I give up I cant sharpen $#!* 2nd update page 5

:mad:
Well I have tried it again Twice. I just have no idea what I am doing wrong. I started out course. Got it to burr on one side then the other. Stepped up to medium and got it to burr on one side then the other. Okay time to go to fine right? Okay getting to fine, I have been holding the same angle when I am sharpening, but having a harder time feeling the burr on the finer grits, so I dont know if I am not getting it to burr properly on each side or am rounding the edge off or something. For some reason the finer I go the duller it gets. Very frustrating indeed. I mean the bevel looks even to my eye, but dang.
:mad: Oh yeah I did try stropping it after the fine stone but it didnt feel any sharper, just looked prettier.
 
Forget the stropping if you can’t get the edge shaving sharp off of the rods. You’re only introducing another variable that you have yet to master. I suspect that your failure is due to your lack of finely tweaking your angle to introduce a “micro” bevel to the edge. To get rid of the burr, and more importantly, not create another one(!), you need to hone only the very apex of the edge. To do this you need to alter your hold/angle by a mere ½ degree. Many don’t have the necessary fine motor skills to do this without the aid of a mechanical jig. And there lies the answer to why there are so many sharpening contraptions!

Sharpening is a pursuit of Zen because it is all about technique.

On paper, it is the simplest of concepts to bring a piece of steel to a V shape that cuts things as intended. In reality it is complicated due to many complex variables including, but not limited to, the type of steel alloy, the blade geometry and sharpening medium. Then, you introduce the human element to all of this, and you’ve got a fairly steep learning curve! Some will pick it up quickly and others will struggle with it until they find a device that they can “make work”. It can be a long or short journey depending on the grasshopper. I firmly believe in learning how to sharpen using bench stones free handed and without the aid of any contraptions. Watch how simple Murray Carter does it. That’s all there is to it(!) whether using ceramic, diamond, Oil/Waterstones. Once you’ve mastered the technique, you can sharpen using anything because it is the “feel” that you go by. That is what’s important and you can't learn it properly without having the discipline to invest your time/effort in its pursuit. The rewards far outweigh this tiny sacrifice because you then have a skill that is not beholding to gadgets, electricity, power tools or other such nonsense to achieve what only takes a few minutes with anything akin to a rock found alongside a river.
 
I am a firm believer of if its too dang dull buy another one! Well, at least thats what I tell my wife LMAO.
 
okbow68,

Sorry to hear of your continued frustration. This may be a silly question, but how are you removing the burr after you create it before moving to the next step in grit? Can you take a video of you sharpening from a top view then a front view? That may help folks suggest improvements to your technique.

Best wishes,
Doug
 
Well I just go back to the burr side and very gently give it a couple of strokes. If I can find my camera I will try to post a pic of the edge I have gotten.
 
Okay guys here are a couple of pics of the edge on the Spydeco I am talking about. Hope they are good enough for you to be be able to discern something from them.





 
the edge looks good from what i can see. look straight down on the edge as if you were going to cut your nose in half and see if the edge shines. (kind of like looking down at the edge of a butter knife.)
 
well I have tried that and I cant tell, guess eyes arent what they used to be, where is my magnifying glass
 
Richard made a good suggestion.
You can tell EVERYTHING from simply looking at the blade’s edge in the proper light.

The trick is, holding it at the correct angle to catch the light properly. Indirect sunlight coming through a window and/or the light coming from my Halogen tool/bench lights is what I use most of the time. It needs to be fairly strong and ambient room lighting won't work. I can simply look at an edge and tell you if it’s sharp or has a wire edge. You shouldn't need any magnification for this and it is how I determine if I’ve removed a wire edge and ready to move on to my final stropping. I don’t use a strop to remove a wire edge, only as a means of refining the final edge. The burr/wire edge will ALWAYS reflect light because the angle of incidence is different than that of the primary edge. Since you say your edge is “not sharp” then that simply means you haven’t removed enough steel at the very APEX of the edge! If so, you should see some light reflected back at you as you “sight” down the edge, like you sight down a rifle barrel. You have to do this while looking into a good light source.
 
obviousley I am having a problem here but would the fact that I have raised a burr on both sides suggest that i have removed metal from the very apex of the edge? That is my understanding of all the reading I have done and youtube videos that I have watched.
 
okbow68 said:
obviousley I am having a problem here but would the fact that I have raised a burr on both sides suggest that i have removed metal from the very apex of the edge? That is my understanding of all the reading I have done and youtube videos that I have watched.
Click to expand...

The next thing you need to learn is how to knock the burr off. Use lighter strokes and try the 5-3-1 per side stroke progression.
 
okbow68 said:
well I have tried that and I cant tell, guess eyes arent what they used to be, where is my magnifying glass
Click to expand...

A good magnifier, at least 10x or better, will reveal a LOT about what's going on. I didn't know exactly what I was doing wrong, until I started taking a close(er) look at my edges. Then it became painfully obvious. I think it'll help you a lot. It's no accident, that some of the real sharpening experts here use high magnification (100x or more) to inspect their edges. Give it a try, if you can.

Hang in there. :thumbup:
 
After coarse, forget about the burr. The burr just says that you've reached the edge. Now do one pass per side to get rid of the burr.
 
I have been carrying my Spydie Gayle Bradley for a few weeks... It need to be sharpened.. I went down stairs, turned on my paper wheels.. in less than one minute it was hair splitting sharp..

I am all for free hand.. and I have a sharpmaker, diamond, strops, etc..

But when I want to spend time with my family..I turn on the wheels..

Talk to Richard.. you will love the knife hobby even more..
 
i am begining to think you are right harley guy but I am determined to do this by hand first. So do not go for a burr after the coarse stage? Well maybe thats where I have been messing up 'cause I have been trying to raise a burr in all staged down to extra fine and then trying to lightly strop it away.
 
okbow68 said:
i am begining to think you are right harley guy but I am determined to do this by hand first. So do not go for a burr after the coarse stage? Well maybe thats where I have been messing up 'cause I have been trying to raise a burr in all staged down to extra fine and then trying to lightly strop it away.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, when you get a burr with the course, you will be getting a burr with the finer grits too. You just may not be able to feel it. Just think of the other finer grits as shaping and refining the edge. Always use lighter strokes as you get to the last strokes of each grit.

And the suggestion of of getting a magnifier is a good one. One of the best tips I had was from knifenut1013 when he said to reconcile how an edge feels to your fingertips to how it looks under magnification.
 
okbow68 said:
i am begining to think you are right harley guy but I am determined to do this by hand first. So do not go for a burr after the coarse stage? Well maybe thats where I have been messing up 'cause I have been trying to raise a burr in all staged down to extra fine and then trying to lightly strop it away.
Click to expand...

The burr only needs to be raised once, at the coarsest stage. After that, it's all about gently removing it, while also refining the scratch pattern on the bevel. As you progress through the grit stages, it also helps to gradually lighten pressure as you go. By the time you get to the finest grit, pressure should be very, very light, and take it very slow & easy. It's all about refining an ever-thinner & finer edge, so it needs to be done with care.

At the finest stages, I'm in the habit of frequently checking the edge, every 2 or 3 passes, by slicing some paper. Pay attention to how cleanly it cuts, along the full length of the cutting edge. If it snags, or slides across the paper without cutting, pay attention to the specific area of the edge where that occurs. Sounds obvious, I know. But, those are the little 'red flags' that'll tell you what part of the edge needs a little more TLC. Burrs, especially, will grab/snag the paper at the exact location of the burr, so watch closely where that's happening.

If you get tired or frustrated along the way, just put everything down, and find something relaxing or restful to do (and it doesn't hurt to just think about it a bit). When you're feeling rested and positive again, that's a good time to pick up the tools and have at it once more.

You'll get there. Just take it nice & easy.
 
Last edited:
okbow68 said:
i am begining to think you are right harley guy but I am determined to do this by hand first. So do not go for a burr after the coarse stage? Well maybe thats where I have been messing up 'cause I have been trying to raise a burr in all staged down to extra fine and then trying to lightly strop it away.
Click to expand...

If you want to get the knife sharp, forget about all the other grits, and just stick with the coarse. You may have heard it said before that you should be able to shave after the coarse and it is absolutely true. Moving on to lower grits doesn't solve your original problem.

If you have raised a burr on both sides with the coarse, remove it with the lightest of passes. Imagine in your head that you are actually trying to grind the folded burr away from the edge without breaking it off. By this, I mean LIGHT STROKES. After you have removed it, make a few more light strokes and then turn it over and repeat the process. LIGHT STROKES to grind that burr down, don't break it off, and then start counting down your stokes per side. 10, 8, 5. After five, repeat 3 per side a few times, then repeat 2 per side a few times, and then repeat 1 per side several times, but again, I can't stress enough LIGHT, LIGHT, LIGHT strokes like you are caressing the stone across the edge of the knife

You goal is to attempt to not raise a burr, buy just ever so lightly rubbing the stone against the bevel rather that grinding it into the metal. Also, learn how to make one pass for the entire length of the knife for this step. I don't mean to sound funny, but this move should be very slow, relaxing, almost sharpening zen like stokes to ensure that you are applying the lightest pressure. Imagine yourself wiping away the unwanted metal to find the razor sharp edge underneath.

If you execute this properly you will have a rough shaving edge with just the coarse stone.

With that said, keep in mind that you may be placing force on the stones in such a way that it only reaches the edge when you apply heavier pressure, as well as you may be allowing the rod to bounce around in the holder.



If this works for you, then you can move on to the other grits, but I wouldn't bother trying finer grits until you figure out how to get it sharp with a coarse stone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top