How overbuilt is too overbuilt?

[strategy9]

Medford.

Anything just shy of Medord is still more then enough knife.
Anything more then Medford is simply rediculous.

Medford = overbuilt knife (folder)


As for fixed blades, no such thing dependent on needs.

 

[Wowbagger]

I’ll answer . . . but you’re not going to like it :

practically useful

I'll start there. Now I appreciate the Medfords and the other over the top knives. Heck . . .half the time when I get home I slip my Holdout I into my pocket. They are fun and I am glad they are being made. For my uses and for a single EDC-something that can slice bread or an apple as well as trim a string or open a bag or box . . . mmmmmmmmmm I'm not so much after Medford like objects.

The fixed blade chef’s paring knife is about right blade thickness wise and a good length. In fact I EDCed it in a cardboard sheath in my city back pack for years and years and years. During that time I had a very small Buck lock back in my pocket or on my belt as well.
We just use it in the kitchen now. The knife is about thirty years old and used daily in the kitchen by The Chef.
This chef’s knife at the spine is UNDER 1.5 mm. That’s about right. Yes it is a fixed but at least there will be no lock failure when you start in . . . doing . . . doing . . . what is it that causes all this catastrophic lock failure that we are so worried about ? . . . ? . . . ?
Oh yes when we brainlessly whack the knife in a most unnatural way that has nothing to do with actually using a knife in everyday chores. Well that's alright then . . . we won't have to worry about any of the reputable knife makers locks will we ?

Pretty much I no longer use it.
The handle is too short, too slick and a bit too narrow for me so I moved on to my Grail. Brad Zinker Urban Trapper with my own custom handle. I didn’t grind the blade thinner but really I could take a little off the thickness for my uses. I like the blade just as it is and it would be a shame to change it just for the slightest performance gain.



I often say that many / most people would get along fine for most city slicker EDC work with the little box knife in this photo. Now THAT is certainly not over built.



Next photo bellow. These two are plenty robust in my mind, unless we start doing hatchet, froe or pry bar work in that case I recommend a hatchet, froe or pry bar .



The next photo gives an idea of how thick the blade was on the larger knife above before I made it into a knife. The blade was 5mm, same as the 5mm allen wrench in the photo. Still . . . as I said it is plenty robust at 2.2mm (3V by the way).


One knife that I find infinitely useful is my Little Monster bellow (the wood handled job) but I guess one could argue that the blade is way too wide. It's thin enough though.





Width wise for a lot of long bladed chores like slicing bread and cake, apples etc can be done with a knife no wider than this quite long but super slender fruit knife.
Ha, ha, ha
not very BA is it ?

 

[Wowbagger]

The amount of force needed to break a properly heat treated blade that is 3/32" thick is tremendous. The chances of this happening during use is virtually zero.

Exactly
As I have said many times here I took an Opinel #12, put it in a large vise clamped on the blade near the pivot, gripped the blade with some very large Channellock pliers and bent the blade way, way, way over intensionally trying to break it off . . . oh. . . and did I mention I had just before that ground a slot in the side of the blade with an abrasive cut off wheel so it would break in a certain spot . . .
It took like four MAJOR tries each escalating way past anything I could have imagined possible.
Keep in mind that is an $18 knife.
Any questions ?

 

[DocJD]

The amount of force needed to break a properly heat treated blade that is 3/32" thick is tremendous. The chances of this happening during use is virtually zero.

Knives are for cutting soft materials only, and never for prying.

I can't really see a need for an overbuilt folder. 3/16" thick at the absolute most, and that is even overkill.

Some users want a folder for undefinable emergency / survival purposes . Not normal , routine or proper use . They want as near an indestructible tool as is reasonable , to be used for whatever becomes necessary .

 

[Wowbagger]

They want as near an indestructible tool as is reasonable , to be used for whatever becomes necessary .

Well . . . there is THAT !
Wy I remember once I got into an impromptu locked car door removal competition with Lynn Thompson using only what we were EDCing in our pockets.
I won . . . luckily I had my little slab of plastic C-4.
Because . . . well . . . you never know.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

If it's overbuilt, it's overbuilt. Too much is too much, which is why it's called too much. What's too much, though, depends on the context of use. Match tools to tasks, friends.

 

[Mecha]

If it's overbuilt, it's overbuilt. Too much is too much, which is why it's called too much. What's too much, though, depends on the context of use. Match tools to tasks, friends.

How you gotta just up n' make sense in an "overbuilt knife," thread, 42? >:O

 

[Mecha]

I'm waiting for the pendulum to swing completely the other way. (It's already begun it's movement.) I'm prepared to demand blades so thin they are transparent. Edges that exhibit quantum fuzziness.

Demko too.

This is where I'm generally heading with my small knives, SpySmasher. Some of the latest ones were less that 10 degrees inclusive, easily. I want them to be razor blades. Just for comparison's sake, most historical swords are thinner at the handguard than the OP knife blade, and only get more thin toward the sword tip. Of course swords are usually tempered to be softer and more springy than knives, which greatly increases impact toughness and resistance to suddenly breaking.

 

[Sonnydaze]

Five ounces max, 4.7" grip-length, 3.3" blade with 3/32" thickness. This is max for me.

 

[stabman]

Smartass answer: When it causes gravitational collapse into a singularity that swallows the Earth.

More reasonable answer: When thickness or weight gets in the way of cutting the things I need to cut.

 

[d762nato]

A reasonable definition of "overbuilt" would depend entirely on what type of matter the tool is intended or expected to cut.

It looks like your going to be needing an Arktica for that job. I carried a Satu for a short time and it kept pulling my pants down with the 10-oz weight. It's funny because I can carry a belt knife of the same weight and it doesn't feel the same as a heavy weight folder in your pocket.

I like the heavy's a little I guess but not as an edc and mainly as a woods type blade maybe. I've carried a spyderco police since if I remember right since 89 and at one time thought it was a big knife. Although since carrying that Satu the police feels like a feather compared to it. I traded the satu away some time ago for a Fallkiven Tor, now I can feel the difference with this one on my belt.

 

[Agith]

Some users want a folder for undefinable emergency / survival purposes . Not normal , routine or proper use . They want as near an indestructible tool as is reasonable , to be used for whatever becomes necessary .

As silly as it may seem, this is why I carry the 4 max. For most tasks however, the Victorinox in my other pocket does the job. The Victorinox ranger in compliment with the 4max makes for a system I can approach many situations with. The SAK for most tasks, and the 4 max for when I feel I want the locking mechanism to back it up and help protect my hand from mistakes in panicked or hindered situations (for example, I wouldn't want to use a slipjoint when my hands are losing their dexterity in cold weather).

 

[Bill1170]

Hammering tent pegs into frozen ground - ‘nuff said.

 

[Wowbagger]

Allow me to quote my self :

Width wise for a lot of long bladed chores like slicing bread and cake, apples etc can be done with a knife no wider than this quite long but super slender fruit knife.
Ha, ha, ha
not very BA is it ?

. . . and even if it isn't allowed
I was thinking today . . . well not actual thinking; that hurts me . . . more like it occurred to me; yah that's it. If I stand by the above then . . . then . . . I can't believe I had this revelation . . . I mean the perfect knife has been here all along and I have been ignoring it and "not getting it".
Of course I'm talking about The Texas Tooth Pick.
WOW !
HMMMMMmmmmmmm
I never considered getting one. Until today.
Then it just came to me like . . . THE ANSWER . . . burnt across the sky by the hand of Bob !
WOW !
HMMMMMmmmmmmm

Q : What is the largest Texas Tooth Pick ? Are there some around four inches ?
Now THAT would be BA.

 

[eugenechia1989]

If it doesn't slice well, it's too overbuilt. My primary EDC is a Code 4, it's an amazing slicer, and it's no delicate EDC knife by any stretch of the imagination. Hence, I see no reason for a knife to sacrifice slicing performance for strength. If it does, then it's too overbuilt.

 

[Cvrobinson]

I like my Adamas 275, it makes all my other knives seem dainty. I keep a wrist lanyard on it, at my age I do not want to have to bend over and pick it up.

 

[Kreyzhorse]

I'm okay with the Hinderer Strider designs. Beastly knives but functional with a nod to design.

I generally felt that ZT made some over built designs that look over built to simply look over built. Not really functional.

Medford, well, their designs looked good but were too damn big to be useful. On a whim, I did acquire a Micro Pratoreoian and wow, it's a beast but works as an EDC and cuts things I need it to. Well designed with great fit and finish.

Overall, I prefer smaller knives, but have zero issue with the over built craze and I suppose they have their own niche. I also appreciate that they are designs that keep pushing people to explore new designs.

 

[midnight flyer]

Is there such a thing as "overbuilt"? Most here seem to talk about their "hobby" and their "addiction", but for most they could probably do just fine with a SAK if they viewed knives as they were originally designed, as tools.

Been working in construction for 40+ years, and have carried all manner of knives. Camped, hiked, and hunted an easy decade before that. Truthfully, I could get away with just about all my knife tasks with one of the old CASE stockman or large copperheads I used to carry.

Somewhere in the mid 70s I noticed the Buck 110 showing up on the job in large numbers. Couldn't understand why until I bought another brand but same sized knife a few years later. More utility, heavier tasks, didn't have to be careful with the blade. I got it. Started doing rougher work, not so much fine carpentry. Moved into painting, the more into general contracting. Needed a knife that could cut the old style seals on paint drums, cut heavy duty fiberglass strapping, and punch a hole in things if nothing else was at hand.

Didn't want to go to a fixed as when I was around clients I didn't want to look like some redneck rube hanging it off my belt. I was taught at a very young age that your knife was not to be seen unless it was being used. Tried various sized, lock systems, steels, etc., and found a knife that suits my current construction work needs quite well as a tool, the ZT 0909. Not overbuilt to me. This knife (although the handles are just a bit small, just a bit) is great for what I do. I can dig bent nails and brads out of wood, carve patch plugs out of yellow pine, and cut load strapping all day long with no worries.

Overbuilt for the average executive? Sure. For me? Not at all. So if a knife is more than a collector's piece for you and you are buying it specifically for your needs as a tool, don't think there is such a thing. Besides, who could tell someone else what their needs are based on their own personal opinion?

Robert

 

[Lapedog]

I'm waiting for the pendulum to swing completely the other way. (It's already begun it's movement.) I'm prepared to demand blades so thin they are transparent. Edges that exhibit quantum fuzziness.

Demko too.

Please try the Boker Exskelibur I framelock. It is super thin and lightweight in scales, but also the blade is high (edge to spine) and ground rediculousoy thin. Despite the thin scales the knife does not feel flimsy or weak. This is because the scales are contoured. It is the sliciest knife I own and even if it had no edge at all it would likely outcut most other blades. By the way, if you will try it, get the full Ti version. The CF scaled framelock has centring issues. The blade is appropriately thin for such a thin knife.

Look at the Exskelibur I next to the Large 21.

Look how thick the blade is by looking near the lock. Now look at the plunge grind. It will give you some idea about how thin the blade is.

 

[palonej]

I do HVAC work. These are the 3 knives that are used, abused, at work. Really abused.
The Link blew its assist spring, but still functions fine.
The other 2 are as overbuilt as I will ever need as they have been through some major shit. That Pac Salt cuts like a chainsaw.
Joe