How To Spot A Fake

glennbad said:
The blades give me pause, but more for the funky looking choils on both. The aging looks decent throughout to me...meaning the bone wear is consistent with the blade use and the condition of the liners, bolsters, springs. The bone also has gaps at the corners of the liners that you might see on a user that has survived years of use. The pivot pin looks a little smooshed, but that could just be some owner trying to keep everything together where it looks like the liners have gotten spread.

The blades, while they have use on them, also look to have been re-shaped possibly?

I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on the tang stamps...
Click to expand...
thanks for the comments Glen glennbad glennbad . The choils certainly do look too large. I estimate the main blade to be down about 20%. I assumed that whoever had cleaned up the blades had cut new choils, however, they are dark inside and don't look to have been altered?? I think I might have my pin terminology wrong. I assume what you are calling the pivot pin is the pin through the spring, which is spread out a bit on the pile side? I have always called this the spring pin and the pin through the bolster and the blades the pivot pin? Is this wrong?
When you say reshaped blades, are you referring to reshaping other than normal from use and sharpening? This may have been done by whoever cleaned up the blades?

To add a bit more information: the blades both have good action on both opening and closing; there is no blade play in any direction on either blade. There is a catalog pic of this knife on page 82 of the Ritchie and Stewart Cattaraugus catalog reprint. The main blade is the right one for this knife.

waynorth said:
It looks like a less than fully trained technician, replaced the blade - maybe trying to save the tang stamp, but fit the blade?? Could have found a Catt blade to do this!!??
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply Charlie waynorth waynorth . From the catalog reprint and two knives posted by a member over on the other forum, the blade is the proper one for this knife. If it has been replaced, it was with the proper blade. The pin is slightly visible and the main blade may have been changed. I really can't explain the grinding on the spine of the tang. I have used a caliper to measure the spring and the thickest part of the tang spine and it wasn't really necessary to make that grind to fit the blade?

Here are two more Cattaraugus 22899 knives, which the member who posted them on AAPK has given me permission to post here.





 
danno50 said:
Here are two more Cattaraugus 22899 knives, which the member who posted them on AAPK has given me permission to post here.
Click to expand...
Have you seen pictures of the spring-to-blade fit on these two knives??
 
Yes, sorry, I meant the spring pin...the blades just don't look "right" to me. It's hard to explain what I mean, but I assume someone like yourself that has looked at a lot of knives, when you look at a knife with the blades open, it should have a certain look. That's not what I see on this one. Not to say it's bad or a fake, but the blades look to have been recut/reground/reshaped.
 
glennbad said:
Yes, sorry, I meant the spring pin...the blades just don't look "right" to me. It's hard to explain what I mean, but I assume someone like yourself that has looked at a lot of knives, when you look at a knife with the blades open, it should have a certain look. That's not what I see on this one. Not to say it's bad or a fake, but the blades look to have been recut/reground/reshaped.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification, Glen. I am sure that you have looked at way more knives than I have. I understand what you are saying about the blades and would agree with you that they have been reshaped, and cleaned. The fit of the main blade has also been messed with, however, it is not as bad in hand as the pictures make it look.
I am reasonably sure that the parts are all original Cattaraugus, however, with all the questions about it, I believe that I will decline to pass it on to a friend. Maybe I will scratch or vibraetch a couple of question marks in to the blade, sharpen it up and carry it.
 
danno50 said:
Thanks for the clarification, Glen. I am sure that you have looked at way more knives than I have. I understand what you are saying about the blades and would agree with you that they have been reshaped, and cleaned. The fit of the main blade has also been messed with, however, it is not as bad in hand as the pictures make it look.
I am reasonably sure that the parts are all original Cattaraugus, however, with all the questions about it, I believe that I will decline to pass it on to a friend. Maybe I will scratch or vibraetch a couple of question marks in to the blade, sharpen it up and carry it.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't scratch anything into that blade, you'll be ruining what may in fact be a perfectly good knife. The knife looks fine to me other than perhaps a little extra filing on the choil. I don't think that funky ground portion had anything to do with someone being sneaky about fitting a blade in there. The grind is just at the corner of the tang and not even between the handles and actually makes for a sloppy looking fitment when the blade is open so I think it was more than likely something that was erroneously done by a previous owner or perhaps a slip at the factory. Discounting that ground corner the widths of the spring and blade back are a match and the blade is nicely in line with the spine when open. The spotting and age on the blade backs and spring seem to match nicely as well.

Eric
 
ea42 said:
I wouldn't scratch anything into that blade, you'll be ruining what may in fact be a perfectly good knife. The knife looks fine to me other than perhaps a little extra filing on the choil. I don't think that funky ground portion had anything to do with someone being sneaky about fitting a blade in there. The grind is just at the corner of the tang and not even between the handles and actually makes for a sloppy looking fitment when the blade is open so I think it was more than likely something that was erroneously done by a previous owner or perhaps a slip at the factory. Discounting that ground corner the widths of the spring and blade back are a match and the blade is nicely in line with the spine when open. The spotting and age on the blade backs and spring seem to match nicely as well.

Eric
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for that comment, Eric. I appreciate it and will take your advice.
 
Here's one that is obvious. At least they admit that it is cobbled together with parts; looking at the blades I think they are new blades welded onto old tangs. Whoever did the blades did a very good job. I don't know how close to an original they did with the master, but the secondary blade sure looks funky.

www.ebay.com

CATTARAUGUS LITTLE VALLEY NY Pocket Knife from Parts SERPENTINE JACK Stag NM | eBay

LITTLE VALLEY N.Y.” is stamped on both blades. The word “CATTARAUGUS” is arched, the rest of the stamp is straight line. Made in: Little Valley, New York, U.S.A (Cattaraugus parts) and unknown (other parts).
www.ebay.com
 
lambertiana said:
Here's one that is obvious. At least they admit that it is cobbled together with parts; looking at the blades I think they are new blades welded onto old tangs. Whoever did the blades did a very good job. I don't know how close to an original they did with the master, but the secondary blade sure looks funky.

www.ebay.com

CATTARAUGUS LITTLE VALLEY NY Pocket Knife from Parts SERPENTINE JACK Stag NM | eBay

LITTLE VALLEY N.Y.” is stamped on both blades. The word “CATTARAUGUS” is arched, the rest of the stamp is straight line. Made in: Little Valley, New York, U.S.A (Cattaraugus parts) and unknown (other parts).
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
Fair or not, I am always extra suspicious of listings by sellers in Tennessee.
 
My coworkers gave me this Buck 110 that he found in a storage unit auction. The markings on the show side seem correct. And I know the "U" means it was made in 1998.

My concern is the off side of the blade doesn't have a bevil edge, so it basically a hollow grind that is also chisel ground. Based on some quick googling, Buck hasn't done chisel grounds on their 110s.

Is this fake???

https://imgur.com/K1AUiVM
https://imgur.com/ajICnTW
https://imgur.com/6IO7Jd5
 
Caffeinepirate said:
My coworkers gave me this Buck 110 that he found in a storage unit auction. The markings on the show side seem correct. And I know the "U" means it was made in 1998.

My concern is the off side of the blade doesn't have a bevil edge, so it basically a hollow grind that is also chisel ground. Based on some quick googling, Buck hasn't done chisel grounds on their 110s.

Is this fake???

https://imgur.com/K1AUiVM
https://imgur.com/ajICnTW
https://imgur.com/6IO7Jd5
Click to expand...

Interesting. So the pile side is hollow ground to a zero edge? I wonder if they forgot to put a bevel on that side. I don't see any other red flags. You could also post this in the fakes thread in the Buck subforum.
 
Here's a completed auction for something that I spotted. I would like to hear from the experts on this one...I'm no Remington expert by any stretch. I only see a few possible red flags, nothing major (and they might just be my imagination), but something about this knife just bothers me, and I can't put my finger on it.

www.ebay.com

Remington R1123 Brown Bone Bullet Trapper Pocket Knife 3610 | eBay

Tang Stamp: Remington R1123 (on both blades). Handles: The back handle has two hairline pin cracks at the lanyard hole. The front handle has no cracks. It appears as though a previous owner maybe used a file to carve out tiny notches on the handle.
www.ebay.com
 
lambertiana said:
Here's a completed auction for something that I spotted. I would like to hear from the experts on this one...I'm no Remington expert by any stretch. I only see a few possible red flags, nothing major (and they might just be my imagination), but something about this knife just bothers me, and I can't put my finger on it.

www.ebay.com

Remington R1123 Brown Bone Bullet Trapper Pocket Knife 3610 | eBay

Tang Stamp: Remington R1123 (on both blades). Handles: The back handle has two hairline pin cracks at the lanyard hole. The front handle has no cracks. It appears as though a previous owner maybe used a file to carve out tiny notches on the handle.
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
Could you tell us what you see as possible red flags?
 
danno50 said:
Could you tell us what you see as possible red flags?
Click to expand...

Again, these may just be my imagination, but here goes.

1. Bullet shield has extra line at the base.
2. It's hard to tell because they are at different angles and one is slightly out of focus, but the pattern number stamps do not appear to be identical.
3. The pattern number stamp on the clip blade (slightly out of focus) appears to have raised areas around the digits, leading to wear spots without patina around them. This can be a sign of cold stamping.
4. The digits in the pattern number stamps are not in a line.
5. The font size and positioning of the Made In USA on the tang stamp is different from the pristine example that Charlie has posted.

The blades have been polished/buffed, so I can't tell if there ever was a glaze finish, which the real 1123s had. And you can't see enough of the etch to compare with real knives. I know there are clues in the blade etch that experts can tease out.

Not being a Remington expert, I don't know if these could be normal variations. But I would want an evaluation by someone more knowledgeable before putting that much money into a knife.
 
Interesting observations, thanks. I have no answers for any of them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top