How I got a 2010 Forum Moose/A review of Queen Cutlery

My two cents worth...I'm not a terribly picky person. Small imperfections don't bother me a bit. I carry and use knives with a little blade wobble all the time. I expect a little play in production knives just due to manufacturing tolerances. But these are supposed to be knives, not battleaxes. I already have cold chisels in my tool box, I don't need a folding cold chisel to carry in my pocket.

I agree with ya 100% on everything, (includin' the stuff in between the ...) ya said.

I have all of the Forum knives with my two current favorites bein' the 2008 and the 2009, not a one came perfect.

The sharpest one was the first, the CSC Ring Opener, the Pen blade was hair poppin' sharp outta the box, every single knife after that had to be resharpened by me but ya know what? I enjoyed the reprofilin' and resharpenin', it was therapeutic. :D

Still even with burnt tips on the 2008 knife and the imperfections on the 2010, I still think I've been lucky that none of the problems warranted sendin' any of the knives back.

I don't have a lot of customs but the ones I do are perfect to me and reflect the price paid for 'em, than again I use my production folders more frequently and tend to baby my customs, (folders at least) more so.

If I had to rate my forum knives in order of quality control and F&F it would look like this.

CSC 2006 Ring Opener

Northwoods 2008 medium Stockman, (my favorite to date)

Queen/S&M 2009 Barlow, (my 2nd favorite)

CSC 2007 Cannitler

Queen 2010 Moose

Now every knife I've had has had some issue but I wouldn't trade any of 'em just because I feel like I had a hand in designin' that years knife and that's the best kinda satisfaction you could ever get.:thumbup::D
 
Guess i'm lucky again. I bought one of Billy's Queen made, Winchester pattern, Ebony/1095 "Vintage" Swell Center Moose knives back when he first got them.
No light visible between springs/liners, jet black ebony, no cracks, not even tiny hairlines, and the 1095 takes a great edge and holds it well.
Springs were crazy stiff to begin with ( 20+ tries and broken nails to get a blade open), but since then they have 'softened' enough to now simply be stiff and open on first try. Yep, this one is a great knife.
I have wondered if it depends on which Queen employee or employees actually works on the knife, and mine was done by the old timer with 30+ years experience and pride in his workmanship.
how else can one explain the hit and miss with Queen made knives because some of them come out just right ?
roland
 
Last edited:
...That actually explains a lot about what comes out of the factory. After seeing the video, I agree completely that a good tuneup on the machines would probably go a long way towards a QC remedy.

Robert

Havin' been a mechanic in a high speed production facility for many years when it comes to tunin' up and maintainin' the production equipment, ya rarely get time to work on it.

With production schedules what they are the equipment runs 24/7 in most facilities, the only time ya get to work on anything is when something breaks, even then there's a production manager leanin' over ya every few minutes askin' ya when yer gonna be done?

He's got 20 people standin' there doin' nuthin', gettin' paid while yer keepin' his machine down.

The blame for that situation goes to the Sales department for sellin' beyond the limitations of the equipment and the management that allows them to do so under the guise of makin' more money for the company but at the expense of QC and a quality product.

JMHO
 
Here's my Vintage Knives version:

oct2010002-5.jpg


Blades centered:

oct2010001-6.jpg


Tight liners & springs & scales:

oct2010003-5.jpg


How I carry it:

oct2010004-6.jpg


roland
 
i think this knife is a beauty and would love to have one of these 2010 Forum knives. beautiful ebony, fine looking swedges, useful blades. man, i wish i'd been checking in back then to get in on this one.
 
My Vintage Knives Model 1902 Moose is a GREAT knife! Blades are centered, no light through the springs oir spacers, and blades that take and hold a crazy-sharp edge. Had to reprofile them to begin with, but then I usually do that to all my using knives! I'm carrying this one in my pocket today.

Ron

SDC10280.jpg

SDC10279.jpg
 
Last edited:
The inconsistency is probably the most aggravating part of it all. If all we ever saw were substandard knives from company ABC then we'd know to go elsewhere and save ourselves the disappointment. But when it starts to feel like a crapshoot as to whether or not you'll get a knife you find satisfactory (whatever standard that may mean to each of us), well, that's a lousy thing.

I think it is implicitly understood by most that it's not easy to make knives like these to a high standard in the USA while maintaining reasonable prices. However, that only goes so far to soothing the sting when you get a lemon and see that others got a good one. When it comes to a small run special edition like a forum knife, well, that just makes the hit or miss nature of certain manufacturers that much more maddening.

I'm waiting on a replacement knife from Queen. Can't get another example of the knife I originally had from them because it's out of production so I'll receive another model. Can't say this thread made me feel much better about the hope of getting the level of quality that I expected in the first place but I'm staying optimistic at this point because the alternative is too depressing.


-- Nate
 
Havin' been a mechanic in a high speed production facility for many years when it comes to tunin' up and maintainin' the production equipment, ya rarely get time to work on it.

With production schedules what they are the equipment runs 24/7 in most facilities, the only time ya get to work on anything is when something breaks, even then there's a production manager leanin' over ya every few minutes askin' ya when yer gonna be done?

He's got 20 people standin' there doin' nuthin', gettin' paid while yer keepin' his machine down.

The blame for that situation goes to the Sales department for sellin' beyond the limitations of the equipment and the management that allows them to do so under the guise of makin' more money for the company but at the expense of QC and a quality product.

JMHO

Ted,
I work for the Service Division of a very large manufacturing company.
We make and sell very expensive tools that work 24/7.
The expectation of the buyer, is that the tools will work 24/7, and heaven help us if we have downtime on a tool.

There is a clear understanding between us the service provider and the tool owner that there has to be Preventative Maintence at fixed times, and these times must be built into their production schedule.
There is no way around it, or you get the chaos you have discribed.
And at a certain point, if your tools cannot be bought up to high quality, scrap them and get new tools.

Queen has to look at both their tools and work force, and increase their QC.
 
Ted,
I work for the Service Division of a very large manufacturing company.
We make and sell very expensive tools that work 24/7.
The expectation of the buyer, is that the tools will work 24/7, and heaven help us if we have downtime on a tool.

There is a clear understanding between us the service provider and the tool owner that there has to be Preventative Maintence at fixed times, and these times must be built into their production schedule.
There is no way around it, or you get the chaos you have discribed.
And at a certain point, if your tools cannot be bought up to high quality, scrap them and get new tools.

Queen has to look at both their tools and work force, and increase their QC.

I later went to work for a company that made wet benches for the Semiconducter industry at an average of $1-$3 million a bench and a build time of 4-6 weeks a bench once the prints were approved, we took lotsa time to QC the benches.

We guaranteed 100% up time for 1 year, that meant placin' a technician on site for a year and ya know they rarely allowed our guys to do PMs accordin' to the PM schedules we laid out in the service manuals and when the consistency and through put of the product began to vary after a year of runnin' nonstop they would call the service department and scream bloody murder 'cause the machine was down.

We started a trainin' center for their own technicians at our plant so after the year was up and when they became responsible for their own pms all of a sudden they had time.

We still got calls for service 'cause when the chips were flyin' and they were makin' money they would fore-go the pms and buy new equipment, the benches paid for themselves within' 12 weeks back then.

The problems always been with production people bowin' to the presure from the Sales Dept. and upper managment wantin' to meet the promises made to share holders by the CEO.

The mechanics/tecnicians always always got blamed for equipment failures, especially when it came time to dealin' with outdated equipment.

Smaller companies always seemed to make time for pms, their capital investments were in the equipment and without them they made no profit but in my experience the bigger the company the harder it was to keep up on pms and keep a close tabs on QC, their only interest was the bottom line and how much they'ii make, all at the cost of providin' a quality product.

What's the profit margin on a foldin' pocket knife, how many lower priced mediocre quality knives do they have to sell versus how many higher priced better quality, better qc'd knife and still make a profit.

The guys who usually start the company have a vested interest in the quality of their product, their names are usually on it but when they go public they lose control and the people runnin' the company just wanna see their profit margins rise, even at the expense of product quality and employee satisfaction.

Well my medicines kickin' in and I seem to be ramblin' so good night dear friends, may all your knives be sharp and your blades true.
 
Last edited:
There is a clear understanding between us the service provider and the tool owner that there has to be Preventative Maintence at fixed times, and these times must be built into their production schedule.
There is no way around it, or you get the chaos you have discribed.
And at a certain point, if your tools cannot be bought up to high quality, scrap them and get new tools.

Queen has to look at both their tools and work force, and increase their QC.

I was going to say something similar, but you said it in a much more concise manner.

As a contractor, part of my duty is to make sure my tools are up to speed. If my compressors paint guns need seals (or a breakdown cleaning), my painters can't put on the type of finish I want.

If my nail guns need maintenance and don't shoot correctly, I have bent nails, dents in fine molding (read: ruined, expensive materials), and slower production times and reworking of the woodwork.

If my saws need to be cleaned, oiled, and calibrated to get stain grade cherry crown molding up with joints tight enough to seal with a coat of lacquer, I can't put up with anything less. You get the picture on this.

The point is, my crews don't stand around, they don't sleep, they don't watch TV. I find a way to get my tools maintained so that they are up to speed. I have rented cabinet saws, paid for people to come at odd hours to fix my bigger machines, and generally done what I needed to do to get the job done including sending people home early with 1/2 pay if I have equipment failure. I am not perfect, nor are my workers, nor are my projects. But it isn't from lack of effort. Perhaps Queen can pay a few guys to come in on the weekend, after hours, or have their equipment worked on when they have an OSHA training day.

My business is built on referral, with no advertising. I CANNOT afford ONE, not ONE unhappy customer in this economy. I will take a hit if need be to make a customer happy. I provide a full warranty on my product, and I must tell you that my customers are entirely unconcerned with any excuses I have for poor workmanship. If they saw kitchen cabinets they didn't like, molding that required too much putty, lacquers that were properly applied, or anything else they felt should be my responsibility, they wouldn't under any circumstances go through all the reasoning, theorizing and conjuring of reasons on my behalf to excuse me.

They want what they paid for. My business (especially in this economy) is dog eat dog, and good projects are like finding gold. My personal philosophy is that it is easier and more productive to deal with happy clients (think referral with me) that will call you back when they need something else done.

In the last 27 years of self employment, I have never had a client offer up a ready made excuse for me to help hide my shortcomings. The don't feel bad for me due to unfair competition from illegals or shady contractors, market constraints, a bad economy, poor quality of materials from a vendor, rising labor costs, poor availability of craftsmen, or any of the other litany of things a contractor faces. I am sure they would not have a moment's concern if I told them I needed to calibrate, clean, or repair my machinery.

They want what they paid for. I make sure they get it. They are unconcerned with my problems.

I learned two things a long time ago that have helped me survive in business.

From my Dad: If you don't have time to do it right once, how will you find time to do it again? That alone has saved me countless warranty callbacks.

From the best salesman I ever met: It's is a lot easier to keep a happy client, no matter what you put into it, than it is to go get new ones.


From the bottom of my heart I hope the USA makers can get together and make a good go of it so we can take pride in their products and once again buy with confidence. I am not so sure we are that far off now, as with the millions of knives produced by Queen and its brands, using our little pond to sample their wares here at BF really isn't a very big sample. So I wouldn't have a clue how many warranty issues they actually face daily. As for me, I would even pay more (although buy less knives) for a fine quality American knife if that would get the issue resolved.

One thing I know for sure, if you don't take good care of your customers, they won't be back, regardless of your business.

OK... off the soapbox now. :eek:

Robert
 
Gentlemen, we are going a bit far afield. Let's bring this back to knives and leave all the rest of the anecdotal stuff (including personal experiences in the workplace, politics, macroeconomics etc.) for more appropriate sub-forums
 
Here's my Vintage Knives version:

oct2010002-5.jpg


Blades centered:

oct2010001-6.jpg


Tight liners & springs & scales:

oct2010003-5.jpg


How I carry it:

oct2010004-6.jpg


roland
Nice to see one of Billy's creations being used, Roland.
They ran into the same slight problems. (that old equipment/dies) I bought three (actually traded them for Harness Jacks). Sold off two.
I kept the best for a safe Queen (pun intended):D
 
Vintage Knives version is nice and it's excellent to hear it's standing up well.
However, the Forum Knife has the better shield, stroke of genius actually!
 
Better shield? Not in my book, but then different strokes... :) The Vintage version has Mississipi as part of the tang stamp, not many knives with that state on 'em, at least not nowadays.
 
Vintage Knives version is nice and it's excellent to hear it's standing up well.
However, the Forum Knife has the better shield, stroke of genius actually!

I have to agree. When Vintage knives had this one to offer I thought the shield was nice but after seeing the BF knife I think the bar shield fits it much better.
 
I'd take my knife that is well made and well fitted over a BF knife with problems even if mine came with a shield in the shape of a dog turd.
roland

Very tactfully put, Roland. :rolleyes:
 
Thanks Elliott. To me a shield is the least important aspect of a knife, although when one falls off the knife sure looks ugly.
roland
 
Thanks Elliott. To me a shield is the least important aspect of a knife, although when one falls off the knife sure looks ugly.
roland

Actually, Roland, I was being a bit sarcastic about your choice of (descriptive) terms.

Anyway, let's just move on...
 
Thanks Elliott. To me a shield is the least important aspect of a knife, although when one falls off the knife sure looks ugly.
roland

That reminds me of my other Queen. A Canoe that the shield fell off of after I had to file the kick down to keep the tip of the main blade (protruding) from cutting me all the time. It's all better now, but the spring rides low when closed.
 
Back
Top