perform, I'd like to hear how and under what circumstances because actual hard use stories are kind of few and far between. There are quite a few stories about the knives opening when they shouldn't and cutting or coming close to cutting something they shouldn't.

 

[nemesis]

Just to define things a little bit, how do you use your knives? Cutting cardboard and such or using it like it's marketed and chopping people out of cars or somewhere in the middle? Just curious if your knives perform in harsh use without needing warranty work because that's how they're marketed. If they do perform, I'd like to hear how and under what circumstances because actual hard use stories are kind of few and far between. There are quite a few stories about the knives opening when they shouldn't and cutting or coming close to cutting something they shouldn't.

I'm a LEO, Volunteer Firefighter and live on a farm. I have used my XMs for cardboard, popping up staples, cutting twine string, rope, light prying, cutting braided electro rope on the farm (a nylon rope with wire strands) popping open cans while camping and hunting, skinning game (once I generally try to used a fixed blade) popping a stuck casing out of m4s and handguns, cutting seatbelt, firehose, making tent stakes. So I guess they haven't been abused but definitely well used and other than sharpening and cleaning I have had no issues at all and don't think I will ever own a folder other than an XM

 

[bodog]

I'm a LEO, Volunteer Firefighter and live on a farm. I have used my XMs for cardboard, popping up staples, cutting twine string, rope, light prying, cutting braided electro rope on the farm (a nylon rope with wire strands) popping open cans while camping and hunting, skinning game (once I generally try to used a fixed blade) popping a stuck casing out of m4s and handguns, cutting seatbelt, firehose, making tent stakes. So I guess they haven't been abused but definitely well used and other than sharpening and cleaning I have had no issues at all...

Sounds like legitimate work. Glad to hear someone's using them.

 

[jill jackson]

I'm using this one, mainly for cutting thorns and small branches, off trails. Works great.

 

[Cryogen]

So what I'm seeing here is that if I get one of the numerous bad apples with a nonexistent detent, I basically have to sell it and either try again or move on from Hinderer.

 

[nemesis]

So what I'm seeing here is that if I get one of the numerous bad apples with a nonexistent detent, I basically have to sell it and either try again or move on from Hinderer.

I have had 4, no detent issues at all so I can't speak to that part I honestly think the detent is more of "person one prefers this and person 2 prefers that." all of mine are/have been get 4s

 

[jill jackson]

Hinderer has stated the flipping action/detent is not a warranty problem. The knife is not set up like a bearing flipper, I don't see a problem with it myself. It has washers and flips like a folder with washers, it's set up to. Doesn't open the same way as a bearing flipper and I'd suppose if wanted something with a super strong detent, that flipped out really hard and fast every time, with no wrist movement, I'd stick with my bearing flippers.

 

[Cryogen]

So nothing to where it could easily accidentally open in your pocket? It has happened to me before and the end result was not good so you can see why I'm concerned about this

 

[jill jackson]

Tip down won't open, tip up clip it so the blade is against your pocket in the back. That's what I do with anything no matter what the detent.

 

[nemesis]

So nothing to where it could easily accidentally open in your pocket? It has happened to me before and the end result was not good so you can see why I'm concerned about this

Never had this happen, even when I carry it appendix in gym shorts while running and gymming. ETA I carry tip up so if the detent isn't holding the blade in what is?

 

[bodog]

So what I'm seeing here is that if I get one of the numerous bad apples with a nonexistent detent, I basically have to sell it and either try again or move on from Hinderer.

You have to realize that a non-existent detent isn't a bad apple to RHK. That's what they want. Some people are able to carry them in a way that it doesn't affect anything, some people cannot. There are literally too many reports of people getting hurt or almost hurt to ignore if that's what you're concerned about. They do purposefully make their knives to open extremely easily. You either want that and like it or not. They used to be stronger but from about Gen 3 on they started being almost useless. The only real reason they put them on the knife is to say that there is something there to hold the blade in, it doesn't matter if it doesn't actually do what they say it does. If you're going to carry one, make sure the blade is against something that will positively keep it in the handle because the detent alone absolutely will not. And no, that's definitely not a warranty issue. If you don't like the weak detent then you'll either have to live with it or sell it. And if you buy another one it will likely have the same issue. You have to go waaayyyy back to get one where the detent does what it's supposed to and you'll probably pay more than its worth just to get it. Even back then it was hit or miss if the detent works. I'm guessing now but I believe that's the real reason there's no detent. It's easier to say they built it that way for "inertia opening" purposes rather than dial in a good detent on each knife.

 

[ElConquistador]

bodog has hit the nail on the head. I've tried 3 different XM 3.5s. All had a light detent. All were perfect otherwise and very nice knives.

The Hinderer sub-forum makes me ill. Lots of gushing over how great Hinderers are and any negativity is immediately shut down. Even if someone has a legitimate question about a concern it's shut down by one of the forum cheerleaders.

Great knives but not for me I've decided.

 

[nemesis]

You have to realize that a non-existent detent isn't a bad apple to RHK. That's what they want. Some people are able to carry them in a way that it doesn't affect anything, some people cannot. There are literally too many reports of people getting hurt or almost hurt to ignore if that's what you're concerned about. They do purposefully make their knives to open extremely easily. You either want that and like it or not. They used to be stronger but from about Gen 3 on they started being almost useless. The only real reason they put them on the knife is to say that there is something there to hold the blade in, it doesn't matter if it doesn't actually do what they say it does. If you're going to carry one, make sure the blade is against something that will positively keep it in the handle because the detent alone absolutely will not. And no, that's definitely not a warranty issue. If you don't like the weak detent then you'll either have to live with it or sell it. And if you buy another one it will likely have the same issue. You have to go waaayyyy back to get one where the detent does what it's supposed to and you'll probably pay more than its worth just to get it. Even back then it was hit or miss if the detent works. I'm guessing now but I believe that's the real reason there's no detent. It's easier to say they built it that way for "inertia opening" purposes rather than dial in a good detent on each knife.

This is all quite contradictory to my experience with XMs. Never once have I had one open accidentally, not in a foot pursuit at work, not working on the farm, not crawling around in a structure fire with the fire department, and not clipped in the waist band of gym shorts while jogging, going to the gym or crossfit. While I see people complain about the detent regularly I have never seen a case of it being unsafe and have always assumed either I just got 4 unusually good detent or the people who complain have a different definition of a good detent than I. To me it should hold the blade in but not be an annoyance when I need to open the knife, Hinderers detents are within these boundaries. Guess I'll have to buy more in the name of research

 

[bodog]

This is all quite contradictory to my experience with XMs. Never once have I had one open accidentally, not in a foot pursuit at work, not working on the farm, not crawling around in a structure fire with the fire department, and not clipped in the waist band of gym shorts while jogging, going to the gym or crossfit. While I see people complain about the detent regularly I have never seen a case of it being unsafe and have always assumed either I just got 4 unusually good detent or the people who complain have a different definition of a good detent than I. To me it should hold the blade in but not be an annoyance when I need to open the knife, Hinderers detents are within these boundaries. Guess I'll have to buy more in the name of research

I have. I had the knife clipped in my cargo pocket. I was running after a bad guy. I ended up catching him and fighting with him to get zip ties on him. My actual cuffs were already on someone else. I walked the bad guy back to my unit and another officer tossed me his cuffs to replace the zip ties for the ride back to the station. I threw the cuffs on him and grabbed for my knife to cut the zip ties. I ended up cutting myself because the freaking knife was open in my pocket. The knife caused me more physical injury than the chase and fight with a bad guy.

I chalked it up to a fluke. Maybe it was the struggle. Maybe it was the chase. Regardless, had that knife cut the bad guy I would've been liable for a lawsuit. And you know it. Anyway, I tried to carry it for a couple days more. After tracking a fleeing subject for an hour or so, I felt what I thought was a tick or something crawling up my leg. I reached down to scratch my leg and felt that, again, the knife was open, had cut through my pocket, and was sitting there exposed to do whatever damage a sharp knife blade can do.

I can't carry the knife in my regular pocket becausey holster covers it. I can't carry it in my left hand pocket because the blade opens that way. Cargo and back pockets are obviously a no go because one of those showed me just how dangerous they are and there are youtube videos of how dangerous it is to carry it in a back pocket for the same reasons.

That's when I decided I had to stop carrying it and contacted the company. I was told specifically by Rob Orlando, in his not so gentle way, that they wanted their knives to open exactly that way. I posted the link to him saying that same thing in public, where he was at least somewhat professional.

I'm not the only one finding the same issues. If you don't have these issues, I'm truly glad. I did, others have, and Rick Hinderer and Rob Orlando have said that that's exactly what they want. Maybe you're the one with the knife that isn't normal? For whatever it's worth, I've not had these issues with any other knife, at all. Ever. Just this company's model made for first responders.

Be safe out there.

 

[Cryogen]

The detent is the only thing keeping me from really getting the knife, also don't really like the suppression of negative comments about the knife. I could always get it then sell it if it's not for me

 

[Stays Sharp]

At least the bubble broke on these it seems and now that it isn't the "new, hot $***" knife, you can get them at reasonable prices. It's not even talked about much anymore except in their subforum.... And yeah beware of those mods. Only gushing praise aloud.