How much stock to place on lock tests?

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BubbaGump

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Oct 30, 2015
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Long story short---I have seriously been considering a Sebenza purchase. I have though about the idea off and on. Having scored some funds over the holidays, I was ready to pull the trigger. Then, while doing more homework online, I came across this recent lock test by Cold Steel. I really don't know if this should be a cause for concern but I honestly have to admit that it has given me reason to pause and at least reconsider whether to spend the money. I have seen these comparisons before by Cold Steel but this is the first time I have seen a knife lock fail in this manner.

[video=youtube;T4DNRn-sK-c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4DNRn-sK-c[/video]
 
I guess you have to ask yourself what you plan on doing with your knife. Do you plan on (a) batoning through cinder blocks and using the knife as an impromptu jaws of life, or (b) using it to cut things? If the latter, then a well-made framelock like the Sebenza should suit you fine.
 
Sorry. Didnt know there was another thread. I honestly am not trying to stir anything up. Mods, you can just close or delete the thread. I can look through the other posts for opinions. Thanks.
 
Check out my post in the link #114. Then ask yourself if you ever plan to do that with a folder.
 
BubbaGump said:
Sorry. Didnt know there was another thread. I honestly am not trying to stir anything up. Mods, you can just close or delete the thread. I can look through the other posts for opinions. Thanks.
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The search function is your friend.

No concern what so ever. If you need to rely on a beefy lock for your folder you are using the wrong tool. Get a fixed blade. Or a prybar.

That said, I own both a Sebenza and a Recon 1. Both are great knives :thumbup:
 
BubbaGump said:
How much stock to place on lock tests?
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Not much.
I'm not worried about the strength of a lock. I'm worried about the reliability.
Most "tests" focus on how absolutely strong the lock is. My only concern is I don't want the lock to accidentally release as I'm using it.

I'm sure the lock won't break the way I use a knife. I just don't want it to "slip" and disengage.

The highly publicized "tests" don't tell me what I want to know, so I ignore them.
 
Whether or not it should matter to you depends on your usage. I generally only put my folding knives into light EDC use, so it doesn't matter to me as much as it used to. Slipjoints are fine for me most of the time. Were I in the military, I would only carry Tri-Ad locks.

Fixed blades are always better than folding knives for rough use.
 
Depends on a number of factors. All other things being equal I'll always take a stronger lock. Trick is, all things are never equal, so you have to decide how important lock strength is versus the other considerations that go into knife design. I like a strong lock, and at this point I assiduously avoid frame and linerlocks, but cutting geometry, ergonomics and steel all rate ahead of lock strength for me at this point. Heck, in some cases I prioritize the ease of use of a lock over strength because I'll be unlocking it far more frequently than I'll be relying on the lock to protect me.

You've got to decide for yourself where the balance is for you.
 
Wouldn't it be fair to say that a frame lock knife's design allows it to withstand much more pressure against the lock when it's actually in a closed grip hand? In other words, if you are using a knife in a hard or aggressive manner you'll definitely have a firm grip on the handle which in turn would make it very difficult for the lock to slip.
 
The Fort said:
Wouldn't it be fair to say that a frame lock knife's design allows it to withstand much more pressure against the lock when it's actually in a closed grip hand? In other words, if you are using a knife in a hard or aggressive manner you'll definitely have a firm grip on the handle which in turn would make it very difficult for the lock to slip.
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I find this argument questionable at best for the following reasons; flesh compresses a decent amount with a bit of force, I rarely if ever white knuckle my knives during any kind of cutting and in many grips your hand is barely touching the lockbar. I hear it repeated all the time, but no one has ever provided any evidence to back it up, so I remain deeply skeptical.
 
The Fort said:
Wouldn't it be fair to say that a frame lock knife's design allows it to withstand much more pressure against the lock when it's actually in a closed grip hand? In other words, if you are using a knife in a hard or aggressive manner you'll definitely have a firm grip on the handle which in turn would make it very difficult for the lock to slip.
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I've always considered this a myth. I've never seen it tested, and I don't know anyone who would want to test this. I've also never seen a respectable company make this claim.
A properly designed lockback from Buck, Cold Steel or Spyderco, among others, is going to be stronger; if strength and reliability are my concern, I would consider a frame lock last. At least a liner lock is captured in between handle scales, and if the lock is well designed, it will wedge the knife open upon lock failure rather than disengage. Some framelocks have a stop to prevent over travel, but this isn't really what the stop is designed for.
 
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I'll just more-or-less quote myself from the others threads with the disclaimer that I am not a CRK fanboy.

CRK has literally been around for decades. If there was legitimate reason to question their lock strength it certainly would have surfaced by now. This CS test was designed to showcase the strength of their Tri-ad lock, which is admittedly very strong, however it provides no real world evidence to say the Sebenza is unsafe to use. This is not how people are supposed to use knives and people spending $300+ on these knives probably know better.
 
fetzer85 said:
I'll just more-or-less quote myself from the others threads with the disclaimer that I am not a CRK fanboy.

CRK has literally been around for decades. If there was legitimate reason to question their lock strength it certainly would have surfaced by now. This CS test was designed to showcase the strength of their Tri-ad lock, which is admittedly very strong, however it provides no real world evidence to say the Sebenza is unsafe to use. This is not how people are supposed to use knives and people spending $300+ on these knives probably know better.
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Yeah, if CRK was my thing I don't think I'd let the CS video stop me. Also, I don't believe any tampering took place, but these videos represent a very, very small sample size. I'm guessing if 100 Sebenzas were tested very, very few would fail like they did in the video. I could be wrong, but even as a confirmed non-fan of CRK I'm guessing average lock strength is much higher than what we saw.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Yeah, if CRK was my thing I don't think I'd let the CS video stop me. Also, I don't believe any tampering took place, but these videos represent a very, very small sample size. I'm guessing if 100 Sebenzas were tested very, very few would fail like they did in the video. I could be wrong, but even as a confirmed non-fan of CRK I'm guessing average lock strength is much higher than what we saw.
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To suggest this is to imply that Mr. Demko and Cold Steel provided a disingenuous and misleading test.

While I'm not a fan of CRK, I'm sure they make fantastic EDCs, and while I wouldn't buy one, I'd surely love to receive one as a gift and would happily use it as intended. We need to remember the purpose and proper application of a folding knife.
 
Kwon Kwang said:
To suggest this is to imply that Mr. Demko and Cold Steel provided a disingenuous and misleading test.

While I'm not a fan of CRK, I'm sure they make fantastic EDCs, and while I wouldn't buy one, I'd surely love to receive one as a gift and would happily use it as intended. We need to remember the purpose and proper application of a folding knife.
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Actually, no, it's not. They tested two knives, one of which may have been damaged by the previous portion of the test. No matter how sound and controlled your testing expecting to get a truly accurate idea of standard performance from such a small sample is simply not realistic. I think they did the best they could to provide a level playing field, but variation will inevitably exist in any item you test. Without knowing median lock strength and the standard deviation from said median it's difficult to draw any conclusions beyond a few very broad ones.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I find this argument questionable at best for the following reasons; flesh compresses a decent amount with a bit of force, I rarely if ever white knuckle my knives during any kind of cutting and in many grips your hand is barely touching the lockbar. I hear it repeated all the time, but no one has ever provided any evidence to back it up, so I remain deeply skeptical.
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Well, my brother had a cheap, "mystery steel" frame-lock. Made in China, and cost eight dollars.
It went to 100% engagement, then got vertical play.
It would disengage with slight hand pressure on the spine.

When I held it in a normal hammer grip, I could lift a 30 pound weight tied to a piece of paracord off the ground , looping the paracord over the spine of the blade.

No video to show you guys, and no pics, so it won't count as "proof" for all you in internet land.
It sure counts as proof to me though, because I beheld it with my own two eyes. :)

The mode of failure for frame-locks is the lock-bar slipping off the blade's tang.
It doesn't take much force to prevent that, due to the nature of how the forces are transferred/directed.
 
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