How To Spot A Fake

[Alex.Y.]

I believe there are other things, such as using the blade to pry, that can cause the pivot pin to show.

I always thought that simply opening and closing the blade a few dozen times could cause pivot pin to appear visible. At least that's my personal experience from modern knives (GEC, for example), still it polishes invisible again with a couple of moves with mere piece of cloth, at least when not heavily used. Please correct me if I am wrong, for that's an interesting detail to know.

 

[SteveC]

If you use chrome there is a extension that lets you convert to a jpg from a webpage image

https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/convert-webp-to-jpg/lioppfcbaohgghplacfgajfhbpmlhnbc?hl=en

 

[r8shell]

You should be able to do a screenshot and save it as a jpeg. On a windows desktop, I think it's called a "snipping tool" Control+Shift+M

 

[danno50]

Figured it out. The Mac OS also has a snipping/screeenshot tool, which seems to work quite well. Here are the images from the auction posted by Duncan Campbellclanman .

 

[danno50]

This book is an excellent resource. It was originally published for the NKCA. You used to get a free copy for joining the NKCA. There are currently 26 copies for sale on the internet, can't mention the site, but, easy to find.

 

[danno50]

Here are the pics from the first auction posted by galvanic1882 .

 

[r8shell]

Thanks, danno50 , that's very helpful.

As far as the knife in question, without knowing anything about what kind of stamps it should have, I can see the main blade has had a bad encounter with a grinding wheel.

 

[danno50]

The pics from the second Cattaraugus auction posted by galvanic1882

 

[waynorth]

At a price "too good to be True", I bought this Fake NYK years ago, now gone!!
NYK never made this knife, but a talented counterfeiter did!!

 

[Campbellclanman]

Sorry Duncan, other than the pivot pin for the main blade being visible, I can't see anything wrong with that knife?? The stamped pattern number throws me off a bit. I have never seen a Walden Knife Co. made Keen Kutter with a stamped pattern number, but, I have seen other Walden Knife Co. stamped knives with a stamped pattern number?
Just noticed the pattern number is on the punch. Is it the punch that causes you to suspect this knife??

Hey Dan
Yes the Punch, plus a few other wee things- but I am not a Walden expert- nor am I an expert at anything else really

The Punch is the more commonly used Robeson Styled Punch, with that Patten Number on it, also the Pile side of the Main has been ground right down - over the Tang as far in as possible- and looking at the Kick on the Main- Pile side again looks to be remnants of having been punched to extend the kick down ?- looks as though the grinding was done after?- again unsure, also Pile side again - the Kick on the Punch has been angled of as if to give clearance- no healthy blade fitting knife should have any of this.
Did the Walden Knives use a punch like the Robeson, I am unsure they did.

Another question I have is why do sellers never show the Blades open against the Spring - Downward shot of the Spine to see if the Blades match thicknesses etc.?

 

[meako]

Not an expert he says...

 

[danno50]

Hey Dan
Yes the Punch, plus a few other wee things- but I am not a Walden expert- nor am I an expert at anything else really

The Punch is the more commonly used Robeson Styled Punch, with that Patten Number on it, also the Pile side of the Main has been ground right down - over the Tang as far in as possible- and looking at the Kick on the Main- Pile side again looks to be remnants of having been punched to extend the kick down ?- looks as though the grinding was done after?- again unsure, also Pile side again - the Kick on the Punch has been angled of as if to give clearance- no healthy blade fitting knife should have any of this.
Did the Walden Knives use a punch like the Robeson, I am unsure they did.

Another question I have is why do sellers never show the Blades open against the Spring - Downward shot of the Spine to see if the Blades match thicknesses etc.?

Hey Duncan, you don't have to be a Walden expert to read the knife. You raised many good points, in my mind the punch is the biggest. I looked up Robeson pattern numbers and the 235 indicates a rosewood handled knife with 3 blades and nickel silver bolsters and liners, definitely out of place on this knife.
Even after embarrassing myself many times, I am still way too quick to hit the "post reply" button.

 

[danno50]

At a price "too good to be True", I bought this Fake NYK years ago, now gone!!
NYK never made this knife, but a talented counterfeiter did!!View attachment 2605556View attachment 2605557

Would have been a nice knife if the counterfeiter had stamped his own name on it, instead of trying to pass it off as something it isn't
Here are 3 more fake eureka jacks that were on the auction site a few years ago. A John Primble, Maher & Grosch and a Cattaraugus

 

[lambertiana]

At a price "too good to be True", I bought this Fake NYK years ago, now gone!!
NYK never made this knife, but a talented counterfeiter did!!View attachment 2605556View attachment 2605557

Would have been a nice knife if the counterfeiter had stamped his own name on it, instead of trying to pass it off as something it isn't
Here are 3 more fake eureka jacks that were on the auction site a few years ago. A John Primble, Maher & Grosch and a Cattaraugus

Could you elaborate? What are the signs of being a fake? I can think of a few, but what do you say?

 

[danno50]

All three were discussed on the other forum quite a few years ago. At the time they probably would have fooled me, might still if looked at individually. These were the only pictures I saved and they don't show some of the issues very well. Parroting the consensus of the discussion:

blades look like modern blades not old
tang stamps have rounded corners on the ends of the letters and look too new
bolsters are poorly finished for a premier pattern, insides of the rattails and other details are not well polished
no swedges on any of the blades, should have swedges on a premier pattern
eureka jack is a commonly counterfeited pattern
jigging is not right - to me especially on the Catt
three knives, all identical except for the shield, with different maker's stamps is suspicious

One member of the discussion believed that these were all made in Germany, by Parker. Germanly was inked on the back of the blade and easily wiped off?

I went back and found the discussion and saved a couple more pictures of the Primble and Catt stamps. The Catt pic also shows the poor polish inside the rattail.

 

[Campbellclanman]

What a fantastic thread!
We are all going to learn so much from this.

Especially when we have such amazing knowledgeable collectors here who are so eager to share with us their knowledge and help us with their opinions.

Lol - Dan - what you ever post is fantastic- It’s me who hits that post button far too quickly- next minute I have the embarrassment in thinking “ What was I thinking”

To see the quality of the knife that Charlie and yourself Dan post with those Catts, Maher & Grosh and Primbles- oh boy!
They are good looking knives within themselves - I imagine our very own Glen Badd could make those knives and stamp his name to the game and they would be right up there ( and so they should deserve to be - food for thought Glenn )

I have seen ( and own a few ) knives where it seems like the Punches are the favourites to bang into a knife- Charlie raised an extremely knowledgeable point and said it’s not as though there is an abundance of Punches floating around - so I am thinking the easiest place to get a Punch is from a broken Scout ? Who knows what these people do, but it is Gutting!

 

[Campbellclanman]

At a price "too good to be True", I bought this Fake NYK years ago, now gone!!
NYK never made this knife, but a talented counterfeiter did!!View attachment 2605556View attachment 2605557-

Yet the Bone is Spectacular!! I wouldn't blame anyone buying that knife Charlie - what a shame it didn't turn out to be an honest Knife - it's quite the beautiful Knife!

 

[danno50]

Looking for input on this Cattaraugus. I bought this off ebay many years ago when I was first starting out. I believe that the parts are all authentic Catt parts. However, I recall reading stories of Cattaraugus knives being assembled from leftover parts after the factory was closed in 1963. I am looking to give this one to a friend and want to make sure it is a good knife before doing so.
My biggest concern is the fit of the master blade. One corner of the tang has been ground down, apparently to fit better, however, I don't think it needed to be ground down to fit? It looks real bad from the top view, but, is good from the bottom view? The pattern number is right for this knife. I found it in Ritchie and Stewart's Cattaraugus catalog reprint.

 

[glennbad]

The blades give me pause, but more for the funky looking choils on both. The aging looks decent throughout to me...meaning the bone wear is consistent with the blade use and the condition of the liners, bolsters, springs. The bone also has gaps at the corners of the liners that you might see on a user that has survived years of use. The pivot pin looks a little smooshed, but that could just be some owner trying to keep everything together where it looks like the liners have gotten spread.

The blades, while they have use on them, also look to have been re-shaped possibly?

I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on the tang stamps...

 

[waynorth]

Looking for input on this Cattaraugus.

It looks like a less than fully trained technician, replaced the blade - maybe trying to save the tang stamp, but fit the blade?? Could have found a Catt blade to do this!!??