I fricken LOVE Emerson haters

[mt666tm]

I hear ya, but come on now, who here can say that a 'tiny' bit of the allure of buying a knife such as this isn't to pretend subconciously that we have some tacticool advantage over the modern world. I wasn't saying that we as suburban couch commandos need to care about the visual signature of the blade, I just always thought it could be a useful feature for someone that might use a folding knife for another intended purpose.

Who's to say that a folding knife is #4 in line for a defensive weapon. Perhaps someone out there intends to use a folding knife as their #1 offensive weapon.

It sure as hell won't be me anytime soon, unless that watermellon on the counter gives me the stink eye when I get home. Then he won't even see it coming. I'll have him chopped up into little wedges before my kids get in the house from the car, and my 'useless tanto chisel ground blade' will make short work of it

I personally prefer keeping my imagination in orbit on a daily basis. It makes the work days a lot more fun.

 

[SALTY]

Roger that; it's all good.
Knives are fun and Emerson knives are funnerer.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

I'm no hater (carry a 7 exclusively), but I'm not blind to baloney either.

Honestly, the haters do have a plethora of very valid complaints. While I will refrain from listing all of my agreements, I will directly address a particular issue:

Lock up. Or more specifically, the failure to do so. Even after almost 2 decades of constant reports of Emerson lock failures all over the place, nothing has been done to negate the sheer volume of these reports. Hell, Emersons are known for their reputation of people complaining about failures.

I get that all companies have lemons, and that there are detractors are out there, and I get all the other variables.

However, put plainly, when a brand becomes known for something like this, and the people who HAVE experienced its asinine ridiculousness become nervous about purchasing another because they feel that getting a functional 250 dollar knife is a crapshoot that will cost them more money to have corrected, something is definitely wrong, and should be looked into.

I am one of those people. My very first 7 had lock slip right out of the box. It was pathetically obvious that the blade tang was ground MUCH too steep, causing the liner to slide towards disengagement with little spine pressure. This isn't guesswork, I have researched and worked on these locks immensely. While I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject, and I know there are things I may not consider, I am confident in my understanding.

I will reference Bob Terzoula's Tactical Folding Knives (kinda the linerlock Bible) when considering what my common sense tells me. And that is that the blade tang angle on all Emerson knives varies tremendously batch to batch for the same model. I have knives with as much as a 7 degree variance between them. If anything else, the inconsistency proves a problem right there. Yet, Bob states a specific range to how steep that tang can be before the lock just slips off the tang, or binds. All the Emersons I've ever seen greatly exceed this regardless of the degrees. And regardless of what is correct for an Emerson, there is a specific angle that is correct there. So when I can look at three of the same knife, and visually SEE the differences, it is...
Alarming.

Knowing that maybe the forces in these knives allow for different specs, It is still my opinion that this is the reason behind the still-occuring reports of failures out there.

Which leads me to supplemental hater agreement: Ernie's ego. While I have no doubt that he is a good man, I personally perceive a stubbornness just for stubborn's stake whenever a certain way of his is even remotely questioned.

In life, and especially business, listening to critique and feedback without getting defensive, and then actually adjusting a behavior, shows you care and are genuinely invested.

Ernie, please remedy this. I am still apprehensive about buying another. It wouldn't be hard to instill some consistency and QC. You would gain back much more business.

I had to send my knife in twice. The first time, I even politely mentioned that it looked like the tang was too steep. It came back with no change, save for a new liner. It was discouraging to see. I had to pay out of pocket (other companies are pretty much free for warranty), and what I saw indicated that whoever worked on my knife either didn't understand the mechanism at all, or didn't care. Both are very bad. The second time, I sent it only after I called Ernie directly, who assured me he would grind the tang personally. He was very nice, and waved my fee. Still, the whole damn thing was annoying and frankly traumatizing.

Talk about childhood ruined lol! I followed Ernest since I was a teenager, longing for my first Emerson. To have to then rationalize and deal with that first impression really made me want to give up on the brand I so wanted to trust.

The blade eventually came back functional. But even then, the engagement area was goofy, and the area ground didn't seem to affect it anyway. In fact, it was even the opposite of the diagram Ernie likes to brag about on the EKI site, regarding correct engagement geometry and how he pioneered the further use of the mechanism. Additionally, the packing slip indicated it was ground by someone else.

There's a lot of hype and mouth running coming from the company, with bold statements of superiority. Especially when sheer ego prevents a closer look to see if maybe, JUST maybe, something could use a second look, or redesign. If anything, it never does anyone good to run their mouth about how great and right they are. The more you say, the more can be said against you. Especially when what is said against you is valid. And it always sends a bad message when you break your own rules!

No hater, but I'm no cultist either. I'll call BS where I see it.

Thx for reading the long wind. My attempts at being clear and eloquent usually result in the bleethering you all know and love! Or not. Lol!

In the end, I'm glad I stuck around. I'll never try to make up reasons why these knives cut better, or are stronger, are a good value, or are easier to sharpen, or superior.

I don't need to justify my preference with BS. I carry Emerson simply because I like em, and I'm here because I like the people!

 

[jceckrosh]

Good post. I have read the complaints and watched the YT reviews and whatnot.

I know they are in fact NOT perfect, which is why I like them I think. They fill some need in my knife collecting where the price is reasonable for a knife that actually looks like it was made by people, and not exclusively by a CNC machine. I have customs that are exclusively hand made, but I find so many production knives feel like no person interacted with them at all. I like the imperfections and rough edges. If I want perfect machine generated knives I have other brands I like that deliver that just fine.

I do however understand peoples concerns over a company that makes knives that are billed the way they are that have issues with the locks. Functionality issues are a whole different story than aesthetics issues.

 

[The Whip]

I get not liking something. I get not patronizing the product/producer/purveyor. But spending time to crusade/evangelize about what you don't like and why? That's the part I don't get.

I'm with you, as I don't understand it, either. I attribute most of it to an overabundance of leisure time combined with inflated egos. Many people think that they know more about topics than they really do, and the availability and anonymity of the Internet give them a voice they wouldn't otherwise have. Sometimes that's a good thing, but sometimes it just makes for a lot of noise and animosity.

I will say though, I think EE is probably a nice man but some of his writings are more than a little bit out there. I'm far from a bleeding heart left winger (or left wing anything for that matter) but that letter he wrote earlier this year in the catalog sounded like the drunken rants of an angry old man, pretty off putting to be frank. It belonged more on Breitbart "news" than a knife catalog.

The way I see it, it's his catalog, so it's his bully pulpit. Where else is a man supposed to voice his views, if not within the confines of his own company?

Lynn Thompson used to include his own editorials about the knife industry, knife design, and knife combatives in the Cold Steel Special Projects catalogs. Sadly, he doesn't do that anymore, and you know what that makes the catalogs these days? Dull.

I'm no hater (carry a 7 exclusively), but I'm not blind to baloney either.
...

In the end, I'm glad I stuck around. I'll never try to make up reasons why these knives cut better, or are stronger, are a good value, or are easier to sharpen, or superior.

I don't need to justify my preference with BS. I carry Emerson simply because I like em, and I'm here because I like the people!

Well said, and I appreciate the time, thought, and honesty that you put into your post. Given your personal experience, I'm somewhat surprised that you continue to carry the CQC-7. Does that model just appeal more than others? I ask because it seems like the HD-7 might be a good alternative--if you can find one, that is.

Well, what i learned is theres something about Eemerson that just triggers and ticks some people off. Theyre literally outraged by the horribleness of the knives, pricing, grinds, construction, everything about them.

You should try being a fan of Emerson AND Cold Steel. You won't even make it through the first page of an Emerson thread without rolling your eyes....

-Steve

 

[DamascusBowie]

I'm with you, as I don't understand it, either. I attribute most of it to an overabundance of leisure time combined with inflated egos. Many people think that they know more about topics than they really do, and the availability and anonymity of the Internet give them a voice they wouldn't otherwise have. Sometimes that's a good thing, but sometimes it just makes for a lot of noise and animosity.




The way I see it, it's his catalog, so it's his bully pulpit. Where else is a man supposed to voice his views, if not within the confines of his own company?

Lynn Thompson used to include his own editorials about the knife industry, knife design, and knife combatives in the Cold Steel Special Projects catalogs. Sadly, he doesn't do that anymore, and you know what that makes the catalogs these days? Dull.




Well said, and I appreciate the time, thought, and honesty that you put into your post. Given your personal experience, I'm somewhat surprised that you continue to carry the CQC-7. Does that model just appeal more than others? I ask because it seems like the HD-7 might be a good alternative--if you can find one, that is.




You should try being a fan of Emerson AND Cold Steel. You won't even make it through the first page of an Emerson thread without rolling your eyes....

-Steve

Im a big fan of CS machettes, they are amazing value, probably best bang for buck out there.

 

[ourgon]

That catalog is 100% pro. Sadly my CQC-7 isn't [or wasn't, because I fixed it]. I'm not suprised by criticism - constructive one shouldn't be a reason for mockery.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

In short, the design of the 7 appeals to me, and it was sort of a grail to me. And since getting my first one in hand, I realized it was "my" knife.

Regarding the HD-7, I'm not a big framelock fan. Tho, I did have it on my list until they switched to bearing washers. Ugg.

Either way, a linerlock is plenty strong for utility and defensive uses. As long as it's correctly executed, that is. I don't doubt the mechanism at all.

One shouldn't have to feel the need to upgrade to a frame lock to get peace of mind because a linerlock failed. It would simply be nice to assume either choice would arrive to you in functional condition.

Unfortunately, I am now conditioned to expect a problem, despite an overwhelming desire to have trust and expect the opposite.

Hopefully, the more of these knives that I acquire (because of course I will get more at some point), the more I'll be exposed to flawless performance instead of unfortunate failings.

Hopefully.

*Edit*
Quote didn't work. This is a response to The Whip's question.

 

[Officer's Match]

I have had around 50 Emerson knives so far. I have had precisely one that had to be returned (incomplete cutout on the detent tab, Mini A100BT). I have yet to experience a lock failure, but then I really don't trust any lock on any folder in actual usage. That is to say, I don't put my fingers at risk, regardless of brand or lock type.

Edit to add: Not doubting anyone else, just saying I have not experience the type of variation and failure some have described.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

Glad to hear your good experiences! Those stories are another reason I stuck around. Very encouraging.

I have had around 50 Emerson knives so far. I have had precisely one that had to be returned (incomplete cutout on the detent tab, Mini A100BT). I have yet to experience a lock failure, but then I really don't trust any lock on any folder in actual usage. That is to say, I don't put my fingers at risk, regardless of brand or lock type.

Edit to add: Not doubting anyone else, just saying I have not experience the type of variation and failure some have described.

 

[Heirphoto]

I think Ernie said his pretty much unchanging choice in steel was due to his loyalty to its manufacturer who helped him when he was first starting out. I have no issue hearing the personal opinions of the various makers in their advertising....buy the knife, buy the maker. What he stands for is as key to me as the product he makes

 

[mt666tm]

I'm probably in the 30 range with how many I've had. Not one single problem other than my 7V that squeaked a bit when opening. A little oil on the detent ball solved that. Some blade centering and lockbar tension lightening due to personal preferences and all have been awesome.

I don't know what this mythical lockbar failure is all about, and I'm hard on my knives. What are people doing to cause the lockbar to fail?

If you need to apply pressure counterintuitively to how a folding knife is meant to be used then get a fixed blade.

 

[The Whip]

In short, the design of the 7 appeals to me, and it was sort of a grail to me. And since getting my first one in hand, I realized it was "my" knife.

Regarding the HD-7, I'm not a big framelock fan. Tho, I did have it on my list until they switched to bearing washers. Ugg.

Either way, a linerlock is plenty strong for utility and defensive uses. As long as it's correctly executed, that is. I don't doubt the mechanism at all.

One shouldn't have to feel the need to upgrade to a frame lock to get peace of mind because a linerlock failed. It would simply be nice to assume either choice would arrive to you in functional condition.

Unfortunately, I am now conditioned to expect a problem, despite an overwhelming desire to have trust and expect the opposite.

Hopefully, the more of these knives that I acquire (because of course I will get more at some point), the more I'll be exposed to flawless performance instead of unfortunate failings.

Hopefully.

*Edit*
Quote didn't work. This is a response to The Whip's question.

I understand. I'm glad to hear that you've found your knife. My problem is that I keep finding my knife over and over and over again!

I'm also glad to hear that your bad experiences haven't soured you on the brand. Keep up the hunt. There really are some great Emersons out there!

I have had around 50 Emerson knives so far. I have had precisely one that had to be returned (incomplete cutout on the detent tab, Mini A100BT). I have yet to experience a lock failure,

I'm probably in the 30 range with how many I've had. Not one single problem other than my 7V that squeaked a bit when opening.

I haven't counted, so I don't how many Emersons I've owned--probably not as many as you gentlemen, but certainly enough to have a pretty good handle on overall quality. I've also carried Emerson knives as my primary folder plenty. I haven't had any issues with lockup or fit-and-finish on any of them.

I don't doubt that there are others who have had experiences like Jamesh's. But I also don't think that the problems are as widespread as many of the detractors would have everyone believe.

-Steve

 

[John_0917]

I think Ernie said his pretty much unchanging choice in steel was due to his loyalty to its manufacturer who helped him when he was first starting out. I have no issue hearing the personal opinions of the various makers in their advertising....buy the knife, buy the maker. What he stands for is as key to me as the product he makes

I’ve heard that too, there isn’t a huge difference in price between 154CM and even some upper level PM stainless steels these days, especially when you buy on the quantity they do.

I think one thing that hasn’t helped quiet the critics is that you look at the Kershaw Emersons and see that many of them (at $28) have as good or better for and finish as actual Emersons.

Also the whole “America F yea!” Attitude is a bit silly when he makes probably solid six figures off of knives made in Chinese factories with Chinese materials.

 

[Officer's Match]

I think one thing that hasn’t helped quiet the critics is that you look at the Kershaw Emersons and see that many of them (at $28) have as good or better for and finish as actual Emersons.

Another way to look at that is these collab's are an amazing value.

Also the whole “America F yea!” Attitude is a bit silly when he makes probably sold six figures off of knives made in Chinese factories with Chinese materials.

There is nothing "silly" about patriotism sir, with all due respect. What is silly is to denigrate a successful and generous businessman for being proud of his country and the opportunity it provides.

And as a business owner myself I am fully aware that you cannot please everyone, as some will criticize even when you try to. Ernie still offers the "real" or traditional knife that is beloved by his customers, but now offers a low-end for those that for whatever reason buy in that price category, as well as ZT models to accommodate that niche. Candidly I don't know how Mr. Emerson could do more to be loyal to both his employees (and brand from which their livelihood derives), his customer base, and still be accommodating to other segments of the market.

 

[Officer's Match]

Also the whole “America F yea!” Attitude is a bit silly when he makes probably sold six figures off of knives made in Chinese factories with Chinese materials.

^^^ I consider myself pretty easy going, but that one does bother me to be honest. Not cool IMHO.

 

[John_0917]

^^^ I consider myself pretty easy going, but that one does bother me to be honest. Not cool IMHO.

I’m not going to use the H word because that is a little strong and not fair, but it’s along those lines.

 

[Officer's Match]

I’m not going to use the H word because that is a little strong and not fair, but it’s along those lines.

Look John, I'm personally asking you to refrain coming into the EMERSON SUBFORUM and questioning Ernest Emerson's patriotism or it's authenticity. Allowing folks that can't or won't pony up for a real Emerson to sample and enjoy his designs (via Kershaw) is not something that gives you legitimacy in challenging Ernie's character.

 

[Astronaut FX]

Look John, I'm personally asking you to refrain coming into the EMERSON SUBFORUM and questioning Ernest Emerson's patriotism or it's authenticity. Allowing folks that can't or won't pony up for a real Emerson to sample and enjoy his designs (via Kershaw) is not something that gives you legitimacy in challenging Ernie's character.

I can respect your passion around this issue, but to be fair, if a company (any company) elects to make patriotism part of their marketing “story” they have pretty much opened themselves up to being scrutinized for having done so.

 

[Officer's Match]

I can respect your passion around this issue, but to be fair, if a company (any company) elects to make patriotism part of their marketing “story” they have pretty much opened themselves up to being scrutinized for having done so.

It is not about passion, it is about standing up for one's character. Again, I too am a (much less successful) business owner myself. I understand that for every positive thing you do, somebody has to put it down. John_0917 made a statement that attacks the very core of Ernest Emerson's reputation on the basis that he licensed a collaboration with KAI/Kershaw that enabled entry level purchasers to try out an "Emerson" design. I feel strongly that is out of line, especially in here.