How has your collection philosophy changed over time?

Senator and Kevin,

Well said.

No matter what the profession or service it only exists because there is a consumer who needs it or wants it.

Supply and Demand.

Of course with custom knives I try to create a demand and then supply the knives.

Supsme, have you looked at my Vanguard knives? Knives sold exclusively through me. This my be your Nirvana....a veritable Utopia!

There is no maker price nor is there a dealer price....there is only one price.

The price listed on my site! No haggling, no wondering if you can get it cheaper from another dealer, no premium to be paid on top of the makers price. There is only one price.....well until they hit the after market and those pesky collectors like you who try and sell them. Then there is a whole different price.

SO it is YOU who skews the perfect price structure that the Vanguard Knives create. Give back those fries!


Two excellent books to read are:

The New Law of Demand and Supply by Rick Kash

Pricing on Purpose by Ronald Barker (Very in depth not for the Business Dilettante)

Another book you may be interested in reading since you seem to have difficulty selling your knives at a profit.

ROI Selling by Michael Nick and Kurt Koenig. Geared towards a business but good stuff in the book for any one trying to sell something at a profit.

BTW, didn't you read the HUGE thread here that says you are not supposed to buy custom knives and expect to make money? Most on this very forum agree you should buy high and sell low...when it comes to custom knives.

Don't know about you, but that makes no sense to me.

WWG
 
WWG...Never said or implied one price for entire life of a knife...hope most go up in value as the Maker gets more reconized...As long as dealers are doing the PR work for the Makers {Big mistake...especially for good newbie makers} it's like letting the foxes guard the chicken coop...No offense COOP...
 
Supsme, just get it off your chest, what dealers did what to you to make you bash all dealers so much. :confused:
 
jdm61 said:
I don't know if Less mentioned this too or not, but i would like to add that there is another segmentationof the custom marketbetween user knives and collector/investment knives. This can get blurrred at some points. Lots of very established makers still make "field grade" knives, but the majority of them will likely never be used.
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I agree and I think it is too bad more customs don't get used, even higher end customs. IMHO I would think every maker wants to see some of his knives get used in some fashion to see how they perform. This fall, I hope to chronicle the use of a few of my knives during the hunting season, and I don't consider them field grade.
Bob
 
Supsme

As long as dealers are doing the PR work for the Makers {Big mistake...especially for good newbie makers} it's like letting the foxes guard the chicken coop..
Click to expand...

Do really believe this stuff you right or just one to many adult beverages tonight.

If you were a new knife maker, how would you market yourself. Again, we will take the dealers out of the equation.

Or are you going to pass on answering this question as well. Since you obviously have difficulty with the "Price" question.

Ok, so you are a new maker...a Sole Proprietorship. As a new business you will have very limited capital. As such you will more than likely have to get loans to pay for your marketing. Of course you will have to put up collateral, the car perhaps (if it is paid off). Perhaps a home equity line of credit?

So first where would you get the money to launch your marketing campaign. Next which form(s) of advertising will offer you the best chance to meet potential buyers.

So give me a quick marketing plan to show the world you build better mouse trap.

Your answer is going to put you on a very slippery slope, so be careful.

BTW...the answer is incredibly simple and won't cost you a dime in out of pocket expense.

Sorry..go ahead.

WWG
 
Starkman1 said:
I agree and I think it is too bad more customs don't get used, even higher end customs. IMHO I would think every maker wants to see some of his knives get used in some fashion to see how they perform. This fall, I hope to chronicle the use of a few of my knives during the hunting season, and I don't consider them field grade.
Bob
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The number that I hear bandied about the most as the dividing line between users and non-users is $500. But then again, John Fitch tells a story about seeing an older Moran stuck in a ham at a country store and the owner clearly knew what he had and wasn't going to sell it no way no how...lol
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Supsme



Do really believe this stuff you right or just one to many adult beverages tonight.

If you were a new knife maker, how would you market yourself. Again, we will take the dealers out of the equation.

Or are you going to pass on answering this question as well. Since you obviously have difficulty with the "Price" question.

Ok, so you are a new maker...a Sole Proprietorship. As a new business you will have very limited capital. As such you will more than likely have to get loans to pay for your marketing. Of course you will have to put up collateral, the car perhaps (if it is paid off). Perhaps a home equity line of credit?

So first where would you get the money to launch your marketing campaign. Next which form(s) of advertising will offer you the best chance to meet potential buyers.

So give me a quick marketing plan to show the world you build better mouse trap.

Your answer is going to put you on a very slippery slope, so be careful.

BTW...the answer is incredibly simple and won't cost you a dime in out of pocket expense.

Sorry..go ahead.

WWG
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Agreed, Les. I just downloaded the rate sheet for Blade and even with my 15% discount for providing camra ready art. I would have a tough time justifying the cost of 12 months worth of eventhe smallest 1/12 page display ad at the rate I produce knives.
 
Hi Bob,

Here is the duality of custom knives. They are far and away the best knives to actually use in the field. However, using them lowers their value in the after market.

So while numerous individuals on this forum have stated that custom knives are not bought for investment purposes and that they buy what they like. If you are buying a "user" knife why don't they use them?

The answer...because when they want to sell or trade the knife in the future they know it will not be worth what they paid for it.

Next time your at a knife show, ask a maker to pull the knife out of their pocket. You will be stunned at how often you find not only do they not have one of theirs or worse its not even a custom knife!

It's like buying a Chevy from a guy who drives a Ford to work.

Makes me wonder if their knives aren't good enough for them to use, will it be good enough for me to use?

I Carry a Phil Boguszweski LDC-10. He made the knife from my design. Before that I carried a Kit Carson Medium Model 4.

WWG
 
jdm61 said:
The number that I hear bandied about the most as the dividing line between users and non-users is $500. But then again, John Fitch tells a story about seeing an older Moran stuck in a ham at a country store and the owner clearly knew what he had and wasn't going to sell it no way no how...lol
Click to expand...

Right on! That knife will obviously never be sold and passed from generation to generation, who knows, probably what Mr. Moran intended for that knife. I don't think I can get a decent fighter or Bowie from my favorite maker near the $500.00 range.....now a hunter is a different story.
Bob
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Bob,

Here is the duality of custom knives. They are far and away the best knives to actually use in the field. However, using them lowers their value in the after market.

So while numerous individuals on this forum have stated that custom knives are not bought for investment purposes and that they buy what they like. If you are buying a "user" knife why don't they use them?

The answer...because when they want to sell or trade the knife in the future they know it will not be worth what they paid for it.

Next time your at a knife show, ask a maker to pull the knife out of their pocket. You will be stunned at how often you find not only do they not have one of theirs or worse its not even a custom knife!

It's like buying a Chevy from a guy who drives a Ford to work.

Makes me wonder if their knives aren't good enough for them to use, will it be good enough for me to use?

I Carry a Phil Boguszweski LDC-10. He made the knife from my design. Before that I carried a Kit Carson Medium Model 4.

WWG
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I carry a Caffrey EBK or a Mark Sentz folder.
 
JDM,

Please don't write any more, Im waiting for Suspme's marketing plan.

On the plus side you are a professional photographer, so getting the camera ready art to Blade wouldn't cost you anything.

Imagine if you weren't....that could get kind of expensive as well. Cost of the knife, the photography, shipping, insurance, in ability to sell the knife because our good buddy Coop is taking he photo!

Ok, shh no more hints.

WWG
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
JDM,

Please don't write any more, Im waiting for Suspme's marketing plan.

On the plus side you are a professional photographer, so getting the camera ready art to Blade wouldn't cost you anything.

Imagine if you weren't....that could get kind of expensive as well. Cost of the knife, the photography, shipping, insurance, in ability to sell the knife because our good buddy Coop is taking he photo!

Ok, shh no more hints.

WWG
Click to expand...

LOL...I will still have to pay Coop for good pictures. I just have access to a large art department to actually put together a professional looking ad.
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Supsme,

THE PRICE is only the price when someone will sell the item for the price that someone is willing to pay for it.

So no matter what, the price is the price! Now cost...that is an entirely different matter.

So a dealer did you wrong because you didn't know that the price is the price...unless it isn't the price.

Wow, this is almost Zen like. A price is a price even when it is not the price!

:D

WWG
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Knife dealer HALL OF FAME material
 
Supsme,

As I suspected. You bought knives from a dealer, sold them and lost money.

Regardless of what you write you feel you were taken advantage of because the knives you sold lost money.

Oh, almost forgot. How are you going to help the new makers market their knives?

WWG
 
Ok, Les.....since he is not going to answer your question, I will start babbling again.:D For someone in my position, i get the feeling that a lot of what I do is just to establish myself for later. You said that I could upcharge $25 for stag or ironwood. Now that $25 might cover the additional cost of a nice piece of ironwood, but I haven't priced stag lately,so i don't know if it would cover the cost there. It presents me with a quandry as to why I would use these materials. Would the sole purpose be to prduce a more desirable "fancier" knife so that I can sell one like that and get my name out there as an "up and comer"? I have the same problem with the sheaths. Using the Treestump sheath at $45 and the $175 price on a hunter, that leaves me with $130 for the knife. I guess I could try to find a cheaper pouch sheath, but I am as nervous about going too cheap as I was about offering my earlier knives for sale at ANY price. The bar has been set quite high as far as quality goes in forged blades and I guess I have skipped the part where you sell your early "so-so" looking knives at the local gun show. What is a poor boy to do? lol
Just so you have a bit of perspective in answering these silly newbie questions, here is the flawed bowie that i sold in BB. You will have to excuse my poor photo skills which make the blade look a but foreshortened and burn your retinas with glare:D Like I said, I offered if for $160 with no sheath and it sold in less than 10 minutes. Good for my self confidence because it was only the second knife I have ever sold, but not a good benchmark because a lot of folks will buy something that isn't exactly perfect as long as it is CHEAP!!!! But being the WalMart of the custom forged knife biz will not get me where I want to be eventually......lol
 
Pricing is always based on perception, brand image if you will. Is a Ferrari really worth $200,000 more than a Corvette? If it was only $50,000 more, would that cause you to change your opinion? Would you prefer to have a brand new, top of the line, just the way you want it, pickup truck? In someone else's mind, their perception of "saving the planet" would cause them to prefer a Toyota Prius. They might even be happy to pay above "List Price" to get one.

This of course begs the question: What actually is the item's TRUE value? Which is simply unanswerable to everyone's complete satisfaction.
 
ptgdvc said:
Pricing is always based on perception, brand image if you will. Is a Ferrari really worth $200,000 more than a Corvette? If it was only $50,000 more, would that cause you to change your opinion? Would you prefer to have a brand new, top of the line, just the way you want it, pickup truck? In someone else's mind, their perception of "saving the planet" would cause them to prefer a Toyota Prius. They might even be happy to pay above "List Price" to get one.

This of course begs the question: What actually is the item's TRUE value? Which is simply unanswerable to everyone's complete satisfaction.
Click to expand...

Hi Peter.

One thing for sure, for horsepower per dollar Corvette (zo6) is light years ahead of Ferrari or any other sports car in the world.
 
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