I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Bknives said:
Greetings from Europe, so maybe my English is not so good.

I have a Manix 2, Gunny, Knafs Lulu and a MKM Malga 5 in Magnacut.

I am very impressed!

"Yesterday my son breaked a Branch from a Tree, so i want to cut i clean off, that the Tree could heal better.
It was about 0.5 Inches thick, hanging there."
So i took my Manix 2 and it gone through it like nothing, i was very suprised!
I use it normaly to cut carrots and something else on a plastic Cuttingboard, never it had any nicks.

My S90V Versions of Benchmade Flyway and hide Hidden Mountain are much easier to nick.

The Gunny and the Knafs LULU (a little bit thinner Edge with Convex) cut wood also like nothing!
They stay sharp very long.

My oppion is: to make a chart with Edge Retention, without nothing to say about toughness, could be missleading.

Sometimes my S90V blades stay longer sharp, but when rougher work is done, the Magnacut holds its edge longer.
I could be wrong, but it is only my oppinion or maybe a feeling, when i work with it.

Get the right Knife for the task.
I think, it is much more about the geometry of the blade.

I changed a little bit the geometry of my Knafs Lulu, with a Convexed Bevel and it performs so much better now!

I have the Malga 5 Magnacut and a Malga 6 Version in M390.
My feeling is, that the Magnacut gets sharper and hold the absolut sharpness longer.
But after a time, the M390 holds its "duller" Edge longer, than the Magnacut (with "duller" edge, i mean a good Working Edge without shaving possibility).

Also i hear often that the Esee 6 is a good Knife, but the Steel sucks.
I can´t confirm that generally.
I convexed the Bevel of the Esee 6 and i holds the Edge very good!
Better than some other Knifes from me, with better Edge Retention Rating.

I have had a Aurora in CrueWear.
With my Gunny in Magnacut i have the feeling, that there is no real performance difference between Crue-Wear or Magnacut.

I think that it is often more a feeling about edge retention, but could be missleaded by certain situations, like little stones in the wood...

I hope you understand what i mean, with my basic english.

Greetings, stay Healthy
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With regard to the tree branch, it might work better to use a high-quality, small pruning saw to make this type of cut. We have access to very good knives but there are some cutting tasks for which they are not appropriate including cutting wood "across the grain" (perpendicular to the direction of growth).
 
That‘s absolutely right, but the folder was in my pocket, when the kids are on their „Playground“ Forest behind our property.
It worked absolutely fine.

In my portable wood-working Bag there is Saw, a Ontario SP-8, a Fällkniven A1XB, a Fiskars Axe and some other stuff, so I have it always in my car behind my driving seat, but not there ;)
 
Bknives said:
That‘s absolutely right, but the folder was in my pocket, when the kids are on their „Playground“ Forest behind our property.
It worked absolutely fine.

In my portable wood-working Bag there is Saw, a Ontario SP-8, a Fällkniven A1XB, a Fiskars Axe and some other stuff, so I have it always in my car behind my driving seat, but not there ;)
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In any case, your children are fortunate to have access to a forest playground! I hope they have the opportunity to spend much time there.
 
MichalZ said:
1. Am I right thinking that, roughly speaking, simple steels with less carbides (52100, Aebl) or smaller carbides will have more uniform structure which translates to finer edge and edge stability (not talking about wear resistance).

2. Your tests brought to my attention the poor toughness and edge retention performance of 1095, steel that was portraited as epitome of material for survival hard use knives, choppers.

Is that the same with 0170-6c or 1095 crovan?

I am asking in particular one series of knives on question, A.G Russell sandbox Bowie and dagger which are made from DM1 Tough (appears to be 0170-6c, old carbon V) and based on tests shown they display excellent toughness (the dagger is hammered into butchers table and bent 90 degrees to the side without breaking or any deformation)


Am I missing something here?

Regards
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1. In general, steels with less carbide and smaller carbides have higher toughness.
2. 1095 and 0170-6C and 1095CV are not the same. The other two steels have a chromium and vanadium addition.
3. One thing to note about demonstrations of a knife is that it is a demonstration of a knife not a steel. That includes the geometry, the heat treatment, etc. That's without even getting into whether or not the demonstration looks more impressive than it is.
 
Looks interesting. I would like your opinion which steel I should use for really tough knife ? Knife that will be hard to bend/break even if prying a door open or battoning hard wood. Doesn't need to be stainless steel. What Rockwell number I should run it to ?

Thank you.
 
octanom said:
Looks interesting. I would like your opinion which steel I should use for really tough knife ? Knife that will be hard to bend/break even if prying a door open or battoning hard wood. Doesn't need to be stainless steel. What Rockwell number I should run it to ?

Thank you.
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#NotLarrin but the toughest steel he has tested is Z-Tuff (aka CD#1) at 61 RC. Though I doubt you need that level of toughness unless you are making a very long and thin sword. 3V at 61 or 1V at 63 with sufficient thickness will also be indestructible and give you better edge retention than Z-Tuff.

high-alloy-toughness-3-7-2024.png
 
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If you want hard to bend go thicker, once you get thick and thicker edge geometry the steel type does not matter as much. When I was doing stupid coupon breaking in a vice tests 80CrV2 was the champ. The bend to break strength seemed to really be dependent on carbide volume at the hardness I was running the steels, even at 62RC 80CrV2 was champ.

octanom said:
Looks interesting. I would like your opinion which steel I should use for really tough knife ? Knife that will be hard to bend/break even if prying a door open or battoning hard wood. Doesn't need to be stainless steel. What Rockwell number I should run it to ?

Thank you.
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Yeah, I was actually thinking of Z-Tuff or CPM 3V with thickness of 0.18 inch. Could this thickness work or should go little but thicker ?

Thank you for comment.
 
octanom said:
Yeah, I was actually thinking of Z-Tuff or CPM 3V with thickness of 0.18 inch. Could this thickness work or should go little but thicker ?

Thank you for comment.
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I don't know how thick you need to go, i dont like thick knives as I have zero desire to pry with a knife. Z-tuff and 3v broke easy compared to 80CrV2 in my bend to break test. Z-tuff was the hardest to break of the high alloy I had but 52100 and 80CrV2 were a large step above.
 
Seedy Lot said:
I don't know how thick you need to go, i dont like thick knives as I have zero desire to pry with a knife. Z-tuff and 3v broke easy compared to 80CrV2 in my bend to break test. Z-tuff was the hardest to break of the high alloy I had but 52100 and 80CrV2 were a large step above.
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Thank you for the input. Obviously I don't want to pry open a door with a knife.

More like a analogy for something that is really tough and almost unbreakable. I know if you want to break something you will do it eventually.

Just want to produce a knife that I don't need to be a careful with and can rely on.
 
octanom said:
Thank you for the input. Obviously I don't want to pry open a door with a knife.

More like a analogy for something that is really tough and almost unbreakable. I know if you want to break something you will do it eventually.

Just want to produce a knife that I don't need to be a careful with and can rely on.
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Well, it's a knife, you cut stuff with the edge.

The further you move towards indestructible and carefree use, the less performance it will have for its actual function which is cutting with an edge.

There's not much need for attention to detail if carefree use and indestructibility are the only parameters that are required. We don't need to geek out on steel. You just need extremely thick geometry that doesn't cut very well.

The worse it cuts, the better the toughness.

In fact, a dull edge is going to be the world's greatest carefree edge because a sharp edge is a stress riser that will chip easily for non-cutting tasks like bludgeoning cinder blocks, stabbing car doors, and throwing at a tree.

You don't need an edge for doing goofy stuff like that because there's no cutting involved.

Seriously, you could probably save money and time just buying a cheap pack of throwing knives which should check all these boxes.
 
Best to start a new conversation in the Shop Talk section for further design questions.
 
Seedy Lot said:
I don't know how thick you need to go, i dont like thick knives as I have zero desire to pry with a knife. Z-tuff and 3v broke easy compared to 80CrV2 in my bend to break test. Z-tuff was the hardest to break of the high alloy I had but 52100 and 80CrV2 were a large step above.
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What hardness was each?
 
Larrin said:
Recently I was able to acquire a used CATRA machine, so I heat treated just about every knife steel I had, made 57 knives with the help of knifemaker Shawn Houston, and tested them all to see which cut the longest. For a few of the steels I did multiple heat treatments to look at a couple variables and to see the effect of hardness. I also compared edge retention and toughness to see which steels have the best balance of properties. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/
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We have a manmade metallic obsidian knife. Can we send you 1 or 2 to test the edge retention?
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=913984687361007
 
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