I love the axis lock... but hate the Omega springs.

[JNewell]

It may be overkill for the omega spring, but since I have it for my "other" interest, why not use it for knives as well.

Since I stopped rapid wrist flicks I seldom see operating temps over about 875 degrees F on any of my Axis knives.

 

[Buffalohump]

This thread reminds me of one they had in the auto knives section. People stressing about their auto springs getting worn if the knife is stored closed. I think sometimes people just find things to get stressed about. I'm sure its been said before but think about the thousands upon thousands of knives BM must sell every year. If the omega spring problem was that bad they would have revised the design by now.

 

[HuntBomb]

I own a half dozen axis-lock BMs (most have seen years of use) and I have yet to have an issue with omega springs.
I am in agreement with those who believe their axis locks are smoother than most other knives and I have not had a single problem with blade play either.

 

[The Government]

I've had a 940 that had both omega springs break. The first one isn't very noticeable, but when the second one breaks the knife stops functioning. Sent it back, no problem. I recently had one break in a 943, and I'm going to attempt to fix it myself with some music wire. It is hard to justify sending in a knife for the cost of shipping when the part only costs like 50 cents.

Even if it does void the warrenty, that isn't a big deal. The only thing that will ever need warrenty replacemen is the Omega spring. It is about time I just learned to do it myself.

Do I wish Benchmade would send me a new spring? Of course. Maybe I could sign a "dissassembly waiver" stating that I will not send them back a bag of parts.

 

[MatthewSB]

This thread made me think I had better, and did oil all of my Benchmade & Spyderco knives, joints and locks. I used Kroil Instrument Oil.

I just took a close look at my Spyderco's (Paramilitary & Paramilitary 2) and their lock system doesn't seem to have any tiny type of springs. The locking mechanism on them seems to be a sort of internal frame lock instead, meaning the one spring I can see is Beefy as it is an integral part of the frame. Time will tell.
I hope my one Benchmade with the Omega spring holds up.

I've tried to explain this before, but you put it into words better than I did. The Axis' "weakest link" is far weaker than most other systems.

I wonder if they will ever redesign the axis lock. Maybe something in place of the omega spring.

I hope so. Something like Spyderco's caged ball bearing lock, which uses a reliable and durable coil spring.

There are so many Benchmade knives that I'd like to use, but just won't because I don't trust the Axis lock.

 

[The Government]

Just got mine all taken apart, and thought I would share some pictures... I've got some music wire that I think might work to replace the spring...

Disassembly

After taking off the handle, the break is revealed...

Close up...

Entire spring mechanism taken out...

I'll post pics when it is fixed...:thumbup:

PS- One of those handle screws was really tight. I ended up breaking the tip off of one of the torx bits and twisting another (you can see that in the pictures). Luckily the bit-kit comes with two of each size.

 

[The Government]

Changing the springs wasn't too difficult. I made springs for both sides, plus an extra. One of the original springs is on the left, and an extra one I made from the music wire on the right. Not sure if the music wire is better or anything, but the lock is definitely nice and firm. A little stronger possibly than the original wire? It feels that way...

 

[chiral.grolim]

I've tried to explain this before, but you put it into words better than I did. The Axis' "weakest link" is far weaker than most other systems.

I hope so. Something like Spyderco's caged ball bearing lock, which uses a reliable and durable coil spring.

There are so many Benchmade knives that I'd like to use, but just won't because I don't trust the Axis lock.

As a matter of fact, the axis-lock is far LESS prone to failure than most other systems, especially the liner/frame-lock that dominates the market. It is simple, stronger than most designs, VERY reliable, ambidextrous, designed to eliminate wear over time, and extremely user friendly. The springs being the 'weakest link' is true, but axis-knives are more commonly used as Yo-Yos than any other design because the design makes it so easy. You don't see/hear-of many folks repeatedly stressing their back-locks like that If benchmade switched to more durable wire, it would be a definite :thumbup: but of my 3 Axis knives, only 1 has ever had spring issues.

If you limit yourself from the Axis lock, you may notice a significant lack of CBBL and bolt-lock knives on the market. Coil-springs also wear and break (though it should take longer). Perhaps if there were more available, or if they were as user-friendly as the axis-lock, you'd read about them breaking more often. Personally, I find the button/plunge-lock most user-friendly (e.g. Gerber Propel de-assisted) but I haven't been beating on it long enough to really comment on its reliability/durability - the tang-lock or the coil-spring. Keep in mind, if one omega-spring does happen to break, the lock still functions with greater reliability than most. When my 585 springs broke (bought 2009, first), I went more than a year on just one before losing the other (2013). The 520 and 15030 have never had an issue.

 

[Ballenxj]

Changing the springs wasn't too difficult. I made springs for both sides, plus an extra. One of the original springs is on the left, and an extra one I made from the music wire on the right. Not sure if the music wire is better or anything, but the lock is definitely nice and firm. A little stronger possibly than the original wire? It feels that way...

Good Job. Keep us posted on how well they hold up. You never know, you might end up producing them for the BF crowd.

 

[pbcg]

As a matter of fact, the axis-lock is far LESS prone to failure than most other systems, especially the liner/frame-lock that dominates the market. It is simple, stronger than most designs, VERY reliable, ambidextrous, designed to eliminate wear over time, and extremely user friendly. The springs being the 'weakest link' is true, but axis-knives are more commonly used as Yo-Yos than any other design because the design makes it so easy. You don't see/hear-of many folks repeatedly stressing their back-locks like that If benchmade switched to more durable wire, it would be a definite :thumbup: but of my 3 Axis knives, only 1 has ever had spring issues.

If you limit yourself from the Axis lock, you may notice a significant lack of CBBL and bolt-lock knives on the market. Coil-springs also wear and break (though it should take longer). Perhaps if there were more available, or if they were as user-friendly as the axis-lock, you'd read about them breaking more often. Personally, I find the button/plunge-lock most user-friendly (e.g. Gerber Propel de-assisted) but I haven't been beating on it long enough to really comment on its reliability/durability - the tang-lock or the coil-spring. Keep in mind, if one omega-spring does happen to break, the lock still functions with greater reliability than most. When my 585 springs broke (bought 2009, first), I went more than a year on just one before losing the other (2013). The 520 and 15030 have never had an issue.

Very well said and I couldn't agree more.:thumbup:


As I often say to those who express concern about the reliability of the AXIS lock due to spring failure, I've read, heard, and seen far more, and by a very large margin reports of failures / slippage involving Frame & Liner Locks then the AXIS. I would also say this includes Lock Backs as well.

If you are worried about your AXIS lock failing due to Omega spring breakage then you should be really worried about your Frame, Liner, or Lock back failing as they are far more prone or likely to do so.

Plus, when an Omega spring breaks the lock doesn't fail and still functions.

Lastly, and I think you hit on a very good point. The AXIS locks greatest attribute, It's ease of use, is also it's undoing. People enjoy flipping them so much some do it for the sake of doing so and flip them excessively causing premature wear. I haven't heard anyone say they sit around flipping their Lock back thousands of times while watching TV. Hear it all the time with the AXIS lock.

Like I've posted many times, I've been using AXIS lock knives since almost the beginning and never had a broken spring or any other problem for that matter with the lock. Although spring breakage does happen, it's proportionally very rare (to the total amount of knives sold) and I continue to have complete confidence in the lock, or as much confidence as you can realistically have in any mechanical device.

 

[MatthewSB]

As a matter of fact, the axis-lock is far LESS prone to failure than most other systems, especially the liner/frame-lock that dominates the market.

Only if you are considering the cheap, foreign made liner locks that "dominate the market". If you compare similarly priced knives (like the Spyderco Military, ZT 0200, Emerson CQC-7) lock issues are unheard of except for old, abused, and worn out knives while omega springs seem to break randomly, whether the knife is a few weeks or years old.

If you are worried about your AXIS lock failing due to Omega spring breakage then you should be really worried about your Frame, Liner, or Lock back failing as they are far more prone or likely to do so.

I'm not at all worried. How is the liner lock on my Spyderco Military, or the compression lock of my Para2, going to fail? It's been my experience that once the lock bar wears in, it stops wearing. I'm pretty sure that most liner/frame/compression locks that fail were abused.

A tiny wire spring is far more likely to break than a heat treated steel or titanium bar.

 

[cards94]

As a matter of fact, the axis-lock is far LESS prone to failure than most other systems, especially the liner/frame-lock that dominates the market. It is simple, stronger than most designs, VERY reliable, ambidextrous, designed to eliminate wear over time, and extremely user friendly.

You forgot to add that it collects alot of dirt and dust inside.

 

[csisland]

A tiny wire spring

I'm not picking sides but count me out for this reason alone. A tiny wire spring.

 

[pbcg]

Only if you are considering the cheap, foreign made liner locks that "dominate the market". If you compare similarly priced knives (like the Spyderco Military, ZT 0200, Emerson CQC-7) lock issues are unheard of except for old, abused, and worn out knives while omega springs seem to break randomly, whether the knife is a few weeks or years old.

I'm not at all worried. How is the liner lock on my Spyderco Military, or the compression lock of my Para2, going to fail? It's been my experience that once the lock bar wears in, it stops wearing. I'm pretty sure that most liner/frame/compression locks that fail were abused.

A tiny wire spring is far more likely to break than a heat treated steel or titanium bar.

I've been reading these forums for years and have seen plenty of reports of various locks failing. It happens and I've read far more instances of locks other then the AXIS failing.


Read some of the threads in the now archived kai sub forum or just in general and you will find plenty of reports of lock slippage / failure with frame and liner locks.

 

[billym]

If you don't trust the Omega spring don't buy the knives that have them. More for the rest of us.
Over 11 years of BM/Griptilian EDC, 7 different models, no broken springs. BTW I don't flip open my knives for sport.
Funny how most have zero issues but a few outspoken few make it sound like an epidemic. It's a great lock.

 

[chiral.grolim]

You forgot to add that it collects alot of dirt and dust inside.

I haven't had that problem as much with axis as liner-locks. It's a flow-through design so what little debris gets stuck is easily removed, whereas with liner-locks things get wedged between the liner and scale or behind the liner. With dust, my knives don't usually sit around long enough for much to collect. Back-locks occasionally get lint/wood-chips/sawdust stuck in the tang-cut-out, preventing proper engagement, I've never had a sufficient amount of debris remain in front of the axis-bar to prevent the springs from forcing it onto the tang. My Gerber Propel (button-lock) has had the least difficulties of any but again may not be as strong as axis or triad designs.

So yeah, the "dirt and dust" complaint seems universal to all designs but less so to the axis than lots of others in my experience. *shrug*

 

[chiral.grolim]

Only if you are considering the cheap, foreign made liner locks that "dominate the market". If you compare similarly priced knives (like the Spyderco Military, ZT 0200, Emerson CQC-7) lock issues are unheard of except for old, abused, and worn out knives while omega springs seem to break randomly, whether the knife is a few weeks or years old.

I'm not at all worried. How is the liner lock on my Spyderco Military, or the compression lock of my Para2, going to fail? It's been my experience that once the lock bar wears in, it stops wearing. I'm pretty sure that most liner/frame/compression locks that fail were abused.

A tiny wire spring is far more likely to break than a heat treated steel or titanium bar.

It's been mentioned, but yes there have been issues with Emerson & ZT folders. It's not that the lock-bar breaks, but that the lock slips, and that is an unfortunate part of the design, that lock-engagement/disengagement requires that the bar be moved relatively easily to the side, and any force in the closing-direction puts a certain level of side-ways force on the lock-bar such that it can slip. Also placement of the lock-mechanism generally results in unintended manipulation during use, which can also contribute to lock-slip. Good manufacturing minimizes this and tries to accommodate wear but users still need to be aware of these concerns. Also, that liner/frame is usually deliberately soft cheap steel (420J2) intended to resist corrosion, not resist deformation. When a liner-lock is abused to the point of destruction, it takes a lot less force to deform/crack it than is required for the axis-bar. The main complaint against liner-locks beyond low-strength and reliability is of course ease of use, which is what most folk laud the axis for.

Again, the omega springs are not the axis lock, the bar is. If one spring breaks, it should be replaced but the lock still functions well. If both springs break, I'd advise shoving a bit of wood or plastic or metal or cord behind the lock-bar (or the safety switch if you have an A/O or auto like the barrage) when engaged whereupon the lock still functions as a lock, i.e. it prevents the blade from closing accidentally. It is certainly less user-friendly at that point, doesn't work as it should, but it hasn't "failed".

If the liner-lock is prone to slipping or blade-play, you could devise a liner-block (like the roto or LAWKS) but it's otherwise shot. A slipping back-lock might as well be a slip-joint.

The most common complaint about the Para2 lock is unavoidable blade-play - just part of the design. *shrug* I don't see it breaking or slipping ever. But again, what knife designs feature this? You can name them on one hand.

You can abuse most axis-locks to no end and not experience failure (lock-slip), although i have certainly seen it, where the axis-bar doesn't fully engage the tang, has nothing to do with the springs - VERY bad since benchmades tend to pivot so easily. Hopefully those are rare.

But again, I support calls for Benchmade to make/use more durable spring-wire :thumbup:

 

[cards94]

Nothing against the axis lock because I had a Triage which I sold because of the weight, and nothing else, but I'm going to guess and say that of all the Benchmade knives that are sent back for repair, 1/2 is probably because of an axis lock problem, most likely the omega spring. If people are using piano wire as a quick fix, this just turns me away from the axis lock.

 

[chiral.grolim]

... I'm going to guess and say that of all the knives that are sent back for repair, 1/2 is probably because of an axis lock problem, most likely the omega spring. If people are using piano wire as a quick fix, this just turns me away from the axis lock.

Wow, you think that omega-spring failures are the most common repair-issue among ALL KNIVES ?? Or did you mean just among Benchmade knives? If the latter, one could simply ask a Benchmade rep if they have internal data on that. If the former, I'd like to know where you even got that idea...

 

[cards94]

Wow, you think that omega-spring failures are the most common repair-issue among ALL KNIVES ?? Or did you mean just among Benchmade knives? If the latter, one could simply ask a Benchmade rep if they have internal data on that. If the former, I'd like to know where you even got that idea...

Meant to say Benchmade knives.