How Tough are the Tri-Ad™ Lock Knives Compared to the Usual Suspects?

[OrangeJoe]

Great idea!

The 2010 Knife Olympics, ... we have no champion YET.

Some guy named Sal has gone into hiding [joke].

Not Sal. *********************************************

If you need to know just use the search function and read through the framelock failure posts. It might take you all of 5 minutes.

I think someone asked why not quote the results, see all the drama above for your answer.

Demko, good lock!

 

[Ankerson]

So what I'm hearing (reading) is either that, yes, the toughest folding KNIFE (not lock) is either a CS American Lawman or a CS AK-47 or 'they are overbuilt beyond need' which sounds like a round about way of saying the same thing.

Is anyone in this thread ready to recommend those two models (the only Tri-Ad / G10 ones I think) over Strider the next time someone asks the bi-weekly recurring 'What's THE Toughest Hard Use Folder Under $500'?

They usually are, someone will post them.

 

[singularity35]

Some folders may be overbuilt beyond the need of others but not overbuilt beyond what I want.

 

[hardheart]

it has about as much relevance as putting a knife in a vise and hanging stuff off of it. It may be tough but are you really gaining any advantage over the other locks out there ? You can mount the best high performance tires in the world on a ford escort, but it will still just be a ford escort.

I honestly do not know what you are saying. What is the point in switching to a fixed blade? Because it is stronger than a folder? What is the point in choosing a heavy lockback, axis, or tri-ad? Because they are stronger than other locks? How is there no advantage? If you aren't going to push a liner lock to failure, thereby gaining no advantage in switching to a compression lock, then there is no advantage in switching to a fixed blade either.

You already used the word ABUSED your logic and argument fails right after you said that. STOP ABUSING YOUR TOOLS, they do make fixed blades for that reason. If you are putting so much pressure on your locking system....isn't the strongest and most practical idea to switch to a fixed blade?

So basically In my opinion here goes cold steel grabbing up another ridiculous idea for a video. Is it a good lock, sure...but was that what we really needed...no. The lock still sits on Aus-8 blades, put it on a d2 tool steel blade or a S30v and we'll talk.

I believe the point is that new locking systems and different folder designs change the definition of abuse. Towing a horse trailer with a Ford Escort would be abuse. Towing with a one ton pickup is not. That is practical, and within the design limits of the vehicle. Applying 300 lbs of force to a knife that failed at 100 lbs in testing would be abuse, but it isn't if the knife didn't break until 700 lbs.

I do not know what is ridiculous about the weight hanging test. Also, I do not understand the suggestion to use D2 or S30V. Those are not tough steels, I could understand if you said L6, 5160, 3V, or S5. But not hypereutecoid steels with such a high carbide fraction. AUS8 is actually not a bad choice if we are grading on toughness. 12C27 would probably be a better choice for a stainless. You can see here that Sandvik tested and says that it took three times the energy to break when compared to D2.

Is anyone in this thread ready to recommend those two models (the only Tri-Ad / G10 ones I think) over Strider the next time someone asks the bi-weekly recurring 'What's THE Toughest Hard Use Folder Under $500'?

I would, going by what Sal has posted about testing results on the locks & impact test results on the alloys used. If better wear resistance is also required, then I would not.

 

[Broos]

And as long as we are going to chop or poke holes in mild steel, we should add an impact or chopping type test. So we'll need about 10 test specimens for each folder tested. 4 for strength testing (one test to failure in each direction), maybe 6 more for various impact testing

This might be test limited to Chinese knives!

 

[TheCarbideRat]

Not Sal. You really don't know who you are talking about, do you?

If you need to know just use the search function and read through the framelock failure posts. It might take you all of 5 minutes.

I think someone asked why not quote the results, see all the drama above for your answer.

Demko, good lock!

Not Sal? ... ... It's a *joke*.

 

[bearcut]

If you want to define "the strongest folder", wouldn't you also want to consider the force to failure with side loads?

Yes you would.
Side torsion matters.

In this respect, the Triad is just another folder.

Strider and Hinderer designs cover this aspect with their designs. And, they weigh substantially less than 7.8 ounces.

However, since everyone seems hung up on the vertical strength issue, I doubt the side loading will be addressed.

 

[Ankerson]

Yes you would.
Side torsion matters.

In this respect, the Triad is just another folder.

Strider and Hinderer designs cover this aspect with their designs. And, they weigh substantially less than 7.8 ounces.

However, since everyone seems hung up on the vertical strength issue, I doubt the side loading will be addressed.

My knife isn't a CS factory knife, it's a Custom made by Andrew Demko (Nothing at all to do with CS).

The CS factory knives weigh less that the Striders do and a lot less than my custom does.

 

[hardheart]

Yes you would.
Strider and Hinderer designs cover this aspect with their designs.

How so? The lock stabilizer prevents overtravel when unlocking the knife. It does not reinforce the pivot/tang area or prevent the lock bar from buckling at the cutout. Is there another design element to which you are referring?

 

[joewest69]

I honestly do not know what you are saying. What is the point in switching to a fixed blade? Because it is stronger than a folder? What is the point in choosing a heavy lockback, axis, or tri-ad? Because they are stronger than other locks? How is there no advantage? If you aren't going to push a liner lock to failure, thereby gaining no advantage in switching to a compression lock, then there is no advantage in switching to a fixed blade either.

I use my liner lock for daily chores like opening mail and boxes, cutting string or zip ties, cutting weeds or sticks in the yard, and so on. I also use frame locks, axis, caged ball, and lockbacks. None of them out perform the liner lock at those basic tasks. They are cool to have though since I enjoy the knife collecting. Is it good to have a tough folder when the situation calls for it ? Yea I carry a ZT0300 or my manix 2 if im going to go hiking or camping, but I'm not going to use them to chop down a tree. I have a fixed blade chopper for that duty. I also wouldn't use said chopper to fillet a fish or do other basic food prep work. I guess I don't understand the "look what i can do" videos. some people see them and say "oh wow look at that" but I usually just end up wondering why.

 

[bearcut]

How so? The lock stabilizer prevents overtravel when unlocking the knife. It does not reinforce the pivot/tang area or prevent the lock bar from buckling at the cutout. Is there another design element to which you are referring?

Yes.
The thumbstud locks against the frame on both Striders and Hinderers. This creates two points of contact, relieving stress from the pivot alone.

The Triad design does not utilize this.

Ankerson, since I mentioned the 7.8 oz weight, I thought it obvious that I had referred to your custom folder, which utilizes the TRIAD system, so yes, it does have something to do with CS. You keep bringing up your custom knife in this thread, so that’s why I addressed the weight issue. It has been very hard to miss out on this custom piece of yours. There are at last 3 threads about it, two of which you have started.

The OP asked about the TRIAD system. Broos brought up the side loading issue.
You keep bringing up your custom.

 

[Ankerson]

Yes.
The thumbstud locks against the frame on both Striders and Hinderers. This creates two points of contact, relieving stress from the pivot alone.

The Triad design does not utilize this.

Ankerson, since I mentioned the 7.8 oz weight, I thought it obvious that I had referred to your custom folder, which utilizes the TRIAD system, so yes, it does have something to do with CS. You keep bringing up your custom knife in this thread, so that’s why I addressed the weight issue. It has been very hard to miss out on this custom piece of yours. There are at last 3 threads about it, two of which you have started.

The OP asked about the TRIAD system. Broos brought up the side loading issue.
You keep bringing up your custom.

It's not the same as the factory Tri-Ad that CS produces, it's slightly different.

My Custom is an Andrew Demko Custom knife as in Demko Knives.

The only reason I brought it up in this threads was the price issue that was raised... Other than that my knife has no baring on this thread.

 

[Tripton]

I never claimed earlier that the Triad lock isn't the strongest lock out there.

The fact remains, without any data regarding other kinds of locks to compare the results, it wouldnt matter if they hung a freight train locomotive from the handle of an Espada. Without comparative data, you cannot just assume that it is the strongest...even if it is.

Another thing to consider is that many of the figures brought up earlier in this thread are from folders that are longer when open than my size 16 shoes. They are getting some of their strength from being 3 times bigger than any reasonable folder as well.

Like Mr. Demko alluded to....its time for a show down!

 

[bucktwofive]

Ive thrown my Rajah II into boards and trees over a hundred times. Its just as solid as it was out of the box.

Id love to see some youtube vids where other knife brands are put to the same abuse as these CS knives.

 

[viva la]

honestly, I don't care is a CS knife can hold 600lbs for 3 days. Realistically, can someone please explain when I will ever put my knife through that kind of stress?

I completely agree with the high performance tires on an escort comparison. End of the day the escort is still an escort, and the CS knife is still just a CS knife.

 

[Ankerson]

I never claimed earlier that the Triad lock isn't the strongest lock out there.

The fact remains, without any data regarding other kinds of locks to compare the results, it wouldnt matter if they hung a freight train locomotive from the handle of an Espada. Without comparative data, you cannot just assume that it is the strongest...even if it is.

Another thing to consider is that many of the figures brought up earlier in this thread are from folders that are longer when open than my size 16 shoes. They are getting some of their strength from being 3 times bigger than any reasonable folder as well.

Like Mr. Demko alluded to....its time for a show down!

In their new Recon 1 Video they hung 200 Ibs off the end of the handle, and that knife only has a 4" blade. That's with a G10 Handle and no liners, not bad for a 5 ounce knife.

 

[hardheart]

Really, you could flip it around and ask why people have ZDP-189, S90V, or some of the other steels on knives that open mail or slice fruit. Some people need this lock strength about as much as they need that much wear resistance. The size or role of the knife precludes the need for great strength, or edge holding, or high hardness, or carbide fraction, etc. An Escort will get you where you need to go. If you don't need to/can't get there quickly, or while hauling a heavy load, then that's all you need. We still get to buy what we want, though.

 

[bucktwofive]

As far as I can tell this thread is all about how much people dislike CS.

 

[Razorsharp1986]

I really don't get the arguments in the thread.
Demko's Triad lock is superb. Whether in his custom knives, or the CS folders. Side torsion is another matter, which has little to do with the lock or lock strength. I also think that most high end folders (yes, including some CS offerings) will do just fine with the usual torsion stress that the regular knife user will condone it to. If you are worried about side torsion stress, then you're misusing your knife and have a wrong concept of why people carry folders, essentially. I've had knives with rather simple locks such as the liner lock and plain back lock; with steel liners or without steel liners. Not even one knife failed due to side torsion stress.

Bottom line, IMHO, the Triad lock is one of the best locks out there. Anybody that tells himself otherwise should do some research.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Who said that the triad lock is not good?