How overbuilt is too overbuilt?

Overbuilt to me is blade stock near or thicker than .2" and weight in excess of 7oz. If it exceeds either of those, it's just poorly designed to me, a folder masquerading as something tough like a fixed blade (while being physically far weaker). The weight parameter is less strict if the knife is over 4" blade length, but thickness just makes the knife cut like garbage.
 
As an office schlub who sits at a desk all day, my knives are largely relegated to worry-stone status. I DO carry a SAK in one pocket (usually a Farmer) and a large folder in my right pocket. The knife that is in my right pocket changes day to day, but is usually something with a 3.6 or longer blade, and a thick (in comparison with the SAK) blade. I don't need such a knife in my daily life, but I carry it just to have it, because I can. As a result, I don't really have an indicator of "over-built", I DO own a fullsize Medford Praetorian and even carry it sometimes. I DO think some of the knives you see on Insta like the trend towards these half-inch thick cleaver-style blades with even thicker handle scales are a bit much. But, to each their own.

All of that said, when I go camping, yes, I do carry multiple knives, and they tend to be thicker stouter folders to compliment whatever of my fixed blades I'm carrying. In that sort of context, I want the knife to be able to handle whatever I need it to handle.
 
The 4max is my favorite over built tank of a knife, it actually cuts well though and i use it all the time around the ranch. Here it is next to a recon 1 for size reference
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its a beast the lock bar has to be seen to be believed.
 
i think we have adequately displayed that overbuilt isn't the same meaning for all people. i supposed we have different uses for knives and what is important that it makes us happy regardless if it's the best tool.
i definitely have overbuilt knives. why? because i sometimes need to chop with them. chop with a knife? yup. why not with an axe? not this foliage. then a machete? nope, i need a folder to be discreet(sheeple, park ranger)
with that being said, my taste shifts all the time which is why i hate to preorder knives. i've been picking up edc knives in recent months (light thin slicey).
the weird thing is that one of my best slicer knives is an "overbuilt" knife.
have i been suckered by marketing? yeah definitely but not with just knives.
 
F22shift said:
i think we have adequately displayed that overbuilt isn't the same meaning for all people. i supposed we have different uses for knives and what is important that it makes us happy regardless if it's the best tool.
i definitely have overbuilt knives. why? because i sometimes need to chop with them. chop with a knife? yup. why not with an axe? not this foliage. then a machete? nope, i need a folder to be discreet(sheeple, park ranger)
with that being said, my taste shifts all the time which is why i hate to preorder knives. i've been picking up edc knives in recent months (light thin slicey).
the weird thing is that one of my best slicer knives is an "overbuilt" knife.
have i been suckered by marketing? yeah definitely but not with just knives.
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Genuine question . . . would the saw on a largish SAK work well for what you chop or too slow?
I cut branches on the bike path in spring when the crew hasn't been able to get to them in time and that's been the best for that.
 
Wowbagger said:
Genuine question . . . would the saw on a largish SAK work well for what you chop or too slow?
I cut branches on the bike path in spring when the crew hasn't been able to get to them in time and that's been the best for that.
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I would think a larger fixed blade would be a vastly quicker way to handle branches, something like a Becker or ESEE with a good edge on it. I have used the saws on various SAKs, but I probably wouldn't use those as a trailblazing tool. Just my personal preference.
 
Lapedog said:
Look how thick the blade is by looking near the lock. Now look at the plunge grind. It will give you some idea about how thin the blade is.
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Nice ! Boker has some stuff I really like.
Put that blade in the thick Ti handle of the CRK and I might start drooling.
 
Quiet said:
I would think a larger fixed blade would be a vastly quicker way to handle branches, something like a Becker or ESEE with a good edge on it. I have used the saws on various SAKs, but I probably wouldn't use those as a trailblazing tool. Just my personal preference.
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Oh for sure. I supose we are talking just a couple of branches and a little pocket kinfe.
 
Wowbagger said:
Oh for sure. I supose we are talking just a couple of branches and a little pocket kinfe.
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That's fair enough. I could see a situation where you're wanting to trailrun light, and may not want the weight of a large fixed blade. In that case, the saw on a Farmer or another camping model would probably be perfect.
 
DocJD said:
:eek: Some users want a folder for undefinable emergency / survival purposes . Not normal , routine or proper use . They want as near an indestructible tool as is reasonable , to be used for whatever becomes necessary . :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:
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This is my reason for carrying an overbuilt knife. My most often choice is a Cold Steel Rajah 3. The Rajah never gets used, only carried along with a Spyderco Delica that does all the actual cutting.

As another poster pointed out one of the problems is many many of these knives is most will fall short of their intended purpose. Why? Because nearly every manufacturer OVER hardens the blades. What is the point of a 6mm thick blade if it's made so hard that the blade will snap quite easily if given lateral force. I have no clue why so much focus is placed on edge retention to the point the blade is so brittle it really does not matter how thick the stock is. I would much much prefer a nice thick blade that will hold an edge just long enough to get the immediate work at hand done, resharpen very easily and be soft enough to BEND and not snap like a piece of hard plastic. I just don't get it folks but I can tell you those big thick "indestructible" blades will snap like a glass rod if you put them to the test. Give me a blade with acceptable edge retention to be a functional knife that will bend and not break.
 
precisionshootist said:
I just don't get it folks but I can tell you those big thick "indestructible" blades will snap like a glass rod if you put them to the test. Give me a blade with acceptable edge retention to be a functional knife that will bend and not break.
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I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong . . . as such . . . but do you have any examples to hand ? Vids or test, perhaps that you have done, showing the blades snapping ?
The Cold Steel vids abusing blades (who uses simply spot on hardening/tempering (great edge holding in my experience)).
There is this one I enjoy posting :
. . . sooooooo . . . what'ch got ?


I do this sort of thing with my Cold Steel CTS-XHP (carve mild steel) so it can't be too far behind in hardness.

Proba'ly couldn't do this with a "brittle" steel.
 
Wowbagger said:
Genuine question . . . would the saw on a largish SAK work well for what you chop or too slow?
I cut branches on the bike path in spring when the crew hasn't been able to get to them in time and that's been the best for that.
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Yeah it would work but it would be exhausting and too slow for my liking. A buddy of mine has sak and it’s just too much saw action for a serious tool.
I would get wiped out in a jungle environment. I view the sak saw more as an emergency saw which actually fits your use as weight is important on the bike. If I were you, I would consider a silky pocketboy. Not as light as a sak but chews through wood like a beaver.
Basically I would have a general rule to chop wood that is wrist size and smaller. It also depends on how hard the wood is. Otherwise I have a silky zubat 330 (330mm blade) for the bigger stuff and very hard wood. No sense in dulling the edge on the hard stuff. Once you loose the edge, you will know. You will be doing a lot of extra swings on the lighter foliage. On the wrist size it’ll be about 2-3 chops and 1 chop easy for finger size. I feel it’s faster than a saw.
The environment is not a fun one. Swarms of mosquitoes and stopping for a second means ants crawling up your boots and under your pants. There is a sense of urgency to have an efficient system to clear especially if you are running point on an exploration group.
Also, I find chopping enjoyable in a camp setting. There’s a bushcraft guy I watch on YouTube. He uses an axe and freely admits a saw would be more efficient. But he grew up on axes and loves it.
So yeah overbuilt for light chopping. And I guess jack of all trades and master of none at some level.
 
precisionshootist said:
I just don't get it folks but I can tell you those big thick "indestructible" blades will snap like a glass rod if you put them to the test.
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Wrong, just plain wrong.
I've already posted the photos showing that you are wrong in a bunch of other threads, but suffice to say that no blade "snapped" like glass rods or anything else that would snap.
 
Wowbagger said:
I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong . . . as such . . . but do you have any examples to hand ? Vids or test, perhaps that you have done, showing the blades snapping ?
The Cold Steel vids abusing blades (who uses simply spot on hardening/tempering (great edge holding in my experience)).
There is this one I enjoy posting :
. . . sooooooo . . . what'ch got ?


I do this sort of thing with my Cold Steel CTS-XHP (carve mild steel) so it can't be too far behind in hardness.

Proba'ly couldn't do this with a "brittle" steel.
Click to expand...

No I have not done these tests myself although I have had blades fail by impact and lateral force. There are tons of examples on youtube. Even fixed blades that are much thicker snap from simple batoning. Just search blade fails and you will see blades in two pieces from nearly every manufacturer. Some more than others of course and sometimes the blade will end up with a large half moon shaped chip. ETC. The reason in my opinion is the silly desire to make a knife that is so hard it rarely needs sharpening. For my money its way more important for an emergency tool knife to NOT BREAK when used in unusually extreme circumstances than it is for the blade to hold and edge a little longer. Also for a survival type of blade the last thing you want is to have a blade that can't be resharpened without a shop full of equipment and a couple hours of spare time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all the knives will snap but the chances are VERY high that if the blade receives a hard impact or is subjected to strong lateral forces it will indeed fail. The reason is the blades are overly hardened in an attempt to capture that "holds an edge forever" carrot. The only maker that I know of that understood this concept is Bo Randall. Randall knives are intentionally softer for the very reason of avoiding a catastrophic blade failure. Randall believed it was much better to have a dull knife that just needs a quick touch up than a broken blade.
 
stabman said:
Wrong, just plain wrong.
I've already posted the photos showing that you are wrong in a bunch of other threads, but suffice to say that no blade "snapped" like glass rods or anything else that would snap.
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batoning with a wood baton will hopefully not snap the blade but it does happen and way too often. Now put the knives you posted in a vice and apply lateral force and the blade will likely snap and not bend. Myself I would much prefer a little softer and a little more capability to bend with lateral force and impact with a hard object. Oh and please, I'm not suggesting you do this with your nice knives, I have many myself and would not do this, I'm just saying that I don't kid myself about what the result would be if I did. Most of my overbuilt folders are NOT as strong and the blade thickness suggests. If you have been around the knife world for a while and I'm pretty sure you have you've probably heard of one of the tests that you have to pass to get into the guild and that is your blade has to withstand significant lateral force, bend and return to shape without breaking. That is what I would much prefer in our super strong looking overbuilt folders not edge holding.
 
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