How Taylor Brands ripped off a french designer under the name Smith & Wesson

LorenzoL said:
It is a disgrace for a maker using the venerable S&W name to do something like that.
Perceval, I hope they do not copy one of your great designs.
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Thanks a lot but we don't share the same economic reality with Jean-Pierre, nor with the biggest brand like spiderco, victorinox, etc.

Big brands have multiple designs and models, names and styles are known enough for the customer to seek which is the real.

Perceval have simple designs so the focus is on quality. If you find some knives with also a simple design but with a nasty finishing, I guess you won't purchase it. That is the reason why copy is not a concurrence for us.

Jean-Pierre works at a very smaller scale. He produces alone. His knives are of high quality of course, but the main interest considering his market, is the originality of his design and of his system. That was the two lever he could use for his knives to be known. Both were copied by Taylor Brands.

Most of people will find the S&W at first and won't even imagine if there is a "true one" somewhere.
 
perceval said:
Most of people will find the S&W at first and won't even imagine if there is a "true one" somewhere.
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This is the reason why (even if there is nothing to do on a legal level) it makes sense to open a thread like this one here : just to let know that "this is a copy", and "here is the original custom piece of work". After that everyone can make his own opinion.

But anyway, thank you guys for the very positive feedback.
 
The Perceval knife looks just like the Kiss knife the way it works &size steel ect.I think this is type of copy?
 
Are you kidding ?

Can you compare in right proportions the resemblance between the T45/Kiss and the one between 12gauge/caliber12 ?
 
DVM said:
The Perceval knife looks just like the Kiss knife the way it works &size steel ect.I think this is type of copy?
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Actually, you are comparing two different knives, here. A "copy" means really the same knife, which means same blade, same handle. Not just "more or less the same system" ! :) For example, a tanto blade is not a drop point ! (in case somebody could have missed this point !) ;)
 
DVM said:
Yes for sure the concept of the KIss was taken from CRK any one can see this.
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First of all, the Kiss is made by CRKT, second CRKT did not design it, it was Ed Halligan.
The two knives share the same principle, a frame lock on a single side, leaving the blade exposed. Honestly, I do not know who came up with this concept first, Ed Halligan, Perceval or somebody else before them.
I have had my Perceval for almost 10 years, it is not a new design, and I never saw anybody calling it a rip-off of somebody else's design before.
Furthermore, besides the common concept, the two knives do not even look alike. It is like calling every framelock a rip-off of Chris Reeve's design.
 
LorenzoL said:
First of all, the Kiss is made by CRKT, second CRKT did not design it, it was Ed Halligan.
The two knives share the same principle, a frame lock on a single side, leaving the blade exposed. Honestly, I do not know who came up with this concept first, Ed Halligan, Perceval or somebody else before them.
I have had my Perceval for almost 10 years, it is not a new design, and I never saw anybody calling it a rip-off of somebody else's design before.
Furthermore, besides the common concept, the two knives do not even look alike. It is like calling every framelock a rip-off of Chris Reeve's design.
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Kiss came first. The T45 is freely inspired from it, it is not a secret.

The system of the kiss was original but not revolutionary. As I said the liner (and its frame variation) is an ancient system

imperiallinercz.jpg
 
Taken the concept from CRKT or Halligan on the exposed blade I would think this could wrong. Did CRKT not have patent on this?
 
I don't know if either CRKT or Ed Halligan had a patent or not, but the Gerber Ridgeline & Schrade Simple Simon were closer to the KISS knives than the T-45.
 
It is a shame there seems to be a huge lack of respect for copyright infringement. I was on site taking pictures to create a report, and my camera batteries died. I went one block up the street to get some double A batteries at a convenience store. The batteries said Duracell, but the package did not have Duracell on it, just the correct colors. I opened the batteries and they had Chinese characters on it. I guess on principle, I should have returned them. Since I was in a hurry, I went on to finish my work. Apathy is what allows this to occur. I am just as guilty. It goes up clear up to our law makers. If knock offs were not tolerated, they would cease to exist. Great post to the OP.
 
DVM said:
Taken the concept from CRKT or Halligan on the exposed blade I would think this could wrong. Did CRKT not have patent on this?
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friend, we are out of the topic here, IMHO : the Alias is no more a copy of the Sebenza than the Lochsa ! Even if they share something in common with the Sebbie (for example, framelock and titanium handles !). Inspiration is not copy. If "Smith and Wesson" had made another gun-knife, but with a Thomson machine gun design or whatever you want, as long as its different from the "Calibre 12", it would not have been a copy at all, but just inspiration, and there would be nothing to complain about.
Show the Kiss and the T45 to your parents, your little sister or your neighbors, and please ask them if they are the same ! ;)
 
More than that, may I recall you that the blade of the 12 gauge fits exactly the handle of the calibre 12 ? that means the system is the exact copy.
 
maxinigrad said:
And here's the version Taylor Brands/S&W is manufacturing in China and selling with NO credit or recognition whatsoever (finantial or other) to Jean-Pierre's work.



Unfortunately Jean-Pierre had patented the design in France and Europe but not the rest of the world for financial reason but S&W took care of that by just grabing the design and patenting it wordwide and guess what?!
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How do you know that the French dude did not get compensated?
Has he publicly stated that?

What about Asia?
Do you have any links to the French/Europe patents on the design?
How do you know he didn't get a patent in The U.S. for "financial reasons"?

Show me the info, and not some speculation on other forums.....
 
Trent Rock said:
How do you know that the French dude did not get compensated?
Has he publicly stated that?

What about Asia?
Do you have any links to the French/Europe patents on the design?
How do you know he didn't get a patent in The U.S. for "financial reasons"?

Show me the info, and not some speculation on other forums.....
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Are you serious or are you high on something?:jerkit:
 
Trent Rock,

I know personally Jean Pierre Béal. He didn't get any money from S&W nor from any brand for his design and system.

He is not in business nor in any kind of relationship with Asia.

To say it clearly, he is clean. Taylor brands stole his knife, that's it.
 
I was informed that Jim Taylor is a member of this site and I was going to contact him asking about the knife and to point him to this thread to see if he responds. However, he is not set up to receive emails or PMs so I can't do that.

I would really like an explanation from his side.
 
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