How To Spot A Fake

Jakeywax31 said:
Not gonna lie. I would’ve fallen for every knife posted so far 😂😂😂. Look forward to learning. Thanks
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Except that Winchester Congress posted and the 80's Catt with the modern hollow ground pen blade I would have as well.
What I'm most curious about is the origins of the knives, because they've all pretty much seemed to be quite well made and I'm wondering where exactly they'd have come from.
 
danno50 said:
The trouble with using ebay links, is that after a certain time the listing no longer shows and the pics are unavailable. I used to be able to right click an ebay image and save it as a jpeg to my desktop. However, now the only option it gives me is to save them as a webpage image, which doesn't do us any good.
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I can " download image " and share them via Postimage .
 
I've came across quite a few Lockwood Bro's. fakes on ebay. Here's a Fake vs. Original Lockwood comparison. Pay close attention to the mechanically engraved blade stamp. It's almost comical.

Fake:
Screenshot-20240626-160448-Gallery.jpg
Screenshot-20240626-160335-Gallery.jpg
Screenshot-20240626-160217-Gallery.jpg
Clipped-image-20240626-160102.png



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Original:
Screenshot-20240626-163845-Gallery.jpg


Screenshot-20240626-163834-Gallery.jpg

Screenshot-20240626-163919-Gallery.jpg
Screenshot-20240626-164003-Gallery.jpg

Screenshot-20240626-164322-Gallery.jpg
 
Here are two Keen Kutters that I posted in the Counterfeit Watch thread over on the other knife forum. They were both ebay auctions, quite a few years ago, by the same seller. First thing that jumped out at me were the shields. I have never seen a shield, with such a fat bottom and narrow waist, on a Keen Kutter. The fact that there were two together, by the same seller, was suspect to me. The blades on both have been cleaned and buffed, yet, the tang stamps are, for the most part, quite clean and sharp. The tang lines all rise as they approach the backs of the blades. This can, not always, be a sign of a shaved and restamped tang.
One of the biggest flags, to me, is the spun pins. Neither knife has a pattern number stamp. In my research, the older knives, made by Walden, either had no pattern number, or had an etched pattern number at the top of the pile side of the master blade, near the tang stamp. I would expect the pins on such knives to be hand hammered, not spun.
Eric ea42 ea42 also pointed out that it is very rare for a Keen Kutter sleeve board jack to have the pen blade, and it's nick, on the pile side of the knife (as it is on the second jack). I have since gone through all of my jacks, all of the photos in Sellens guide to Keen Kutters, and all of my ebay reference photos, and I would extend this characteristic to all Keen Kutter jacks.







 
danno50 said:
Here are two Keen Kutters that I posted in the Counterfeit Watch thread over on the other knife forum. They were both ebay auctions, quite a few years ago, by the same seller. First thing that jumped out at me were the shields. I have never seen a shield, with such a fat bottom and narrow waist, on a Keen Kutter. The fact that there were two together, by the same seller, was suspect to me. The blades on both have been cleaned and buffed, yet, the tang stamps are, for the most part, quite clean and sharp. The tang lines all rise as they approach the backs of the blades. This can, not always, be a sign of a shaved and restamped tang.
One of the biggest flags, to me, is the spun pins. Neither knife has a pattern number stamp. In my research, the older knives, made by Walden, either had no pattern number, or had an etched pattern number at the top of the pile side of the master blade, near the tang stamp. I would expect the pins on such knives to be hand hammered, not spun.
Eric ea42 ea42 also pointed out that it is very rare for a Keen Kutter sleeve board jack to have the pen blade, and it's nick, on the pile side of the knife (as it is on the second jack). I have since gone through all of my jacks, all of the photos in Sellens guide to Keen Kutters, and all of my ebay reference photos, and I would extend this characteristic to all Keen Kutter jacks.







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Keen Kutter is one of the brands I've stopped bothering to look at on ebay. It seems there are more fakes than authentic ones listed.
Without knowing much about the brand, I can tell those just look wrong.
 
Jakeywax31 said:
Damn. I think I’m gonna stop buying vintage on eBay. Way out of my league. This thread has opened my eyes.
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If you wanna know what fake vintage knives look like, go on Ebay and look up Sportcolbs / Dusty Duck Collectibles. I know who this guy is, he has been selling fakes for years and at one time worked for Jim Parker. He was selling Parker repro knives as the real thing.......🙄
 
Arathol said:
If you wanna know what fake vintage knives look like, go on Ebay and look up Sportcolbs / Dusty Duck Collectibles. I know who this guy is, he has been selling fakes for years and at one time worked for Jim Parker. He was selling Parker repro knives as the real thing.......🙄
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I’ll check it out. Thank you for the education.
 
danno50 said:
Here are two Keen Kutters that I posted in the Counterfeit Watch thread over on the other knife forum. They were both ebay auctions, quite a few years ago, by the same seller. First thing that jumped out at me were the shields. I have never seen a shield, with such a fat bottom and narrow waist, on a Keen Kutter. The fact that there were two together, by the same seller, was suspect to me. The blades on both have been cleaned and buffed, yet, the tang stamps are, for the most part, quite clean and sharp. The tang lines all rise as they approach the backs of the blades. This can, not always, be a sign of a shaved and restamped tang.
One of the biggest flags, to me, is the spun pins. Neither knife has a pattern number stamp. In my research, the older knives, made by Walden, either had no pattern number, or had an etched pattern number at the top of the pile side of the master blade, near the tang stamp. I would expect the pins on such knives to be hand hammered, not spun.
Eric ea42 ea42 also pointed out that it is very rare for a Keen Kutter sleeve board jack to have the pen blade, and it's nick, on the pile side of the knife (as it is on the second jack). I have since gone through all of my jacks, all of the photos in Sellens guide to Keen Kutters, and all of my ebay reference photos, and I would extend this characteristic to all Keen Kutter jacks.







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Very instructive thanks. But that shield is almost comical, looks like a gut distended with flatulence :eek:🤣

Very suspicious ultra clear stampings and contemporary pins yes. One word of warning to others though, this knife may well look suspicious in this cleaned up state but if it were patinated, let to get dirty looking for a few months faux ageing then it might no be so apparent . But again, those shields.....


Thanks, Will
 
Campbellclanman said:
Here is a knife to cast your eyes over...

www.ebay.com

OLD ANTIQUE VINTAGE WALDEN KNIFE CO OPPOSITE END HARNESS PUNCH JACK KNIFE | eBay

3 5/8" CLOSED, MARKED WALDEN KNIFE CO ON MASTER, PUNCH BLADE HAS PATTERN # 235622 ON IT, STRANGE PATTERN, HAS SOME WEAR & HAS BEEN CLEANED, VERY TIGHT, GOOD STRONG SNAP, NO WOBBLE, NICE WORM GROOVE BONE, NO CRACKS.
www.ebay.com
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Sorry Duncan, other than the pivot pin for the main blade being visible, I can't see anything wrong with that knife?? The stamped pattern number throws me off a bit. I have never seen a Walden Knife Co. made Keen Kutter with a stamped pattern number, but, I have seen other Walden Knife Co. stamped knives with a stamped pattern number?
Just noticed the pattern number is on the punch. Is it the punch that causes you to suspect this knife??
 
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The idea for a thread like this pops up regularly on other threads ("should I tell someone when they post a pic of something I think is fake?") and I'm glad it's happening - I love the idea of this thread.

But just posting a link to ebay with no discussion at all doesn't really tell me how to spot a fake. (Plus, it puts a very short shelf-life on this thread, because eventually that link will be broken.) It would be more instructive to suggest what we might look for that tell us it's a fake.

For example, the first post on this thread over on AAPK goes into detail about how to spot a fake Russell barlow. I was hoping for something along those lines, but a bit more general. I think the pool of available knowledge here is huge, and I hope that the less experienced people (including me!) get to learn from that pool.
 
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danno50 said:
Sorry Duncan, other than the pivot pin for the main blade being visible, I can't see anything wrong with that knife?? The stamped pattern number throws me off a bit. I have never seen a Walden Knife Co. made Keen Kutter with a stamped pattern number, but, I have seen other Walden Knife Co. stamped knives with a stamped pattern number?
Just noticed the pattern number is on the punch. Is it the punch that causes you to suspect this knife??
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This sort of thing is not my bag as I don't buy old knives. So this is pretty much a shot in the dark. But there are things in those photos that look wrong to me. They look doctored. I have the advantage of using a 20" monitor and I clicked on each eBay picture to enlarge it.
first pic - agree that the pivot pin does not fit the knife. Shield looks like it is sitting high instead of inset.
3rd pic - when enlarged there are breaks in the "W" in walden. Somebody appears to have doctored the stamp. And the font on the second line does not match the font on the first line. The lines are thinner on the second line.
4th pic - when enlarged, the "2" appears to have been been stamped over pre-existing scratches.

Note:
Most browsers will let you right click an image and allow you to save it on your computer. If it were I, I would then put insert the saved images in a Word doc then write comments about what they show. Word will let you annotate photos to add pointer arrows. Time consuming, but if I were serious about hunting for legit old knives, I think it would be worth the time and effort.
 
knarfeng said:
This sort of thing is not my bag as I don't buy old knives. So this is pretty much a shot in the dark. But there are things in those photos that look wrong to me. They look doctored. I have the advantage of using a 20" monitor and I clicked on each eBay picture to enlarge it.
first pic - agree that the pivot pin does not fit the knife. Shield looks like it is sitting high instead of inset.
3rd pic - when enlarged there are breaks in the "W" in walden. Somebody appears to have doctored the stamp. And the font on the second line does not match the font on the first line. The lines are thinner on the second line.
4th pic - when enlarged, the "2" appears to have been been stamped over pre-existing scratches.

Note:
Most browsers will let you right click an image and allow you to save it on your computer. If it were I, I would then put insert the saved images in a Word doc then write comments about what they show. Word will let you annotate photos to add pointer arrows. Time consuming, but if I were serious about hunting for legit old knives, I think it would be worth the time and effort.
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I also have a 20" monitor and enlarged the pictures. I believe there are other things, such as using the blade to pry, that can cause the pivot pin to show. Certainly, it can be an indication of a messed with knife, but not always. The shield is pinned (visible in the 1st pic) and I believe it is fine. I think the stamp is alright as well. If you look at the E and the N on Walden, the corners are square, as they should be. I believe it was a worn stamp that was not evenly struck on the tang, resulting in the perceived differences in font. There are scratches through the 2 in the pattern stamp, I can't tell if they are over or under the stamp.
 
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danno50 said:
I believe that ebay must have changed the way they host the photos. From any other site I can still right click an image and save it as a jpeg to my desktop, but, it is driving me nuts that I can no longer do that with an ebay image.
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Right click > copy image
Open MS Paint, under the HOME tab click PASTE, then click paste again in the drop-down menu.
The picture will appear in the window, then File > SAVE AS
 
Arathol said:
Right click > copy image
Open MS Paint, under the HOME tab click PASTE, then click paste again in the drop-down menu.
The picture will appear in the window, then File > SAVE AS
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I run Linux instead of Windows, but if I select "copy image" from the right click menu instead of "save image as", I can paste the picture directly into a "Libre Office Writer" document. I suspect that if running Windows with Microsoft Office, you could select "copy image" and paste it directly into a Word doc.

danno50 danno50
I will defer to your expertise in the matter, since you have seen multiple pictures of Keencutters and I have not. But I did evaluate metallurgical pictures of damaged parts as part of my job. The scratches appear to be under the "2" to me.
 
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