I think the sign-up lottery is the best solution. Not worth making a science project out of this. Should be limited to one per customer if picked. That way everyone will have an equal chance . If you score one great; if you don't - life will go on 
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How should Collector Knives sell GEC SFO's
- Thread starter knifeswapper
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Squidman24
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Isn't that what we have now without the lottery? I have missed a few SFOs due to them all being snapped up by people who were quicker than me. I survived it every time.....so far. 
Yeah, your right. But I believe the sign-up Mike's trying to implement won't happen with everyone trying to sign up in less than a minuteIsn't that what we have now without the lottery? I have missed a few SFOs due to them all being snapped up by people who were quicker than me. I survived it every time.....so far.
. He can dictate the amount of time allowed to enter the sign-up if I understand this all correctly. I guess we will somewhat get an idea of his plan with today's test.It seems like this is starting to get negative, I really hope it doesn’t. This guy is bending over backwards to make it as fair and equitable as he can for everyone, and people are starting to complain. If you want more than one they will be up on the auction shortly after they ship and people can pay the premium to get whichever ones they feel they need. There are generally some buy it now ones for not a horrible amount more than retail, or ones on the exchange here for very close to retail.
Squidman24
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Just to be clear, none of the comments I have made in this thread were intended to be negative in nature. My apologies to anyone who may have interpreted them that way. I recognize and acknowledge the lengths that Mike goes through to provide us with exceptional customer service while doing his best to ensure everyone gets a fair shake.
knifeswapper
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I don't mind people expressing opinions at all. Just please understand that my intention is to make it fair for everyone that is interested in purchasing one. I am not looking to further restrict the scope; I am not looking to further expand the scope. I am just looking for a solution that allows those interested a reasonable (more than seconds) amount of time to have a chance at one, on a platform that can handle the surge. It is a very complex issue once you take the full breadth of issues into consideration. It has already costs hundreds of dollars, but every complex solution does.
Well, thank you Mike for going through what must be extra trouble to give us (me! 
) a chance at getting a 77 Barlow.
As I've been into this hobby for only a few years, and a customer of CK for a little less than that, I've seen the ER system as a great tool to have for the good feeling that there's gonna be a nice knife coming my way. During the normal production runs, I've also taken advantage of the ability to change my mind - for my own fickle or budgetary reasons - between the "Sure" and "Notify" commitment levels.
As I understand it, the system also benefits Mike somewhat during these normal runs by allowing him to gauge the amount of knives to be ordered from the mfr.
But on the now-limited SFO runs, I'm thinking that side benefit for Mike no longer exists, as I'm pretty sure that the maximum allowed run (500?) will be manufactured and sent to CK. So thanks again
knifeswapper
for your efforts to make this a fair opportunity for your customers.
I wonder if the 4 handle materials would allow for 4 different opportunities or days/times of day that they could be offered for reserve or rolled out. Not sure if something like that would make it any easier, or 4 times harder!
A Red Sawcut would look so cool next to this guy
...
) a chance at getting a 77 Barlow.As I've been into this hobby for only a few years, and a customer of CK for a little less than that, I've seen the ER system as a great tool to have for the good feeling that there's gonna be a nice knife coming my way. During the normal production runs, I've also taken advantage of the ability to change my mind - for my own fickle or budgetary reasons - between the "Sure" and "Notify" commitment levels.
As I understand it, the system also benefits Mike somewhat during these normal runs by allowing him to gauge the amount of knives to be ordered from the mfr.
But on the now-limited SFO runs, I'm thinking that side benefit for Mike no longer exists, as I'm pretty sure that the maximum allowed run (500?) will be manufactured and sent to CK. So thanks again
knifeswapper
for your efforts to make this a fair opportunity for your customers.I wonder if the 4 handle materials would allow for 4 different opportunities or days/times of day that they could be offered for reserve or rolled out. Not sure if something like that would make it any easier, or 4 times harder!
A Red Sawcut would look so cool next to this guy
...
If all this was true then there is no need for this discussion at all. Everyone can just go get what they "feel they need"
Trying to stay positive here, but at the same time, realistic...
I hope that Northwoods is not being usurped for leader of the lolly scramble. Now a lottery? ugh.
I'm not sure why things have to keep changing to "make it fair". It is unattainable.
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I for one appreciate the amount of effort you are putting into this to try to please your customers and implement a system that is fair and convienent for the most.
It's not lost on me that the simplest and easiest solution to your problem would be to significantly increase the price of the product.
That's not how Mike Latham rolls.
However this knife ends up being offered, let's recognize the effort and intent
I wonder if the 4 handle materials would allow for 4 different opportunities or days/times of day that they could be offered for reserve or rolled out. Not sure if something like that would make it any easier, or 4 times harder!
That idea has definite possibilities. I, for example, am only really interested in one cover option. If all 4 options were listed at different times, I wouldn't be soaking up any bandwidth on the other 3 covers.
Squidman24
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That's exactly what I said about the recent run of American Jack 78s..... I was apparently lying to myself.
The first thing I want to say is that I appreciate that Mike
knifeswapper
looks for customer input here. I have never gotten the feeling that he didn't try his best to do the best for the customers.
I can't see how this is good for you as a dealer or GEC as a producer in the long run. Yes, right now it will show loyalty to long time customers and big buyers. Who are those people? I think it's safe to say they're collectors who will continue to buy GEC knives no matter how they're sold, and without much regard to price. So there's not much benefit to swinging all of the favor in their direction. Treat them fairly of course, but to give them a large advantage is pointless, as they already are more informed and dedicated than new or less well funded buyers. But how will that affect new buyers and those with less disposable income? In the short run it would likely push them to other dealers, and in the long run I think it would push them away from GEC itself. I think GEC would do well for itself and the traditional knife market long term give real thought to increase production capacity.
I get that that's frustrating, but I don't think you'd lose many SFO customers on such frustrations. The 77 barlow specifically being that there's literally no other dealer to get it at, people are gonna keep coming back to get them. At the same time, you're guaranteed to sell 500 relatively high end knives in probably less than an hour. I'd have to imagine that the extra time in customer service and temporary additional server space is offset by the increase in sales and reduction in overhead and storage usage and risk. But I don't know and like I say I'm sure you're trying to find the best system you can.
I think a random draw will do very little to make anything any more fair. It certainly doesn't take a computer wiz to beat most random draw fairness assurances.
It takes a percentage of sales.
That's a nice gesture. Hope your random draw system works well and this helps to get it all worked out!
knifeswapper
looks for customer input here. I have never gotten the feeling that he didn't try his best to do the best for the customers.I can't see how this is good for you as a dealer or GEC as a producer in the long run. Yes, right now it will show loyalty to long time customers and big buyers. Who are those people? I think it's safe to say they're collectors who will continue to buy GEC knives no matter how they're sold, and without much regard to price. So there's not much benefit to swinging all of the favor in their direction. Treat them fairly of course, but to give them a large advantage is pointless, as they already are more informed and dedicated than new or less well funded buyers. But how will that affect new buyers and those with less disposable income? In the short run it would likely push them to other dealers, and in the long run I think it would push them away from GEC itself. I think GEC would do well for itself and the traditional knife market long term give real thought to increase production capacity.
I get that that's frustrating, but I don't think you'd lose many SFO customers on such frustrations. The 77 barlow specifically being that there's literally no other dealer to get it at, people are gonna keep coming back to get them. At the same time, you're guaranteed to sell 500 relatively high end knives in probably less than an hour. I'd have to imagine that the extra time in customer service and temporary additional server space is offset by the increase in sales and reduction in overhead and storage usage and risk. But I don't know and like I say I'm sure you're trying to find the best system you can.
I think a random draw will do very little to make anything any more fair. It certainly doesn't take a computer wiz to beat most random draw fairness assurances.
It takes a percentage of sales.
Friends with Benefits
I would like some help testing a Random Draw system. So at 4PM Central today (1/30) I will post a link on this thread for our friends to enter a giveaway. The first prize with be an EDC Northfield #773115 Old Tan Sawcut Barlow. Full disclosure: it is marked with an "S" due to a chigger bite on the bolster. There will be 5 runner up prizes of a $10 store credit.
That's a nice gesture. Hope your random draw system works well and this helps to get it all worked out!
I don't know what these sell for direct from Mike, but if I were Mike I would just list them on my site for like $250 each (or whatever is just above what they typically get flipped for), and lower the price maybe $10-$20 every week until I found the sweet spot that let people who wanted the knives (to use or collect) get them, but the flippers wouldn't be interested. Win-Win.
Mikes a nice guy, but seems to me like he is leaving lots of money on the table and many people that could be his customers are resentful of having to pay ultra premiums to get a knife they want, and customers who do lots of business with Mike are resentfuul of possibly being left out by luck of the draw when they are deserving of some deference.
Just a thought.
Mikes a nice guy, but seems to me like he is leaving lots of money on the table and many people that could be his customers are resentful of having to pay ultra premiums to get a knife they want, and customers who do lots of business with Mike are resentfuul of possibly being left out by luck of the draw when they are deserving of some deference.
Just a thought.
knifeswapper
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If it were up to me I would release it at the exact same minute as the next Northwoods release
That is one I had not thought about. I like it.
The flippers would be busy elsewhere..
I'll throw out another random thought that sounds silly at first, but maybe something to consider.. can you make people do puzzles? You know, the ones where you must pick all the images that are X before you proceed. Usually the ones I see ask me to pick all the pictures in the square that have a street sign, or have a storefront etc. Seems like it would slow things down. Maybe slow it down enough to were it wouldn't cause problems with the server, maybe easy to implement, maybe easy to remove later, maybe inexpensive? I'm guessing there's a selection of (I'm a human test) questions of varied difficulty. You could mix in some harder/longer questions with easy ones to space everyone out?
Leslie Tomville
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Leslie Tomville
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Our heads might explode!
Just trying to add a bit of humor here. As Dylan @Pàdruig often writes, this is a first world problem. We are so blessed to live in countries where we have the luxury to worry about a knife purchase, rather than our very survival and the survival of our families.
Of course, I do understand that this situation calls for decisions important to your business Mike
knifeswapper
.
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With the approach I suggested, that would be fairly easy, as most pages use Googles reCaptcha, but implenting it into other stuff could be a nontrivial task. But I don't think that it's actually needed, just make a form with seperate pages where people enter stuff and it'll spread things out a little bit
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