How has your collection philosophy changed over time?

It appears this topic has strayed towards pricing. Obviously, price and aftermarket has influence on collecting philosophy, well for at least some. Interesting that price was usually third on most, including my order of importance. I guess any of us would be foolish to pass up a great deal even if we didn't like the maker or knife but new we could turn a quick profit.
Bob
 
Hi Bob,

Price is always a consideration. Third you say????

Question, if money was not an object would you collection look the same as it does now?

If not, then price is much higher on your list than you think.

WWG
 
supsme said:
Hello WWG... I'm still trying to figure why the dealer wouldn't purchase the consignment knife himself...seems to me that many of the dealers don't think the knife is worth asking price -25%. If anyone is selling a knife by way of consignment I think it would be a smart idea to ask what the dealer would pay for it outright.
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To clearify; As a dealer
you can buy or pay for a knife in hopes to sell it for a profit
or
consign a knife or not pay for it in hopes to make a profit.

for a consignment piece the only real expence to the dealer is taking a photo and posting it to his website and record keeping. A pretty sweet deal for the dealer, thus most dealers perfer to consign reather than buy.
 
Hi Kevin,

Unless you have a client who wants you to charge to much or to little.

You have a client who calls you 6-10 times a day to see if there is any movement on the knife or the hourly email.

You have a client who expects you to take the knife to shows (now you are doing more than just taking a photo) and if something happens to the knife he expects you to take full responsibility and pay him immediately. Which is why I do not take consignment knives to shows.

Sells the knife out from under you after you take the photo and put it on your web site (actually takes the photo and posts it on a forum he doesn't think you will see).

Yep a pretty sweet deal!

Theory is often different than practice.

WWG
 
I would think dealers really screw up the collector market when they become brokers...nothing invested seems to lead to blatant greed...general rule of thumb...if something is on consignment...it's not worth the price...
 
Supsme,

Have to disagree with you. Broker screws it up? Question where does the broker get their product from?

Wouldn't the responsibility lie with the person who consigns the knife with the broker. Knowing the knife will be sold for a loss they are the ones who chose to affect the price structure of custom knives.

How about those collectors who dump their knives because they need money?

How about those collectors who "turn and burn"? Buy a knife then get rid of it at a loss so they can have some money to put towards their next knife.

How about the maker who is having a bad show and sells their knives for under their retail price...just for that show. How do you think their customer base will react when they find out? What affect will this have on the after market?

95% of the knives I sell are at the makers price. I do not have sales, I do not have a discount page or put a line through the before price and show another price.

I will take back every knife I sell in trade and will give you what you paid for the knife towards another knife. What kind of affect do you think that has on the market.

Before you start lumping dealers all together and talking about the negative effect they can have on the market. You may want to do a little more homework.

Remember, a dealer can't buy a knife from a maker until the maker decides to sell it to them.

Remember, a dealer cannot get a knife on consignment until the collector contacts them.

Ultimately any knife you have bought whether it sells or trades for equal money, less money or more money...it is because of a decision you as the buyer made.

Oh yea "Blatant Greed"....you should try being a dealer for a couple years and see if those two words apply. Would this be different than those collectors who buy knives from the makers with the drawings and turn around and sell them for double or triple within the first 5 minutes of buying the knife initially?

WWG
 
WWG...Sorry if I lumped you with the bad apples...even being part of the discussion removes you from the rotten barrel...I think a dealer taking a knife on consignment removes the same pressure a dealer might face when he has to buy it outright...not a good thing...
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
My experience has shown me that new collectors buy a lot of the same knife (this is especially true with folders). Then buy multiples from the makers they like. Then they start to sell those whose work they are no longer interested in or the knife no longer "fits" in their collection.

As time goes buy the collector becomes a more sophisticated buyer, has better knowledge of what to look for. The purchases become fewer but more expensive. Ultimately many of these collectors find a certain amount of makers or a style they really like and start working with the maker directly.

This further slows down the amount of knives they will buy and increase the cost of each one.

The great thing about a collection is that ultimately it is yours. Your collection should bring you joy and pleasure. I would add being able to move piece or two when you need or want to and get close to your money back (+/- a little) will increase the joy you have for your collection.

WWG
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mmmph. I was gonna describe my answer to the title question, but Les just did a pretty good job.:D
 
Hi Supsme,

Everything may not be what it seems, this is probably true with most things in life.

I am partners with another dealer in a strictly consignment knife site. We started this site as a place for out clients to clean out their collections. We list the price that the client wants. There are some exceptional knives on the site and some really good prices.

You are correct in that there is little or no pressure with regards to selling the knives. I will tell you that we don't make a lot of money off of the web site. I usually use my percentage towards Christmas presents. No blatant greed here.

Just a web site for our clients to clear out their collections with minimal effort on their part. Our clients understand that more than likely they will take a loss. Most of the knives on this site are under $450. So this site is going to have minimal impact on the market overall.

Most custom knife dealers are good people. Dealers are an integral part of the custom knife market. Understand that it is a business. A profit has to be made in order to pay expenses. You would be amazed how much it costs to keep a $40,000 to $100,000 in inventory on hand.

WWG
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Kevin,

Unless you have a client who wants you to charge to much or to little.

You have a client who calls you 6-10 times a day to see if there is any movement on the knife or the hourly email.

You have a client who expects you to take the knife to shows (now you are doing more than just taking a photo) and if something happens to the knife he expects you to take full responsibility and pay him immediately. Which is why I do not take consignment knives to shows.

Sells the knife out from under you after you take the photo and put it on your web site (actually takes the photo and posts it on a forum he doesn't think you will see).

Yep a pretty sweet deal!

Theory is often different than practice.

WWG
Click to expand...

You must have somehow ended up with all the BAD consignment customers ;) :D
 
Hi Kevin,

After 20 years you pick up one or two. You would be amazed at some of the stories.

Im sure Im not alone with the customers from hell.

Fortunately the good far outweigh the bad. But there is always the 10%

WWG
 
WWG...All these years I've tried to figure weather I was the smartest stupid or the stupidest smart person I know...I think you should pick one and share the crown...
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Kevin,

After 20 years you pick up one or two. You would be amazed at some of the stories.

Im sure Im not alone with the customers from hell.

Fortunately the good far outweigh the bad. But there is always the 10%

WWG
Click to expand...

Though I sold my small chain of auto parts stores over 12 years ago, I still remember what asses some customers can be.

But the good ones inspire you to get up every morning and open the doors. And yep there are many stories good and bad.
 
Supsme,

You are being way to hard on yourself. Relax, it's only knives!

Kevin,

The good definitely outweighs the bad or I would probably be an O-6 in the Army!

WWG
 
supsme said:
WWG...Sorry if I lumped you with the bad apples...even being part of the discussion removes you from the rotten barrel...I think a dealer taking a knife on consignment removes the same pressure a dealer might face when he has to buy it outright...not a good thing...
Click to expand...

Supsme, you must have had a very bad experience in a consignment deal at some point for you to so negative towards them.

In my opinion and many other's they are a win/win situation for all involved.

Good for the dealer as previous mentioned because it helps his cash flow in having inventory he doesn't have to pay for until sold.

Good for the collector as he/her can generally get more than selling to the dealer outright as consignment fees probably average around 18-20% where as you are most likely going to have to discount the knife 30-35% to sell outright it to a dealer.

Good for a maker as he can tap a larger market in some cases where he may have a more obscure piece that has been hard to sell to a collector or a dealer outright. Obviously, makers do prefer to sell their pieces to dealers or collectors rather then to consign to help in their cash flow management.

WWG is correct in that both consignor and consignee must be fair and responsible for a successful consignment relationship, but that's true for any sales or business transaction in general.

As I said in an earlier post; each individual knife needs to considered to determined the best method for sale, however consignment has enabled me to move several knives to avoid a loss and evened profited after fees on a few. If examples would help I can share with you via PM.

And in my experience, the vast majority of knife dealers are honest, but do have businesses to run and must make a fair profit to do so. At times these pricing discussions seems to take on a tone that dealers are dishonest or greedy, simply not true in most cases.
 
I do not know if it is a philosophy or not; but I like to buy from makers that I like as a person. There are too many nice guys out there to buy from a jerk. I am all about quality and not quantity. With some knives I buy, I do have trading or selling in mind, and others are definitely bought with the intention of NEVER selling or trading. My taste in knives has become more refined too as I have become more knowledgable.
 
Kevin...win/win...you've lost money 80% of the time when you've consigned a knife to a dealer...who's the second win? For the record I've never consigned a knife...I collect custom knives for pleasure and part of that pleasure is value...losing money does not add to my pleasure...I would like to ask when the last time any seasoned collector has purchased a consignment knife from a dealer?
 
supsme said:
Kevin...win/win...you've lost money 80% of the time when you've consigned a knife to a dealer...who's the second win? For the record I've never consigned a knife...I collect custom knives for pleasure and part of that pleasure is value...losing money does not add to my pleasure...I would like to ask when the last time any seasoned collector has purchased a consignment knife from a dealer?
Click to expand...

Not sure if it was consignment, but have purchased a BUNCH of knives from Dave Harvey at Nordic.

Good deals, too.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
supsme said:
Kevin...win/win...you've lost money 80% of the time when you've consigned a knife to a dealer...who's the second win? For the record I've never consigned a knife...I collect custom knives for pleasure and part of that pleasure is value...losing money does not add to my pleasure...I would like to ask when the last time any seasoned collector has purchased a consignment knife from a dealer?
Click to expand...

First of all, you don't loss money on a sale until you receive less than you have invested in what you are selling.

Second of all, my consignment fees average around 12.5% not 20%.

Third, I will gladly share 12.5% of my profit with a dealer if he is able to find me a buyer, rather than me selling at a loss finding and selling to my own buyer.

Forth, usually a collector doesn't know when buying a knife from an on-line dealer that it is a consignment piece. And if it's a great knife why would a collector (except you) care.

Fifth, why do you think a consignment knife is inferior to a knife that the dealer owns? Consignment or striaght sale has nothing to do with the value or quality of the knife.

Sixth, I never said that consignment was the only or best way to sell a knife, but that the indivisual knife and circumstance dictates the best method for sale.

And last, I have detailed records of my collection documenting that from all the dozens of knives I have sold over the last 8 years, I currently have a ROI of 11.8%. Do you have that? Or do you even have a clue as to what you have made or lost? And I obviously take pleasure in collecting too or I wouldn't spend as much time on this forum.
 
STeven...What I trying to find out is why there always seems to be a loser somewhere along the line...I've collected different things in my life {cars, watches etc. the usual collector stuff} and I have never seen a collector base that EXPECTS to lose money...I can't quite figure who causes this mentality...my leanings are towards the dealers...
 
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