How strong is the Liner lock for Spyderco Military?

[singularity35]

Break out the peanut butter and jelly.....

 

[TheCarbideRat]

And pass the potato salad, but I was asked a question so here's the answer to it.

Pete1977: Mass adds the aspect of inertia to a hard user, as a mechanic i grew to appreciate inertia and movement, especially when removing some wheel studs from a very rusty truck years ago, the medium sized punch I was hammering away on would not budge the studs, my boss gave me a big old honkin punch, massive, and the studs gave way with a few blows each, same approximate force applied per blow as before, same hammer. This aspect of a hard use knife could be viewed as somewhat nebulous or unnecessary but in my opinion mass inertia in a hard use should be an equally important characteristic.

I'd put 6.5 or even 7oz. as the threshold weight, JMO. 8 to 11 as optimal.

 

[Pete1977]

And pass the potato salad, but I was asked a question so here's the answer to it.

Pete1977: Mass adds the aspect of inertia to a hard user, as a mechanic i grew to appreciate inertia and movement, especially when removing some wheel studs from a very rusty truck years ago, the medium sized punch I was hammering away on would not budge the studs, my boss gave me a big old honkin punch, massive, and the studs gave way with a few blows each, same approximate force applied per blow as before, same hammer. This aspect of a hard use knife could be viewed as somewhat nebulous or unnecessary but in my opinion mass inertia in a hard use should be an equally important characteristic.

I'd put 6.5 or even 7oz. as the threshold weight, JMO. 8 to 11 as optimal.

I will take your word for it TCR. That was way over my head

 

[cziv]

And pass the potato salad, but I was asked a question so here's the answer to it.

Pete1977: Mass adds the aspect of inertia to a hard user, as a mechanic i grew to appreciate inertia and movement, especially when removing some wheel studs from a very rusty truck years ago, the medium sized punch I was hammering away on would not budge the studs, my boss gave me a big old honkin punch, massive, and the studs gave way with a few blows each, same approximate force applied per blow as before, same hammer. This aspect of a hard use knife could be viewed as somewhat nebulous or unnecessary but in my opinion mass inertia in a hard use should be an equally important characteristic.

I'd put 6.5 or even 7oz. as the threshold weight, JMO. 8 to 11 as optimal.

Good post. :thumbup:

 

[powernoodle]

What is hard use? What is abuse? What are specific examples of both as applied to a folding knife?

Even with the tip of the military as is, I would qualify it as a "hard use" folding knife.

Yesterday I was using a metal detector to look for a missing earring, and whatever else I could find. When the metal detector would give me a hit, I would cut the sod (dried, hard ground) and dig for the hidden treasure. I did this with a CS Recon 1. Not the best thing for a knife, but its what I had on hand so I used it. I would not have done the digging with a Military. In my view, the Military is not something I would want to dig, pry or otherwise abuse, so I don't put it in that "hard use/abuse" genre. To me its a slicer, and a sweet one. But I can't imagine using it to dig a hole in hard, dry, rooty soil. Though I guess it could be done.

 

[Folderguy]

It's a cooking thing, not a tactical hard use death thing. As in, stick a fork in the cake and see if it is done...but you could use a knife; my wife sometimes does.

Lookin' like this beast won't die

 

[Folderguy]

Yesterday I was using a metal detector to look for a missing earring, and whatever else I could find. When the metal detector would give me a hit, I would cut the sod (dried, hard ground) and dig for the hidden treasure. I did this with a CS Recon 1. Not the best thing for a knife, but its what I had on hand so I used it. I would not have done the digging with a Military. In my view, the Military is not something I would want to dig, pry or otherwise abuse, so I don't put it in that "hard use/abuse" genre. To me its a slicer, and a sweet one. But I can't imagine using it to dig a hole in hard, dry, rooty soil. Though I guess it could be done.

Great comparison. :thumbup:

 

[Vess]

I just gotta chime in on this one. Going to be a long one, I apologize in advance.

I've used my old 440V SE Military for pretty much anything, from cutting steak to rigging holes to sawing through roots. The tip never broke, and I don't believe I've ever had the lock fail.

This knife has been through hell. I sheared the pocket clip off more than once, that's the old 2-screw clip, which I later converted to a 3-screw with larger diameter screws. Two of the screws in the handle fell out and had to be replaced with larger screws. Again, old model, the screws are different now and don't fall out nearly as easily. The serrations got worn off, it's so toothless that it's almost a plain edge now. The blade is scratched up something awful, you can barely read the writing on the blade because the top layer of steel got worn off, though it's hard to tell from the pictures. You name it, this knife has had it done to it.

And here's what it looks like today:

Now, let's look at the lock:

Is it pretty far gone over to the other side? Yeah. But keep in mind how old the knife is, and that is had absolutely zero maintenance in years aside from occasional sharpening. Still works. Just whacked the knife full force on the edge of the table, still holding. With enough pressure I can see the lockbar flex a bit, but it holds. The knife is full of dirt and mud and who knows what, but the lock still engages extremely reliably. That's gotta be tough enough.

There's also been a lot of talk in the thread about the tip being too delicate. I really don't believe it is as weak as some people seem to think. I mean, I've never been gentle with this knife, or my Catcherman, and yet I've never managed to break the tips off from either one.

Here's a tip comparison on my three most abused knives, going clockwise from left to right: SOG Pentagon, Spyderco Catcherman, old 440V SE Military, NIB S30V PE Military.

The Pentagon was used in house renovations. Yeah, I know, hardly ideal blade shape, but I found it just too convenient to have a full plain edge and a full serrated edge in the same knife at the same time. Cut carpeting with it, cut soundproofing with it (Safe'N'Sound), opened bags (including thick cement ones) and even caught other people prying with the tip as recently as last weekend. I actually found the knife in the toolbox, next to hammers and prybars. The blade got scratched up and developed a ton of rust spots, but otherwise stayed in great shape for what it's been through. It was a factory second, by the way, so stop looking at me like that!

The Catcherman was used to cut frozen seafood, three times daily, over the last three years. We used to have a large saltwater fish tank, and the fish was fed stuff like octopus, cuttlefish, shrimp, etc., all frozen of course.This may not sound like much, but essentially what we did was take out a large frozen block of baby cuttlefish, for example, then stab the Catcherman point-first into it and move the knife back and forth and side to side to try and chip off a piece large enough to cut into smaller bite-size pieces. As you can imagine, when the block gave way, the Catcherman was driven with considerable force, again point-first, into the cutting board below (usually plastic, sometimes wood). The tip never took any damage. The blade rusted a bit near the pivot, and developed a few spots, and the handle is full of gunk, but for the most part the tip of the knife held up superbly well.

The SE Military got it worse than any of the other knives. I've used it to cut carpet, cardboard, dig holes in the yard, saw through roots deep in the ground. Often it was just me kneeling on the ground, elbow-deep in the hole, sawing away at a root at the bottom, with roots being anywhere from 2-4" in diameter. The knife would come out covered in dirt and stuffed full of mud, I'd just smack it on the side of the shovel a few times to clear out most of it, fold it up, and leave it like that until next time. On occasion I'd hit a rock, a brick, a piece of porcelain or glass or some other junk the nice people who lived here before us saw fit to bury in the back yard. I've cut asphalt shingles with it, I've punched holes in those shingles with it. I've cut wire with it, and rope, and any packaging material known to man. I've pried staples (thick industrial ones) from cardboard boxes with it. You name it, I've done it.

Here's some upclose shots of the blades:

Bottom line is, if I had to dig a hole, would I be more comfortable with a shovel instead of a Military? Of course! If I had to choose between digging a hole with a Strider SMF or a Military, I'd go with the Strider, it's just thicker. But if all I had was the Military, would I hesitate even for a second before using it to dig a hole? Not at all. Is the tip more likely to break on the Millie than on a shovel? Yes, but I've yet to see it happen. Shovel is nice, but it's too heavy to EDC, not to mention people looking at you funny when you walk around with one! Strider SMF is tougher, but it's also roughly 30% heavier, has a far shorter cutting edge and ergonomics are not as great at least for my hands, not to mention it is much bulkier than the slim Military. Like Sal said, there's always a tradeoff somewhere.

To me personally, Military strikes a near-perfect balance of handle ergonomics, blade size, blade geometry and weight, all in a slim package. It may not be perfect, but what is? And is it tough? Certainly tough enough to go through anything I've put it through so far.

 

[JNewell]

With sincere respects for all those who post here and do videos, real world stories like this are worth at least as much as tests and videos and opinions from the armchair. It is not an accident that this knife has been around so long. :thumbup:

I just gotta chime in on this one. Going to be a long one, I apologize in advance.

I've used my old 440V SE Military for pretty much anything, from cutting steak to rigging holes to sawing through roots. The tip never broke, and I don't believe I've ever had the lock fail.

This knife has been through hell. I sheared the pocket clip off more than once, that's the old 2-screw clip, which I later converted to a 3-screw with larger diameter screws. Two of the screws in the handle fell out and had to be replaced with larger screws. Again, old model, the screws are different now and don't fall out nearly as easily. The serrations got worn off, it's so toothless that it's almost a plain edge now. The blade is scratched up something awful, you can barely read the writing on the blade because the top layer of steel got worn off, though it's hard to tell from the pictures. You name it, this knife has had it done to it.

And here's what it looks like today:

Now, let's look at the lock:

Is it pretty far gone over to the other side? Yeah. But keep in mind how old the knife is, and that is had absolutely zero maintenance in years aside from occasional sharpening. Still works. Just whacked the knife full force on the edge of the table, still holding. With enough pressure I can see the lockbar flex a bit, but it holds. The knife is full of dirt and mud and who knows what, but the lock still engages extremely reliably. That's gotta be tough enough.

There's also been a lot of talk in the thread about the tip being too delicate. I really don't believe it is as weak as some people seem to think. I mean, I've never been gentle with this knife, or my Catcherman, and yet I've never managed to break the tips off from either one.

Here's a tip comparison on my three most abused knives, going clockwise from left to right: SOG Pentagon, Spyderco Catcherman, old 440V SE Military, NIB S30V PE Military.

The Pentagon was used in house renovations. Yeah, I know, hardly ideal blade shape, but I found it just too convenient to have a full plain edge and a full serrated edge in the same knife at the same time. Cut carpeting with it, cut soundproofing with it (Safe'N'Sound), opened bags (including thick cement ones) and even caught other people prying with the tip as recently as last weekend. I actually found the knife in the toolbox, next to hammers and prybars. The blade got scratched up and developed a ton of rust spots, but otherwise stayed in great shape for what it's been through. It was a factory second, by the way, so stop looking at me like that!

The Catcherman was used to cut frozen seafood, three times daily, over the last three years. We used to have a large saltwater fish tank, and the fish was fed stuff like octopus, cuttlefish, shrimp, etc., all frozen of course.This may not sound like much, but essentially what we did was take out a large frozen block of baby cuttlefish, for example, then stab the Catcherman point-first into it and move the knife back and forth and side to side to try and chip off a piece large enough to cut into smaller bite-size pieces. As you can imagine, when the block gave way, the Catcherman was driven with considerable force, again point-first, into the cutting board below (usually plastic, sometimes wood). The tip never took any damage. The blade rusted a bit near the pivot, and developed a few spots, and the handle is full of gunk, but for the most part the tip of the knife held up superbly well.

The SE Military got it worse than any of the other knives. I've used it to cut carpet, cardboard, dig holes in the yard, saw through roots deep in the ground. Often it was just me kneeling on the ground, elbow-deep in the hole, sawing away at a root at the bottom, with roots being anywhere from 2-4" in diameter. The knife would come out covered in dirt and stuffed full of mud, I'd just smack it on the side of the shovel a few times to clear out most of it, fold it up, and leave it like that until next time. On occasion I'd hit a rock, a brick, a piece of porcelain or glass or some other junk the nice people who lived here before us saw fit to bury in the back yard. I've cut asphalt shingles with it, I've punched holes in those shingles with it. I've cut wire with it, and rope, and any packaging material known to man. I've pried staples (thick industrial ones) from cardboard boxes with it. You name it, I've done it.

Here's some upclose shots of the blades:

Bottom line is, if I had to dig a hole, would I be more comfortable with a shovel instead of a Military? Of course! If I had to choose between digging a hole with a Strider SMF or a Military, I'd go with the Strider, it's just thicker. But if all I had was the Military, would I hesitate even for a second before using it to dig a hole? Not at all. Is the tip more likely to break on the Millie than on a shovel? Yes, but I've yet to see it happen. Shovel is nice, but it's too heavy to EDC, not to mention people looking at you funny when you walk around with one! Strider SMF is tougher, but it's also roughly 30% heavier, has a far shorter cutting edge and ergonomics are not as great at least for my hands, not to mention it is much bulkier than the slim Military. Like Sal said, there's always a tradeoff somewhere.

To me personally, Military strikes a near-perfect balance of handle ergonomics, blade size, blade geometry and weight, all in a slim package. It may not be perfect, but what is? And is it tough? Certainly tough enough to go through anything I've put it through so far.

 

[JohnnyO]

So, how strong is the liner lock?

 

[TheCarbideRat]

OOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!![Johnny]

 

[J_Curd]

Are the new "hard use knuckledraggers" going to have the opening hole in the blade?

 

[brj]

I just gotta chime in on this one. Going to be a long one, I apologize in advance.

I've used my old 440V SE Military for pretty much anything, from cutting steak to rigging holes to sawing through roots. The tip never broke, and I don't believe I've ever had the lock fail.

This knife has been through hell. I sheared the pocket clip off more than once, that's the old 2-screw clip, which I later converted to a 3-screw with larger diameter screws. Two of the screws in the handle fell out and had to be replaced with larger screws. Again, old model, the screws are different now and don't fall out nearly as easily. The serrations got worn off, it's so toothless that it's almost a plain edge now. The blade is scratched up something awful, you can barely read the writing on the blade because the top layer of steel got worn off, though it's hard to tell from the pictures. You name it, this knife has had it done to it.

And here's what it looks like today:

Now, let's look at the lock:

Is it pretty far gone over to the other side? Yeah. But keep in mind how old the knife is, and that is had absolutely zero maintenance in years aside from occasional sharpening. Still works. Just whacked the knife full force on the edge of the table, still holding. With enough pressure I can see the lockbar flex a bit, but it holds. The knife is full of dirt and mud and who knows what, but the lock still engages extremely reliably. That's gotta be tough enough.

There's also been a lot of talk in the thread about the tip being too delicate. I really don't believe it is as weak as some people seem to think. I mean, I've never been gentle with this knife, or my Catcherman, and yet I've never managed to break the tips off from either one.

Here's a tip comparison on my three most abused knives, going clockwise from left to right: SOG Pentagon, Spyderco Catcherman, old 440V SE Military, NIB S30V PE Military.

The Pentagon was used in house renovations. Yeah, I know, hardly ideal blade shape, but I found it just too convenient to have a full plain edge and a full serrated edge in the same knife at the same time. Cut carpeting with it, cut soundproofing with it (Safe'N'Sound), opened bags (including thick cement ones) and even caught other people prying with the tip as recently as last weekend. I actually found the knife in the toolbox, next to hammers and prybars. The blade got scratched up and developed a ton of rust spots, but otherwise stayed in great shape for what it's been through. It was a factory second, by the way, so stop looking at me like that!

The Catcherman was used to cut frozen seafood, three times daily, over the last three years. We used to have a large saltwater fish tank, and the fish was fed stuff like octopus, cuttlefish, shrimp, etc., all frozen of course.This may not sound like much, but essentially what we did was take out a large frozen block of baby cuttlefish, for example, then stab the Catcherman point-first into it and move the knife back and forth and side to side to try and chip off a piece large enough to cut into smaller bite-size pieces. As you can imagine, when the block gave way, the Catcherman was driven with considerable force, again point-first, into the cutting board below (usually plastic, sometimes wood). The tip never took any damage. The blade rusted a bit near the pivot, and developed a few spots, and the handle is full of gunk, but for the most part the tip of the knife held up superbly well.

The SE Military got it worse than any of the other knives. I've used it to cut carpet, cardboard, dig holes in the yard, saw through roots deep in the ground. Often it was just me kneeling on the ground, elbow-deep in the hole, sawing away at a root at the bottom, with roots being anywhere from 2-4" in diameter. The knife would come out covered in dirt and stuffed full of mud, I'd just smack it on the side of the shovel a few times to clear out most of it, fold it up, and leave it like that until next time. On occasion I'd hit a rock, a brick, a piece of porcelain or glass or some other junk the nice people who lived here before us saw fit to bury in the back yard. I've cut asphalt shingles with it, I've punched holes in those shingles with it. I've cut wire with it, and rope, and any packaging material known to man. I've pried staples (thick industrial ones) from cardboard boxes with it. You name it, I've done it.

Here's some upclose shots of the blades:

Bottom line is, if I had to dig a hole, would I be more comfortable with a shovel instead of a Military? Of course! If I had to choose between digging a hole with a Strider SMF or a Military, I'd go with the Strider, it's just thicker. But if all I had was the Military, would I hesitate even for a second before using it to dig a hole? Not at all. Is the tip more likely to break on the Millie than on a shovel? Yes, but I've yet to see it happen. Shovel is nice, but it's too heavy to EDC, not to mention people looking at you funny when you walk around with one! Strider SMF is tougher, but it's also roughly 30% heavier, has a far shorter cutting edge and ergonomics are not as great at least for my hands, not to mention it is much bulkier than the slim Military. Like Sal said, there's always a tradeoff somewhere.

To me personally, Military strikes a near-perfect balance of handle ergonomics, blade size, blade geometry and weight, all in a slim package. It may not be perfect, but what is? And is it tough? Certainly tough enough to go through anything I've put it through so far.

took 11 pages and +200 posts to find the single useful post this thread offered :thumbup:

 

[Raining]

Vess - thank you for sharing your story - I really enjoyed reading it!

Your military looks incredible and well loved - extremely cool. Thanks again.

 

[Fredde90210]

took 11 pages and +200 posts to find the single useful post this thread offered :thumbup:

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[bchan77]

Vess, just to sidetrack a little based on your post.

Personally if I were to stick to Spyderco's offering I would opt for the Paramilitary or the Manix for the various tasks you mentioned. Both offer a stronger lock and a stronger tip (not that the Military is not a fine knife).

 

[TheCarbideRat]

took 11 pages and +200 posts to find the single useful post this thread offered :thumbup:

:jerkit: thanks for disrespecting everyone, including Sal Glesser. Dork of the week award to this guy?

Anyone second the motion?

 

[jill jackson]

:jerkit: thanks for disrespecting everyone, including Sal Glesser. Dork of the week award to this guy?

Anyone second the motion?

If he thinks that post is the only post useful in this thread it's his right I suppose. No need to insult him, just consider that the post does have some real life rough task usage stated and maybe that's all he meant by it.

 

[TheCarbideRat]

Point taken, however, he could have made it clear that the post in question was the only one useful to him, [if that really is the case anyway] by simply stating that, instead of leaving it open to interpetation as he did,

So which was it Mr. One Useful Post? Only useful to you, your friends, everyone....what?
What were you really trying to say? May we know?

 

[jill jackson]

Here's the same serrations unused for comparison to the worn knife.