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If you go to my past threads and post, you will find that I'm always trying to help new collectors to buy and sell with profit in mind, because I know you can enjoy custom knife collecting without losing your ass.
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How has your collection philosophy changed over time?
- Thread starter Starkman1
- Start date
If you go to my past threads and post, you will find that I'm always trying to help new collectors to buy and sell with profit in mind, because I know you can enjoy custom knife collecting without losing your ass.
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
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Well...knives are tools...usually there is some depreciation on that, if that is what the knife is being sold as.
If a collector buys a knife with the purpose of using it, and does so(lightly), where condition would only play the smallest of considerations, and the maker is not a "hottie", a small loss is to be expected in order to make the sale. It is the "cherry on top" of the knife being desireable. Everyone likes a good deal.
My business partner refers to it as "the cost of owning and enjoying that particular knife".
Some knives, you just can't give away, sad, but true, and woe be to the collector that specializes in those.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
Kevin...How about the concept of making money instead of not trying to lose you ass.
STeven...Not talking about users...talking about "as new"
Here's my take...It start out with the words "LIST PRICE"...don't know how that started...it is the worst possible thing for the custom knife community...makers and collectors...makers should have a "PRICE" not a "LIST PRICE...and not a special "DEALER PRICE".. . a custom makers work should stand on its own two feet. If a makers work is well designed and well made it will bring the "ASKING PRICE"...anything that is custom made {especially anything "one off"}it has a "FAIR MARKET VALUE"... this price should be determined by the buyers...including the dealers...if a dealer buys a knife at "MARKET VALUE" he should be able to "MARK IT UP" and therefore increase the MARKET VALUE" ... something is backwards here...
STeven...Not talking about users...talking about "as new"
Here's my take...It start out with the words "LIST PRICE"...don't know how that started...it is the worst possible thing for the custom knife community...makers and collectors...makers should have a "PRICE" not a "LIST PRICE...and not a special "DEALER PRICE".. . a custom makers work should stand on its own two feet. If a makers work is well designed and well made it will bring the "ASKING PRICE"...anything that is custom made {especially anything "one off"}it has a "FAIR MARKET VALUE"... this price should be determined by the buyers...including the dealers...if a dealer buys a knife at "MARKET VALUE" he should be able to "MARK IT UP" and therefore increase the MARKET VALUE" ... something is backwards here...
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Obviously, you did not understand my last two post.
So how many custom knives have you sold, and what's your ROI?
Les Robertson
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Supsme,
Seems like you are coming from the factory knife sector. Where there is MSRP, then Wholesale price, then super dealer price. This is a market where the MSRP is an illusion as few if any pay that price.
Custom knife pricing structure does not work that way. There is the makers price. Some dealers may add a premium to a particular knife, however most don't warrant this.
The custom knife market also has two seperate markets. That is the "Primary" Market which is limited to sales directly from the maker. The "After Market" which includes all sellers of custom knives (except the maker) to include dealers.
It is the after market where people really find out what a knife is worth...at that particular moment, for that particular knife, with that particular buyer and seller. This is fair market price for this knife...until a similar one is sold.
This is why dealers will have an advantage over all but the most savvy collectors. They pay attention to these transactions. Store them for future deals. I have gone so far as to give particular aspects of the custom knife market given weighted values to variables and coefficients of these aspects.
In the after market the sale price may be equal to, above or below the makers price.
This is why it is incumbent upon the collector to know the makers position in the market place to be able to determine if the price the maker is asking a "fair" price. Most collectors never take time to do this. Subsequently the majority of the knives they sell in the after market they take loss on.
There is no great scheme to defraud or mislead the buyers of custom knives. With regards to pricing it seems at best an inexact science to the majority of those involved in it.
Ultimately, in a free market an item is only worth what someone else is willing to pay. If the free market will pay an ever increasing price for a particular commodity (take gold for instance) the price will go up. If the free market is no longer interested in a product you will find that item in discount stores and flea markets world wide.
Ultimately any knife you buy is only worth the money being asked if "YOU" determine that to be the case. Just as any knife you sell can only be sold once you determine that "YOU" will accept the buyers offer.
The more you know about the custom knife market the better purchases you will make.
WWG
Seems like you are coming from the factory knife sector. Where there is MSRP, then Wholesale price, then super dealer price. This is a market where the MSRP is an illusion as few if any pay that price.
Custom knife pricing structure does not work that way. There is the makers price. Some dealers may add a premium to a particular knife, however most don't warrant this.
The custom knife market also has two seperate markets. That is the "Primary" Market which is limited to sales directly from the maker. The "After Market" which includes all sellers of custom knives (except the maker) to include dealers.
It is the after market where people really find out what a knife is worth...at that particular moment, for that particular knife, with that particular buyer and seller. This is fair market price for this knife...until a similar one is sold.
This is why dealers will have an advantage over all but the most savvy collectors. They pay attention to these transactions. Store them for future deals. I have gone so far as to give particular aspects of the custom knife market given weighted values to variables and coefficients of these aspects.
In the after market the sale price may be equal to, above or below the makers price.
This is why it is incumbent upon the collector to know the makers position in the market place to be able to determine if the price the maker is asking a "fair" price. Most collectors never take time to do this. Subsequently the majority of the knives they sell in the after market they take loss on.
There is no great scheme to defraud or mislead the buyers of custom knives. With regards to pricing it seems at best an inexact science to the majority of those involved in it.
Ultimately, in a free market an item is only worth what someone else is willing to pay. If the free market will pay an ever increasing price for a particular commodity (take gold for instance) the price will go up. If the free market is no longer interested in a product you will find that item in discount stores and flea markets world wide.
Ultimately any knife you buy is only worth the money being asked if "YOU" determine that to be the case. Just as any knife you sell can only be sold once you determine that "YOU" will accept the buyers offer.
The more you know about the custom knife market the better purchases you will make.
WWG
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Good explanation... :thumbup:
WWG...From reading some of your prior postings it seems that you to think that there are several prices..."RETAIL PRICE"..."MAKERS PRICE"..."DEALER PRICE"...
Kevin...every knife that I have sold was a loser {only about 6 or 7}...the knives that I have in my modest collection{right now 22] are worth somewhat more than I invested...the only reason being that I have 3 John Young knives and 1 SR Johnson that I bought directly from the makers...
Kevin...every knife that I have sold was a loser {only about 6 or 7}...the knives that I have in my modest collection{right now 22] are worth somewhat more than I invested...the only reason being that I have 3 John Young knives and 1 SR Johnson that I bought directly from the makers...
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That's the concept, you have the ones you make 40% on and you have the ones you lose 20% on. At the end of the day, you try to maintain 10-20% ROI. Not a bad return for a collector doing something you love.
Les Robertson
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Supsme,
Re-read the post.
The price of anything is an aberration. Price is determined by the degree of demand that can be created for a product. Capital outlay may have little to do with the "retail" price.
With regards to custom knives: Maker Price = Retail Price (such as it is).
With regards to my business 98% of my knives are at the Makers Price = Retail Price= Dealer Price.
After market prices (re-read post).
Are you concerned that you are over paying for your Johnson and Young knives?
What other knives are in your collection.
WWG
Re-read the post.
The price of anything is an aberration. Price is determined by the degree of demand that can be created for a product. Capital outlay may have little to do with the "retail" price.
With regards to custom knives: Maker Price = Retail Price (such as it is).
With regards to my business 98% of my knives are at the Makers Price = Retail Price= Dealer Price.
After market prices (re-read post).
Are you concerned that you are over paying for your Johnson and Young knives?
What other knives are in your collection.
WWG
Les Robertson
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Hi Supsme,
So the knives you bought from dealers that were losers...whose fault was that?
WWG
So the knives you bought from dealers that were losers...whose fault was that?
WWG
Les Robertson
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Supsme,
THE PRICE is only the price when someone will sell the item for the price that someone is willing to pay for it.
So no matter what, the price is the price! Now cost...that is an entirely different matter.
So a dealer did you wrong because you didn't know that the price is the price...unless it isn't the price.
Wow, this is almost Zen like. A price is a price even when it is not the price!
WWG
THE PRICE is only the price when someone will sell the item for the price that someone is willing to pay for it.
So no matter what, the price is the price! Now cost...that is an entirely different matter.
So a dealer did you wrong because you didn't know that the price is the price...unless it isn't the price.
Wow, this is almost Zen like. A price is a price even when it is not the price!
WWG
Les Robertson
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Sup,
You have multi=tiered pricing all around you every day.
Your seem to have difficulty doing the "homework". With regards to buying custom knives this should include both primary and after market prices.
Sorry, your "One Price" concept is not going to fly.
WWG
You have multi=tiered pricing all around you every day.
Your seem to have difficulty doing the "homework". With regards to buying custom knives this should include both primary and after market prices.
Sorry, your "One Price" concept is not going to fly.
WWG
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supsme - Why all the bitterness towards purveyors? Did they they hold a gun to your head and force you to buy their knives? Did they force you to sell your knives at a loss?
Why not just chalk your losses up as learning experiences and make better decisions on knife purchases in the future. If you have a "thing" against purveyors, simply choose not to do business with them.
Life's too short. Hobbies should be enjoyable. I think we're fortunate to have a hobby in which we can make some, if not all of our money back down the road. Try that with golf.
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supsme - Why all the bitterness towards purveyors? Did they they hold a gun to your head and force you to buy their knives? Did they force you to sell your knives at a loss?
Why not just chalk your losses up as learning experiences and make better decisions on knife purchases in the future. If you have a "thing" against purveyors, simply choose not to do business with them.
Life's too short. Hobbies should be enjoyable. I think we're fortunate to have a hobby in which we can make some, if not all of our money back down the road. Try that with golf.
Well said.
Supsme,
Dealers provide a service and make a profit for doing so.
Some who love customs knives don't have access to them other than the internet dealers (overseas collectors for example) and they don't mind paying for this access. If you don't want to pay the dealer's prices don't buy. You don't have to make them out to be crooks.
Les Robertson
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Ok Suspme,
How do you propose to have one price through out the entire life of any particular knife.
Please provide your plan in detail to keep the knife from either dropping in price or going up in price in the after market.
I'll even let you remove the custom knife dealers from the equation. Hell there are only about 10 who only sell custom knives. The rest are just knife dealers. Is this where your confusion comes from? You are buying knives from knife dealers instead of Custom Knife Dealers? Ok so there is no "dealer" price.
Lets focus on the thousands of collectors who sell or trade their knives in the after market.
So there is one price...makers price. After that the price the collector who got the knife from the maker will sell it at Maker +/- Price? How do you determine that price. What is the name for that price?
Take a minute to noodle this while you finish your fries.
You know the former Soviet Union was really big on "one price".
How do you propose to have one price through out the entire life of any particular knife.
Please provide your plan in detail to keep the knife from either dropping in price or going up in price in the after market.
I'll even let you remove the custom knife dealers from the equation. Hell there are only about 10 who only sell custom knives. The rest are just knife dealers. Is this where your confusion comes from? You are buying knives from knife dealers instead of Custom Knife Dealers? Ok so there is no "dealer" price.
Lets focus on the thousands of collectors who sell or trade their knives in the after market.
So there is one price...makers price. After that the price the collector who got the knife from the maker will sell it at Maker +/- Price? How do you determine that price. What is the name for that price?
Take a minute to noodle this while you finish your fries.
You know the former Soviet Union was really big on "one price".
jdm61
itinerant metal pounder
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I don't know if Less mentioned this too or not, but i would like to add that there is another segmentationof the custom marketbetween user knives and collector/investment knives. This can get blurrred at some points. Lots of very established makers still make "field grade" knives, but the majority of them will likely never be used.