I got a knife from China a few weeks ago from a New Jersey importer.

[NJBillK]

I don't have it available now but at one time I had a price sheet for various size billets of stainless from a known manufacturer, I think maybe CPM. What surprised me was how little price difference there was between "entry level" stainless and premium stainless...like S110V was only a little more than S30V. The price only really jumped going to laminates or things like Damasteel or Devin Thomas Damascus.

Where a stainless steel grade affects the cost of a knife the most is the complexity of the grind on some of the harder to work with steels.

If a manufacturer can make a knife with S30V for $70, they can make it with S110V for $80 given a simple grind (like FFG). There's no magical price point for ZDP-189 either.

Now all you knife makers who know way more than me can pop in and tell me how wrong my assumptions are, lol.

As Jill stated, do all of these alloys grind and machine at the same rates?
Do they use more belts at a faster rate?
Do they take more man hours per knife?
Due to all of this, wouldn't it put more wear and tear on a grinder, causing their repair to occur more frequently, or to justoutright be replaced?
Do they have a more involved HT?


There is s A Lot more that goes into a knife than just the bare cost of the bar stock...

 

[Hackenslash]

As Jill stated, do all of these alloys grind and machine at the same rates?
Do they use more belts at a faster rate?
Do they take more man hours per knife?
Due to all of this, wouldn't it put more wear and tear on a grinder, causing their repair to occur more frequently, or to justoutright be replaced?
Do they have a more involved HT?


There is s A Lot more that goes into a knife than just the bare cost of the bar stock...

I think you're saying what I was trying to say; the cost variable isn't material cost, it's manufacturing cost.

 

[stonproject]

Your right, but a few points:
isn't making some injection molded FRN cheaper than milling Ti slabs?
Just in machinery alone this would be the case. Especially since any damaged or malformed FRN scales can be melted and remolded.

Wouldn't the R&D alone make the framelock mechanism and interface not worth it to sell the knife for $75?
-----
All of that said, you still have yet to directly answer my questions.

I know building molds are pretty expensive so making a lot of FRN handles would still cost a fair amount but probably not as much as machining ti slabs. However, China is the biggest exporter of titanium in the world so they're probably getting it cheap, they're also probably paying less for their machinery and replacement parts for said machines, so it makes sense why china can put out titanium products so much cheaper than other countries (this isnt even factoring in cost of labor)

 

[dkb45]

D2 is cheap and plentiful in China. Lower grade titanium (still usable, but not as good as the higher end alloys) is also very cheap. Neither are especially hard to machine especially when you have a factory that already makes knives. Ontario makes a RAT folder in D2, and I don't see anybody saying the price is too cheap for that. It's because it isn't, and Ontario isn't all scary and Chinese.

Sometimes I wonder if this forum doesn't time travel back to the early 2000's when China didn't make good knives for very cheap.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I don't have it available now but at one time I had a price sheet for various size billets of stainless from a known manufacturer, I think maybe CPM. What surprised me was how little price difference there was between "entry level" stainless and premium stainless...like S110V was only a little more than S30V. The price only really jumped going to laminates or things like Damasteel or Devin Thomas Damascus.

Where a stainless steel grade affects the cost of a knife the most is the complexity of the grind on some of the harder to work with steels.

If a manufacturer can make a knife with S30V for $70, they can make it with S110V for $80 given a simple grind (like FFG). There's no magical price point for ZDP-189 either.

Now all you knife makers who know way more than me can pop in and tell me how wrong my assumptions are, lol.

That is what I'm talking about. The cost of working such a steel. But also when talking about steel blanks for knifemaking if you were just buying one blank a difference between D2 and Zdp may not be that much. But now multiply that difference by a standard production run in knives and that difference becomes a large number. And I just think it would be odd that they would offer a premium steel at minimal upcharge just to be a nice company. My other concern is the availability of this steel. ZDP isn't widely available. Someone once even said you needed to have permission from hitachi to use it but I don't know if that is true. Now if this was a well known company that is established I wouldn't think zdp is such a big deal. But CH is relatively unknown. At least in these parts. And they haven't been on the scene very long even in china. A year or two at most as I remember. So how does a company with very little presence in the community get their hands on this steel and offer a zdp blade at nearly the same cost as their d2 knives? ZDP is a hard steel to finish and the knives they claim to be using it are a satin finish. It just doesn't seem right to me when you consider all variables. Could be true but I wouldn't take it on faith. Some other companies also claim M390. And they were claiming m390 when ZT couldn't even get m390 and had to settle for CTS204P. Nearly identical but I think you get my point. I love Chinese knives. in fact I have one claiming to be m390 that should be hear tomorrow direct from my friend in china. But even from people I know and trust I still have a hard time swallowing it as truth. I'm not saying its not true. I'm just saying I'm not fully convinced. Especially when the knife I own from this company leaves a lot to be desired.

On the subject of that knife and given the suspicions I have if anyone hear has the ability to test steel or handle materials to verify they are what they are I will donate my CH to whoever can perform this test. Cut it up, test it whatever they want I don't need it back. I just don't have access to this type of equipment and don't know anyone who does. And I'm ok with the knife being destroyed if that is what is needed to figure it out. The knife claims to be S35VN and titanium. I'm convinced of the titanium while probably not a premium grade. But if it were to be tested and found to be s35vn then I may just lighten up on my suspicions. So if anyone can test it or knows someone who can Ill ship the thing off to them asap.

D2 is cheap and plentiful in China. Lower grade titanium (still usable, but not as good as the higher end alloys) is also very cheap. Neither are especially hard to machine especially when you have a factory that already makes knives. Ontario makes a RAT folder in D2, and I don't see anybody saying the price is too cheap for that. It's because it isn't, and Ontario isn't all scary and Chinese.

Sometimes I wonder if this forum doesn't time travel back to the early 2000's when China didn't make good knives for very cheap.

The problem is many makers claim D2 but its not even D2 even if its marked that way. I fully agree that china makes great knives, has access to better materials and executes them well. But there are still some companies who don't and lie about what they make to capitalize on the reputation of certain materials while not actually using them. And for me from what I have seen of this company I don't fully trust them yet. But the conversation has sorta shifted. Because this company also claims to use s35vn as well as ZDP-189. And ZDP is hard to machine and finish. And very little if any price difference among these models. And many sellers list these knives they say are d2 as 9cr18mov. Someone has said some sellers sell the identical knife with two different steels but I cannot find this seller. My question to you is what manufacturers do you know that are actually using what most would call legitimate D2 and not an equivalent? I do however disagree that Titanium isn't hard to machine. Even in the Chinese grades.

 

[ourgon]

D2 is cheap and plentiful in China. Lower grade titanium (still usable, but not as good as the higher end alloys) is also very cheap. Neither are especially hard to machine especially when you have a factory that already makes knives. Ontario makes a RAT folder in D2, and I don't see anybody saying the price is too cheap for that. It's because it isn't, and Ontario isn't all scary and Chinese.

Sometimes I wonder if this forum doesn't time travel back to the early 2000's when China didn't make good knives for very cheap.

D2 is cheap everywhere. It's why it's so liked by accountants.

 

[unwisefool]

Here's the CH. The online description says 9cr18mov, not D2:

The CH one looks exactly like this Kubey one:

Which looks just like this Two Sun:

So who is copying whom?

These remind me of GTC knives

Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

 

[clarkkentanabi]

Been subscribed to this thread for almost a week. It has stirred up a lot of controversy. The fact that OP isn't posting pics makes me question the credibility. I mean no disrespect but actual pics can put this thread to rest.

Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk

 

[Natlek]

Bye is right....as in bye bye, you've lost all credibility......

So , because I misspelled one word I lost credibility ? Make sense :thumbup: But , for 20 bucks I can BUY enough S90V steel /which is a lot better choice then ZDP / to make six blade for folder knive , just saying ............................

 

[Natlek]

Ok, so Do You believe that the knife being mentioned in that post Is made of zdp-189 and it would have a quality HT on the alloy?
I am not asking if you know whether it is or not, but do you Think it is?

Please make your decision based on price alone, using your experience with knife manufacturers and knives as as a whole as your reference point.

No , I don't believe . But since I have a lot of knowledge about trade with China, it is possible .........

 

[Natlek]

i dont know anything about this knife here, but theres a lot of high quality stuff coming out of china for pretty affordable prices nowadays. even knives offered by companies like kizer are giving you really good bargains for what you are getting. no need to shy away from chinese knives, they can make a knife as good as anyone else.

also some companies like kizer pay american knifemakers for their designs, so you are still supporting hardworking americans

4 years ago I bought three carp fishing rods from China for 80$ each one . Exactly the same rods in England /with BRAND name on them / cost 650 $ one piece .When I published that on one local fishing forum after two week from chinese site disappeared all advertisements about any brand they producing fishing rods/ there have been the most famous fishing brand names in Europe/ .I hope you understand what I want to say ? Sorry for of topic .

 

[PURPLEDC]

4 years ago I bought three carp fishing rods from China for 80$ each one . Exactly the same rods in England /with BRAND name on them / cost 650 $ one piece .When I published that on one local fishing forum after two week from chinese site disappeared all advertisements about any brand they producing fishing rods/ there have been the most famous fishing brand names in Europe/ .I hope you understand what I want to say ? Sorry for of topic .

the issue with zdp is that its hard to get. In fact according to sal glesser they don't sell this steel to just anyone due to the involved heat treat process and only a few companies in japan are authorized to work it. Kai got ahold of some but they are a huge Japanese company. Note this lesser known CH brand is the only company in china that I know of trying to claim ZDP-189. So how does a no name company in china get ahold of this steel that even big companies have a hard time getting it? And even if CH is made by a larger factory I don't know of a Chinese knife brand with any legitimacy claiming to use the steel. Here is a link to the thread on the topic.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/612099-Looking-for-ZDP189

So , because I misspelled one word I lost credibility ? Make sense :thumbup: But , for 20 bucks I can BUY enough S90V steel /which is a lot better choice then ZDP / to make six blade for folder knive , just saying ............................

Better to you maybe but not exactly a fact. And $20 might buy you a 12" blank so your knives would have 2" blades. if you managed to waste NOTHING.

 

[evilgreg]

I challenge that with this one.

FWIW, the Chinese clone in the middle cost $70, and outside of the nifty bimetal blade, it's not unlike the 0454 above it (materials, fit and finish, etc.). It's a clone of a slightly smaller SiDis knife model whose name I don't know, and it's just enough smaller than the 0454 and bigger than the 0450cfzpd that I've come to prefer carrying it.

 

[d00mtr33]

If it's the clone of the Zieba front flipper than that steel was proven to be an equivalent of M2 with a hrc of ~60. Being Russian I watch some Russian knife reviews and that was one of them. The buyer had the knife tested by doing an element analysis and a hardness tester. M2 is a good steel but its very different from zdp 189 composition wise.

 

[T.K.C.]

I thought that too but it could still be aluminum. Likely neither though. This post smells like shill.

Sniff, sniff......Yup, smells like shill.

 

[John Wesley H]

I am the original poster. Did not respond here for a while because basically, a lot of posters here pissed me off. My knife is now two years old, used daily and though hard to sharpen, as all d2 knives are, it is still a great knife. I was using a ZT 808 as my daily for a long time and greatly prefer this ch knife. The knife holds an edge extremely well, but really works best when using diamond sharpening stones for the initial cut when sharpening. I love all the criticism and insinuations on here, with most pure opinion with no real actual experience. I had let my membership lapse is why my name is slightly different. I just happened to remember this post today after using my knife to cut a few dozen boxes, and wanted to follow up. My ZT has an Elmax blade, and frankly, I prefer the D2 on this knife. the Elmax has chipped with far less abuse than I give my D2 knife, and with the ZT costing considerably more money. I use my knives, and practicality is my number one criteria. I am not a novice, and do not really collect per se, I just buy what I use. If you guys do not like Asian knives, well thats your perogative, (and loss). I have many kitchen knives as well, all Japanese carbon steel, and friends that use them are generally shocked, saying they are scary sharp if they are used to German kitchen knives. They take a bit more care, but I think they are worth it.

 

[SpySmasher]

I am the original poster. Did not respond here for a while because basically, a lot of posters here pissed me off. My knife is now two years old, used daily and though hard to sharpen, as all d2 knives are, it is still a great knife. I was using a ZT 808 as my daily for a long time and greatly prefer this ch knife. The knife holds an edge extremely well, but really works best when using diamond sharpening stones for the initial cut when sharpening. I love all the criticism and insinuations on here, with most pure opinion with no real actual experience. I had let my membership lapse is why my name is slightly different. I just happened to remember this post today after using my knife to cut a few dozen boxes, and wanted to follow up. My ZT has an Elmax blade, and frankly, I prefer the D2 on this knife. the Elmax has chipped with far less abuse than I give my D2 knife, and with the ZT costing considerably more money. I use my knives, and practicality is my number one criteria. I am not a novice, and do not really collect per se, I just buy what I use. If you guys do not like Asian knives, well thats your perogative, (and loss). I have many kitchen knives as well, all Japanese carbon steel, and friends that use them are generally shocked, saying they are scary sharp if they are used to German kitchen knives. They take a bit more care, but I think they are worth it.

Good comeback.

 

[Danke42]

I am the original poster. Did not respond here for a while because basically, a lot of posters here pissed me off. My knife is now two years old, used daily and though hard to sharpen, as all d2 knives are, it is still a great knife. I was using a ZT 808 as my daily for a long time and greatly prefer this ch knife. The knife holds an edge extremely well, but really works best when using diamond sharpening stones for the initial cut when sharpening. I love all the criticism and insinuations on here, with most pure opinion with no real actual experience. I had let my membership lapse is why my name is slightly different. I just happened to remember this post today after using my knife to cut a few dozen boxes, and wanted to follow up. My ZT has an Elmax blade, and frankly, I prefer the D2 on this knife. the Elmax has chipped with far less abuse than I give my D2 knife, and with the ZT costing considerably more money. I use my knives, and practicality is my number one criteria. I am not a novice, and do not really collect per se, I just buy what I use. If you guys do not like Asian knives, well thats your perogative, (and loss). I have many kitchen knives as well, all Japanese carbon steel, and friends that use them are generally shocked, saying they are scary sharp if they are used to German kitchen knives. They take a bit more care, but I think they are worth it.

Way to miss the point. It's not Asian made blades that anyone has an issue with.

But glad you feel you didn't get ripped off.

 

[Sergeua]

OP you look like a Chinese guy who created an account to promote your product. Now you create another account. What's new?

 

[Mo2]

this is likely a shill. for 1 he claims hard use but doesn't prove it. then why name "New Jersey importer"? seriously, if he's not a vendor here why even mention it?
you say you like D2? what do you like about it? I had one of these Chinese d2 knives, I don't prefer it, chippy, rusts, can't sharpen it unless using diamond's. I tossed that blade, it was terrible.

you know of the two suns version which was shown in a clone review, so you know this product well, trying to get free advertising?

the photo you are showing is not of your knife. it's from a Chinese seller. if you have this knife why didn't you take a photo of it? shill? free advertising? this is what the Chinese normally do to sell their stuff.

then you claim as good as zt or bench made without any example, and proof, do you have any ZT's or bm's? maybe you don't and your just saying this, would be my guess, cause its good marketing, without actual evidence.

your prior posts say you have a zt801, is that your only example? one knife to justify them all? the rest of your posts say that you are price conscious about what you buy, nothing wrong with that, but your going on a limb here saying its better than zt or bm. better than an 801 which offers a warranty, free sharpening excellent action, materials that are what they say they are etc.

honestly I'm not falling for it. do any vendors here offer this brand?

can a moderator step in here?

I'll just re quote my original post.

It looks like your 801 turned into an 808 now? Lolol and is your zt a clone? Probably a clone. I doubt you would know if your buying from Amazon, eBay or China.

Shill