I love the axis lock... but hate the Omega springs.

Great points about continuing to use the knife, even after the springs break. :thumbup:

I'd really be interested to know what the people at Benchmade believe is the most common reason for a spring to break. Rust corrosion or chemical exposure, metal removal via grinding from random debris, metal fatigue, or possibly metal defects/ imperfections (others?).

Anyone's guess is as good as mine.
 
My guess (and that's all that it is) is that most of these break because out of the large number of springs made each year a certain number have latent problems: bad heat treatment, defect in the wire, etc.

As a secondary matter, though I've never tried to keep track of reports of broken springs, it is my very soft impression that some models suffer more broken springs than others, which if true would suggest that there is some design element that can contribute to breaks.

In any case, as I think we've discussed, broken springs are a very uncommon event.
 
I'll throw in my 2cents. My "Guess" and I stress guess is the following:

1. Defects in manufacture of the spring. Anything, and I do mean anything mass produced will have an occasional defect in manufacture. No way around this fact and it applies to anything. However, I believe this is the LEAST common cause of spring breakage. But it must happen at some point but like I said I think very, very rare.

2. External defects or objects like a piece of G10 protruding or debris like a pebble or other hard object gets wedged inside the scale and wears on the spring. Again, I think it's possible but also very rare.

3. And what I "think" is the most common cause, excessive flipping or actuation of the mechanism. A spring will wear and metal fatigue results. From all the repots of spring breakage I've read about, because it's never happened to me or anyone I know personally, I've noted many admitted that they "flipped their knives excessively" like while watching TV. I think this is probably the most common cause.

Kershaw say's their torsion springs have an expected life expectancy of 10,000 cycles, give of take.

The Omega spring is much thinner but on the other hand, very little actual stress is placed on the spring when it's actuated or holding the AXIS lock in place. Still, flip it enough and it can wear to the point of fatigue.

Lastly, I think corrosion is the least common cause of spring breakage. At least from the few pictures I've seen. I've never actually seen the presence of any corrosion or rust on a broken spring, but again as so few ever post any pictures it's very hard to know.

I too would really like to hear Benchmade's opinion on this. What they think is the most common cause of sprig breakage. Also their figures of the percentage of warranty repairs that involve Omega spring breakage vs the numbers of that model produced. I think that would be most interesting. I also think the number (breakage vs produced) would be very, very low considering how uncommon and rare spring breakage really is.

But as I said, I really am just guessing here...
 
Last edited:
this thread jinx'd my 4-month-old BM 484 Nakamura. =(

IMG_20140714_205709239_HDR.jpg
 
99cuts said:
this thread jinx'd my 4-month-old BM 484 Nakamura. =(

IMG_20140714_205709239_HDR.jpg
Click to expand...

That does it. I was going to buy my first Benchmade in a Ritter Griptilian, but count me out. I'm hearing about too many of these omega spring failures.
Seems like owners expect it to happen.
 
Last edited:
csisland said:
That does it. I was going to buy my first Benchmade in a Ritter Griptilian, but count me out. I'm reading too many of these omega spring failures.
Click to expand...

In the interest of saving you from doing yourself a disservice, don't let these kinds of threads sway you from buying an Axis lock knife. This is truly the norm for the entire knife industry. It doesn't matter what company or what kind of knife, you will find threads regarding breakage, weakness, and warranty repair for everything. The reason for this is that people are more likely to say something when things go wrong rather than when they go right. Benchmade sells copious amounts of knives every year, and the few problems you are reading about only represent a very small fraction of the knives that are sold.

Imagine if for every picture of a broken knife, you saw hundreds if not thousands of pictures of the same model doing just fine after years of use. That would be closer to the reality of the mater.
 
pbcg said:
I'll throw in my 2cents. My "Guess" and I stress guess is the following:

3. And what I "think" is the most common cause, excessive flipping or actuation of the mechanism. A spring will wear and metal fatigue results. From all the repots of spring breakage I've read about, because it's never happened to me or anyone I know personally, I've noted many admitted that they "flipped their knives excessively" like while watching TV. I think this is probably the most common cause.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree (amicably). I have a bunch of very high cycle Axis knives, including two very old 710s that have been flicked a zillion times. One goes back to the very beginning of production in 1998, the other is a 710T. If repetitive cycles were the cause of springs breaking, these would have broken a decade ago.
 
This is very intriguing as to what the reason might be for these omega springs to break. Some of them might be from wear and tear but how do you explain some of the knives that have only been used for a short while?
 
Last edited:
I still EDC two axis lock knives. I wouldn't shun them. I do think something may be off. Like a bad batch of springs or something.


csisland said:
That does it. I was going to buy my first Benchmade in a Ritter Griptilian, but count me out. I'm hearing about too many of these omega spring failures.
Seems like owners expect it to happen.
Click to expand...
 
csisland said:
Seems like owners expect it to happen.
Click to expand...

I do :eek:

The Government said:
In the interest of saving you from doing yourself a disservice, don't let these kinds of threads sway you from buying an Axis lock knife. This is truly the norm for the entire knife industry. It doesn't matter what company or what kind of knife, you will find threads regarding breakage, weakness, and warranty repair for everything. The reason for this is that people are more likely to say something when things go wrong rather than when they go right. Benchmade sells copious amounts of knives every year, and the few problems you are reading about only represent a very small fraction of the knives that are sold.

Imagine if for every picture of a broken knife, you saw hundreds if not thousands of pictures of the same model doing just fine after years of use. That would be closer to the reality of the mater.
Click to expand...

While it is sad that some people will miss out on a lot of great Benchmade knives because they don't trust the Axis lock, that is on BM for not using a more durable and reliable lock. Even if corrosion is to blame, lots of knives are exposed to the elements whose locks don't fail because of it.

Lots of knives have issues, but most of those issues can be traced to something stupid (spine whacking, prying, etc.) while omega springs seem to break randomly and unpredictably.

I would love a 710 or HK 14715, among others, but don't trust them because of the omega springs.

***
Edited to add: I would buy a small pile of axis lock Benchmade knives (starting with the HK 14715) if they would sell/send out spare omega springs so that I could fix them when/if they break, but they won't :confused:
***

I think that the Axis Assist is a brilliant solution, for those who don't trust the Omega springs. If the omega springs break, the assist spring holds the blade open, and on some of them there is a "safety" that can be used to lock the blade open whether the omega springs are functioning or not. With the Axis Assist, there is little reason to worry about the omega springs breaking because the knife will still function (all without jamming a stick or something into the works, the solution for a non assisted axis lock failure).

There are Benchmades that use other locks, my current favorite is the 755 MPR. I can't imagine how I could possibly break that knife :D
 
Last edited:
MatthewSB said:
Even if corrosion is to blame, lots of knives are exposed to the elements whose locks don't fail because of it.

Lots of knives have issues, but most of those issues can be traced to something stupid (spine whacking, prying, etc.) while omega springs seem to break randomly and unpredictably.

I would love a 710 or HK 14715, among others, but don't trust them because of the omega springs.
Click to expand...

I am not sure I can agree with your logic. Do you not buy motorcycle, because rubber tier always goes flat? As we all see this thread. because no material is perfect. I don't think we hear too many "slipped frame/ liner lock" because it is not binary failure. The spring steel is thin, so some of the omega spring may not have been annealed perfectly.

BKC must have sold hundred of thousand blades over 25 years, and AXIS lock , 15 years or so. Just as JNewell has mentioned, there are far many knives been used to open / close AXIS lock for millions, if not billions of times. We can ask BKC what is MTBF is, but my point is that this lock is highly reliable.

I do live in Northwest, where it is not too arid to worry about sand grinding spring, but I do maintain the lock with periodical maintenances. I have never had breakage in any of my Benchmade nor dozen of buddies who also own original 710 have ever mentioned one of twin omega spring snapped.

I think we have more chance of probability in cutting ourselves with knife than one of Omega spring snaps.

Of cause YMMV, because of how meticulous we maintain our blades.
 
sunandsteel said:
This is very intriguing as to what the reason might be for these omega springs to break. Some of them might be from wear and tear but how do you explain some of the knives that have only been used for a short while?
Click to expand...

That's one of the reasons that I think that defective springs (bad wire, bad HT, bad ?) are the issue with many of these failures.
 
MatthewSB said:
While it is sad that some people will miss out on a lot of great Benchmade knives because they don't trust the Axis lock, that is on BM for not using a more durable and reliable lock. Even if corrosion is to blame, lots of knives are exposed to the elements whose locks don't fail because of it.

Lots of knives have issues, but most of those issues can be traced to something stupid (spine whacking, prying, etc.) while omega springs seem to break randomly and unpredictably.
...
I think that the Axis Assist is a brilliant solution, for those who don't trust the Omega springs. If the omega springs break, the assist spring holds the blade open, and on some of them there is a "safety" that can be used to lock the blade open whether the omega springs are functioning or not. With the Axis Assist, there is little reason to worry about the omega springs breaking because the knife will still function (all without jamming a stick or something into the works, the solution for a non assisted axis lock failure).

There are Benchmades that use other locks, my current favorite is the 755 MPR. I can't imagine how I could possibly break that knife :D
Click to expand...

Actually, lots of liner/frame locks fail due to lock-slip from corrosion. And that 755MPR isn't likely to break, but as has been typed many times before, breaking isn't the concern, it's failing. Most liner-locks don't fail from spine-whacking, they fail from the user using the knife in regular fashion, be it stabbing or carving or cutting - the lock slips and blade closes as if it were a slip-joint. This happens with the knife functioning exactly as designed, i.e. nothing breaks, the lock just wasn't designed to handle those forces as well as other designs.

The axis-lock is FAR less likely to fail under ANY such stresses. Again, the omega-springs are NOT the lock. The knife "will still function" with BOTH springs absent. As to the assist, it does NOT keep the blade open with significant force (nor is it designed to), a slip-joint spring is stronger. The safety certainly helps to hold the lock-bar in place (though it is really intended to keep the knife from opening accidentally) just as the Roto-lock or LAWKS system used on liner/frame-locks. But why do unassisted liner/frame-locks need a safety if the spring is so reliable and unbreakable? Because it is NOT so reliable.

I certainly favor more durable springs, but the loss of a single spring is so rare and unlikely to result in injury, and the strength of the design so high amidst how user-friendly it is, and it is available on so many models, 'twould be folly to write off those knives for fear of a broken omega-spring. But there are so many other knife-designs out there to try, coming up with reasons (however unfounded) to limit yourself to fewer may be a good idea ;)
 
Actually, lots of liner/frame locks fail due to lock-slip from corrosion. And that 755MPR isn't likely to break, but as has been typed many times before, breaking isn't the concern, it's failing. Most liner-locks don't fail from spine-whacking, they fail from the user using the knife in regular fashion, be it stabbing or carving or cutting - the lock slips and blade closes as if it were a slip-joint. This happens with the knife functioning exactly as designed, i.e. nothing breaks, the lock just wasn't designed to handle those forces as well as other designs.
Click to expand...

The MPR isn't going to fail, the frame moves like 15 degrees to hold it open and titanium and steel really stick to one another when opened properly (forcefully). It can't over extend because of the paddle thing on top of the frame lock, so the worst that could happen is the blade would have a little bit of play which would suck, but isn't going to get my fingers cut off.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top