Hogue making Benchmade clones?

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It seems to be a blatant rip-off of Benchmade's design, right down to the obscure, rarely used M680 blade material. Wonder how bad the infighting is, between the two companies.
 
JacksonKnives said:
Ritter is an asset to knife makers and users, and he deserves all the lauds we can give for his tireless work in Knife Rights, but his "control" of a variant of an existing, already-popular design (M. Pardue's Griptillian) is tenuous at best.

Ritter sold survival gear and wanted a modified Griptillian, Benchmade made it for him with Pardue's blessing, and before long Ritter built a livelihood around selling them.

Benchmade was under no obligation to keep Ritter's variant in production, unless there was a contract we haven't been told about.

Mel Pardue doesn't owe Doug Ritter anything, either.

Ritter could have worked with a designer on an actual update to his "perfect" survival knife, but he decided to ask Hogue to clone the design that was already making him money. I understand why, and I don't think it's illegal, but Benchmade/Pardue certainly look like the more gracious party when you consider all the facts and implications.

The Triage is, as far as I can tell, an entirely in-house design for Benchmade. Hogue copying it is even more shameful than what Benchmade did with Spyderco (collaborating and licensing a few features, then dropping the license but carrying the features to new models.)

Hogue makes nice knives, and it's a shame they don't strive for more originality in their design shop.
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Sounds like Ritter wanted to keep the knife in production and for some reason(s) (there are numerous possibilities) he decided to move the production from BM to Hogue. In the process, Hogue decided to update the design.

I'm curious, all politics aside, is the design being produced by Hogue more refined then the earlier one? Does it appear it might be less expensive to manufacture, without impacting function or product quality?
 
Stahlmann said:
Sounds like Ritter wanted to keep the knife in production and for some reason(s) (there are numerous possibilities) he decided to move the production from BM to Hogue. In the process, Hogue decided to update the design.

I'm curious, all politics aside, is the design being produced by Hogue more refined then the earlier one? Does it appear it might be less expensive to manufacture, without impacting function or product quality?
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The Hogue Ritter is better in almost every way than the Benchmade Ritter. Hogue uses 20CV vs. S30V on the Benchmade. Hogue uses G10 or G-Mascus milled scales vs. the Noryl injection plastic on the Benchmade. The ABLE lock uses tough Wolff springs and you can get replacement springs from Hogue. ABLE locks that I’ve handled are better finished than most AXIS locks without a break-in period. It’s hard to tell from pictures but the handle profile is different; the Hogue feels better in hand to me.

My only gripe against the Hogue is that the G10 is really a little too aggressive; there needs to be a smooth spot where the clip contacts the scale.

All in all the Hogue is significantly improved with some subtle style changes.
 
Hackenslash said:
The Hogue Ritter is better in almost every way than the Benchmade Ritter. Hogue uses 20CV vs. S30V on the Benchmade. Hogue uses G10 or G-Mascus milled scales vs. the Noryl injection plastic on the Benchmade. The ABLE lock uses tough Wolff springs and you can get replacement springs from Hogue. ABLE locks that I’ve handled are better finished than most AXIS locks without a break-in period. It’s hard to tell from pictures but the handle profile is different; the Hogue feels better in hand to me.

My only gripe against the Hogue is that the G10 is really a little too aggressive; there needs to be a smooth spot where the clip contacts the scale.

All in all the Hogue is significantly improved with some subtle style changes.
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The BM Ritter has been available in S30v and M390 which is the equal of 20cv and is the steel used in the first Hogue Ritters. Otherwise, I agree. The Hogue Ritter is better.
 
DMG said:
The BM Ritter has been available in S30v and M390 which is the equal of 20cv and is the steel used in the first Hogue Ritters. Otherwise, I agree. The Hogue Ritter is better.
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Both use N680 blade steel;( maybe they had some sprints in 20cv
 
It seems this thread had gone far astray from the OP. The BM Triage and Hogue Trauma are too close for me. Whether BM is cool with it or not is the only question. I for one will buy the BM version if I am ever so inclined.

The other BM controversy stuff... well I have my own views as a former LEO with over 20 years experience in the field. I will keep my opinions to myself in that matter and only say that a lot of things people see or hear get twisted to the right or left without offering the full context of the matter.
 
I just asked in the Benchmade forum. The Benchmade rep there says that they did not authorize the copy. This is disappointing as I really like many Hogue products.
 
Just realized like S-3 that the N680 steel is the same. Also, the almost-Besh-wedge-like opposing grind on the blunt-tip Trauma is a copy of the Benchmade original. (Maybe that's common on blunt-tip first-responder/dive knives, but it's too close for my taste.)

They did add an "O2 wrench" slot, so I can't say they're literally cloning the Triage. But yikes.

I started to wonder If Hogue didn't have some kind of backroom deal with Benchmade making knives for them. (It's happened in the past with other undisclosed brand collaborations, for example Spyderco Automatics.) Except that Hogue picked up the HK brand license (formerly held by Benchmade) a few years ago and is replicating the Axis lock on knives Benchmade clearly has nothing to do with. I can't imagine any way the Hogue Trauma could make sense as a "secret" business deal for Benchmade unless there's a scary percentage coming off a knife that's already pretty cheap.
 
H&K made a rescue knife called the Trama Karma if I remember correctly.
If Hogue bought the name and associated designs that came with H&K...it could explain the look alike. 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
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Stahlmann said:
Sounds like Ritter wanted to keep the knife in production and for some reason(s) (there are numerous possibilities) he decided to move the production from BM to Hogue. In the process, Hogue decided to update the design.
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Ritter wanted to keep the knife in production, definitely. Benchmade decided not to make it anymore. It's possible the relationship between Benchmade and KnifeRights went sour somewhere, or it was a simple tightening of the purse strings. But the "Ritter Grip" was always a generous gift to Ritter. It's Mel Pardue's design, slightly modified.

If Spyderco decided to stop making runs of the PM2 Tanto for BladeHQ, should BladeHQ go to Hogue and have them clone it?

Sharp & Fiery said:
H&K made a rescue knife called the Trama if I remember correctly.
If Hogue bought the name and associated designs that came with H&K...it could explain the look alike. 🤷🏼‍♂️
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I think you're just remembering at the same knife we're talking about. Hogue has been the maker for H&K since 2018 I think. I don't see the Trauma in this old BM/H&K catalogue, and the Benchmade Triage has been around for a long time.

That said, a H&K marketing connection would explain the choice of a less-frequently-used Bohler (Austrian) steel in both the Benchmade and Hogue version of the knife.

Edit: Hogue makes a version of the Triage/Trauma as a H&K-branded rescue knife called the "Karma."
Hogue's H&K OTF autos do seem to carry forward the design styling of the older Benchmade-produced H&K Turmoil, and I have no problem with that. Nor with Hogue continuing to use the funky blade profiles H&K knives have always had.
 
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Actually Hogue made the HK rescue knife called the Karma. And it looks very different than the Trauma which is listed as Hogue knife. As far as I remember, and I have had a few, BM never made a rescue knife in their HK line. I could be mistaken but I don't remember one. Hogue proved themselves that there is a way to make a rescue knife (see the HK Karma) without making it so obviously close in every detail to another company's product.

Many companies make rescue knife/tools. Victorinox, Spyderco and even SOG with the Trident (sort of). None of them look almost identical to another company's product. Hogue's is too close for my liking to be a coincidence.
 
JacksonKnives said:
Ritter wanted to keep the knife in production, definitely. Benchmade decided not to make it anymore. It's possible the relationship between Benchmade and KnifeRights went sour somewhere, or it was a simple tightening of the purse strings. But the "Ritter Grip" was always a generous gift to Ritter. It's Mel Pardue's design, slightly modified.

If Spyderco decided to stop making runs of the PM2 Tanto for BladeHQ, should BladeHQ go to Hogue and have them clone it?


I think you're just remembering at the same knife we're talking about. Hogue has been the maker for H&K since 2018 I think. I don't see the Trauma in this old BM/H&K catalogue, and the Benchmade Triage has been around for a long time.

That said, a H&K marketing connection would explain the choice of a less-frequently-used Bohler (Austrian) steel in both the Benchmade and Hogue version of the knife.

Edit: Hogue makes a version of the Triage/Trauma as a H&K-branded rescue knife called the "Karma."
Hogue's H&K OTF autos do seem to carry forward the design styling of the older Benchmade-produced H&K Turmoil, and I have no problem with that. Nor with Hogue continuing to use the funky blade profiles H&K knives have always had.
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mmyron1 said:
Actually Hogue made the HK rescue knife called the Karma. And it looks very different than the Trauma which is listed as Hogue knife. As far as I remember, and I have had a few, BM never made a rescue knife in their HK line. I could be mistaken but I don't remember one. Hogue proved themselves that there is a way to make a rescue knife (see the HK Karma) without making it so obviously close in every detail to another company's product.

Many companies make rescue knife/tools. Victorinox, Spyderco and even SOG with the Trident (sort of). None of them look almost identical to another company's product. Hogue's is too close for my liking to be a coincidence.
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That was my bad gentlemen. I meant the Karma. :/ Too many names flying about in this thread. 😂🤣😂🤣
 
Bare with me here gentleman...first photo is Hogue Trauma.
Second is the H@K Karma
And third is the benchmade triage.

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I’m thinking because Hogue kept some of the original angles of the Karma...and added a different blade shape and the butt finger choil. If they hold the rights to the H&K designs...their trauma is a modified version of the Karma.

The triage blade shape is not patented...neither is the Trauma blade shape...AFAIK.

I honestly don’t think BM would have a leg to stand on. Based on if it’s a modified H&K.

I have no dog in this fight, just seeing similarities to all three.
 
Hackenslash said:
View attachment 1575407
This is the Benchmade H&K rescue knife.
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Wow. I have never seen that one before. It still looks way different to me than the Triage/Trauma. Obvious similarities but not the same to me.

And after reading the response on the BM forum here it seems they are aware and either contemplating a move or just throwing their hands up and saying screw it.
 
I doubt this factors much, but isn't the triage originally based on the Stryker design that Alan Elishewitz licensed/sold to BM many years ago. Alan to my knowledge is one of the primary designers now for Hogue. I don't know how much of the rights to the design he retained. I know he did a mid-tech run of Strykers maybe 4 or 5 years ago?
 
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