How should Collector Knives sell GEC SFO's

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knifeswapper said:
I don't really want to clarify; but there are several methods for those that are of that mindset.
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Fair enough. If multiple entries can be automated by a bot, that seems like the process is broken. If someone puts in the time to enter as many times as they can manually, I'd argue that might be fair game. I'm new to this, so maybe there's something I'm not thinking of. Anyway, it's awesome that you're putting so much effort and consideration into building a fair process.
 
knifeswapper said:
Sadly, that was as a huge (12 core, 64GM) server and as stripped down a script as could be implemented. Their support is currently looking at it, but I can't afford $200-300/mo for a server to do a couple draws a year....
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How about going old fashioned?

Free - but will take some time.

Ask everyone that wants one to physically mail you a request. One of the requirements is that they place in the address/front of envelope "77 Barlow X". X = wood, sawcut, camel, micarta. If you want a shot at each one then the customer needs to send you four letters, one for each cover option.

As the mail starts to roll in just toss all the letters unopened in one of four large cardboard boxes for each of the cover options.

Set a cut-off date for received mail.

Any mail coming in after the cut-off date toss in a recycling box.

You don't have to open all the mail...Just the 125 or so from each box and recycle the rest.

Draw 125 letters out of each box and those are the ones that get invoices.

I know it sounds crappy and time consuming, but maybe less crappy and time consuming then other options?

_________________________________________

My experience with the second test was first two attempts timed out after long wait. I finally got in on the third attempt but I didn't think I was going to make it under the required time frame.
 
lieferung said:
I could be wrong, but the purpose of a random lottery is true fairness: one entry per person, even odds for everyone. Multiple entries would defeat this. It's not "putting in work" it's trying to game the system.
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Yeah, I guess the flippers would have a field day with gamifying the process.
 
Flippers or even just regular customers. Some people just can't accept even odds, they'll always want to stack them in their favor.
 
I'm actually kind of surprised that that this conversation is even happening, specifically with regard to the #77 Barlows. I can see the clear need for a better system, when knives like the TC Barlows come around. It's crazy. But the #77s? If memory serves me, on the last 2 runs of 77 Barlows, there weren't any issues at all. I was in the Adirondacks on vacation both times, without cell phone coverage. I walked to a nearby firehouse parking lot each morning after breakfast, where I could get wi-fi access, and checked Bladeforums. Both times I read something about the 77s being up on the early reserve. So I went in and easily reserved 2 knives. One for me and one for my father-in-law who was too old to be able to order his own knives. I didn't notice any slow downs or scrambling at all. Did the thirst for 77s suddenly get more ravenous?
 
Buzzbait said:
I'm actually kind of surprised that that this conversation is even happening, specifically with regard to the #77 Barlows. I can see the clear need for a better system, when knives like the TC Barlows come around. It's crazy. But the #77s? If memory serves me, on the last 2 runs of 77 Barlows, there weren't any issues at all. I was in the Adirondacks on vacation both times, without cell phone coverage. I walked to a nearby firehouse parking lot each morning after breakfast, where I could get wi-fi access, and checked Bladeforums. Both times I read something about the 77s being up on the early reserve. So I went in and easily reserved 2 knives. One for me and one for my father-in-law who was too old to be able to order his own knives. I didn't notice any slow downs or scrambling at all. Did the thirst for 77s suddenly get more ravenous?
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I think the popularity has skyrocketed since.
  • GEC Barlow? Check
  • SFO? Check
  • Limited? Check
  • High Demand? Check
You just have to look at the exchange to kind of get a feel for what the demand is. 77 Barlows don't last any longer than TC Barlows and I've noticed an increased interest with a lot of the newer folks (myself included). NF and TC Barlows look exceptional in Instagram pictures and I would bet money that this is a big factor in what is driving up the demand. Couple a picturesque, well made Barlow with the ever increasing interest in more traditional cutlery and you have a recipe for an angry, frenzied shark feed...

My interest comes from wanting a GEC made Barlow in a more usable size. The single blade 15 pattern is just a wee bit too small for a working knife and a Barlow really should be a working knife.

Though the above is obviously a factor, it would appear that the cheaters, flippers, and general scum have gotten a taste of the GEC 77 Barlow phenomenon and are contributing in their own negative, complicating manner. It adds poison to the well and makes acquisition harder and more stressful for honest collectors and users and undoubtedly gives the dealers more than a few additional white hairs....

An ugly situation all around and kind of sours the whole "new knife" experience.
 
Buzzbait said:
I'm actually kind of surprised that that this conversation is even happening, specifically with regard to the #77 Barlows. I can see the clear need for a better system, when knives like the TC Barlows come around. It's crazy. But the #77s? If memory serves me, on the last 2 runs of 77 Barlows, there weren't any issues at all. I was in the Adirondacks on vacation both times, without cell phone coverage. I walked to a nearby firehouse parking lot each morning after breakfast, where I could get wi-fi access, and checked Bladeforums. Both times I read something about the 77s being up on the early reserve. So I went in and easily reserved 2 knives. One for me and one for my father-in-law who was too old to be able to order his own knives. I didn't notice any slow downs or scrambling at all. Did the thirst for 77s suddenly get more ravenous?
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I’d say ravenous is putting it lightly. With issues of honesty and integrity being brought into the mix were verging on cutthroat.

You are in fact correct about the last few #77 runs though. On both occasions I was able to secure the one knife I wanted in the cover option I wanted over an hour after receiving the early reserve notification. I know this to be the case because both times I was driving to work and as much as I like Barlow’s I’m not pulling onto the shoulder of the freeway to secure one...

I remember previously when both #15 and #14 TC’s were released within a short timeframe and things got crazy followed by a whirlwind of negativity plaguing the forum. Some time after that another run of Single clip TC’s were commissioned, a risk was taken and a huge number were produced. Despite the overwhelming popularity that run of TC’s was available online for multiple days to anyone and everyone who wanted one or more. There were so many that posts were being generated in the traditional forum reaching out to those who may have missed out.

The end state of this method temporarily cut the legs out from underneath the flippers and placed a highly sought after Barlow in every pocket. Did it last forever? Of course not. Did it have any effect on the harder to find or limited production models? No, not really, their demand and value remained high, but for a short period lots of folks were happy and for one run scalping for profit was brought to its knees.

I know that there are a lot of man, time, equipment and financial variables that go into upping production and that this is amplified even further when multiple cover options are offered. Not saying this is the solution or even remotely possible for CK or GEC given their current 2018 line up, just reflecting on some other times of tension and resolution in regards to high demand SFO sales.
 
I admit that I’m pretty bummed about the thought of a knife lottery. The concept runs contrary to all the things I hold true. I watch the forums. I sign up for alerts. I prepare my computer for the fastest possible checkout. I study to make sure that I know exactly what I’m ordering. I keep myself available when the early reserve is about to drop.

I’m not a rich person. I just work a county job. So I can’t compete with many of the traditional collectors on the auction site. I have to give up something in my life in order to afford every knife.i I have to use my wits and the tools I have at hand to increase my odds of success.

Now I’m forced to compete with a far larger crowd of people, including every lazy guy who finally gets around to signing up for the lottery, hours or days later. Planning, hard work and vigilance, the traits that my father taught me were of value in life, now have no value under a lottery method. It’s quite sad really, that we have to compromise our beliefs in order to be “fair”.
 
r8shell said:
Does it feel like you just can't win? Did you ever think you'd have people upset with you for trying to make things more fair? :confused:
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I have had my butt chewed for every possible thing you can imagine. I could allocate them by IQ and half the folks would be happy about it.... that doesn't make it fair. And for the guys that like the scramble, you drop when they are in a meeting and you will take a chewing from them too.
 
Probably just my perception, but seems like 77 barlows do not get flipped as much as some other GEC's. I guess flippers decide to keep some knives.
 
Buzzbait said:
I admit that I’m pretty bummed about the thought of a knife lottery. The concept runs contrary to all the things I hold true. I watch the forums. I sign up for alerts. I prepare my computer for the fastest possible checkout. I study to make sure that I know exactly what I’m ordering. I keep myself available when the early reserve is about to drop.

I’m not a rich person. I just work a county job. So I can’t compete with many of the traditional collectors on the auction site. I have to give up something in my life in order to afford every knife.i I have to use my wits and the tools I have at hand to increase my odds of success.

Now I’m forced to compete with a far larger crowd of people, including every lazy guy who finally gets around to signing up for the lottery, hours or days later. Planning, hard work and vigilance, the traits that my father taught me were of value in life, now have no value under a lottery method. It’s quite sad really, that we have to compromise our beliefs in order to be “fair”.
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I think this is a bit extreme and dramatic. I actually am glad Mike is trying to implement a lottery or some other system to allow everyone a fair shot at this run. I'm in favor of the lottery, not because I'm lazy, but because I have a job that would make it pretty much impossible for me to be hovering over my keyboard at the exact second they go on sale.

It feels like Mike is getting raked over the coals which is probably the most unfair thing about this whole situation. Give the guy a break - he's doing a hell of a job offering amazing knives that are incredibly popular. The fact that he's putting in all this extra time and effort speaks to the strength of his character, and is in no way a compromise on our beliefs.
 
Some of CK knives reserves happen to drop when Im in the gym. I remember it specifically, the northfield barlows, I finished my shift at the hospital and was in the gym and missed the reserve, You know what happened? I moved on. I paid the premium and got my bone micarta. Mike does his best, and Im glad to help out with the reserve testing and got my 78s when I saw the message. Some times I get them in time, some times I don't. No sense in blaming Mike, he does the best he can to make it fair unlike some other companies.
 
r8shell said:
Does it feel like you just can't win? Did you ever think you'd have people upset with you for trying to make things more fair? :confused:
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Jondllas311 said:
It feels like Mike is getting raked over the coals
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I’m not upset with Mike at all, and I’m certainly not raking him over the coals. I applaud him for trying to come up with a better way. I just don’t happen to think that the lottery is a very good method. It seems like a very flawed plan to me, that rewards man’s worst traits. And as a customer of Mike’s, it’s important that he knows how I feel. Please don’t try to make more out of this than it really is. At the end of the day, these are still just knives we’re talking about, and Mike isn’t a worse person because of it.
 
Lottery is a good thing. Thank you Mike for testing it. So many folks who are unable to "play the game" due to computer issues or real life issues are thankful for a more level playing field.
 
I am not offended at all. For those that had figured out all the tricks to be the first one to the existing system, couldn't like a lottery system. For those that were never able to get a short run because it takes them a couple minutes to get available, couldn't like the scramble. And, just to be completely honest, the second category in general ends up containing more of my consistent and loyal customers whereas the first category is generally more of the folks that roam around grabbing short runs everywhere but don't really have loyalty to any one dealer. Before I was a dealer, I was in the first category. The problems I am trying to find solutions for (in the order of importance to me) are A) Server capability to handle the solution without any customer getting an error, cart sniped, or locked out; B) Steps to keep any one person from getting multiples of the same knife thru hook or crook; C) Giving those interested the same chance regardless of age or technical capacity.

I have great customers in both categories. And all customers that buy multiples are not always flippers. I see a lot of good customers showing up in trade threads having bought one of each variant - only actually wanting one. But since it was easy to tic all the boxes and use the extra for trade fodder - they pulled them out of front of those that want nothing else. I also see legitimate reasons for getting 2 of the same knife, for example having twin boys.

For every person that has shown disdain for the lottery solution on social media, I have received two emails from customers praising it. In the end, I don't mind making a mistake here or there if the end goal is to make things fair to my customer base as a whole on the 2-3 runs a year that have become contentious. And, as I have mentioned, I am going to get chewed regardless of the solution - I might as well make it one I feel good about.
 
I see your point better now I think. I am certainly not great at the scramble and have missed several knives because of that, but I thought it was at least simple. I don't know if I have a better chance at getting one, but if you think this system will deter flippers and be better in the long run then I'm on board. I'm about tapped out with knife purchases this year already anyway.
 
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