I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Hi!This is what I was talking about. Elmax at 57-58 Hrc. This hardness shows real quality of steel and quality of heat treat.
 
If you want knives in the softer end of the spectrum then you may as well stick with simple steels. The more advanced alloys wont offer much in that hardness other than increased cost.
 
conan11 said:
I like higher hardnesses. That's why I buy custom instead of factory. And Larrin's information means we can have the best knives in the world.
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We not talking about knives but about steels. My opinion is that Buck 119 in Magnacut with hardness 58 Hrc is significantly better than Buck 119 in 420 HC on 58Hrc. You think i'ts not?
 
SharpBits said:
If you want knives in the softer end of the spectrum then you may as well stick with simple steels. The more advanced alloys wont offer much in that hardness other than increased cost.
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In my personal opinion softer end would be below 55 Hrc, 55 to 57 is medium, 58 optimal, 59 to 61 are hard steels, after 61 steels are very hard.
 
It is not. You leave alot of performance on behind running Magnacut (or most daily use steels for that matter) soft. Take S90V for example. at 58 HRC it's an...okay steel. At 62 HRC the steel shines for what it is, a high wear resistant steel that holds an edge. Same for Magnacut, Elmax and many others. 58 HRC is good for machetes or very large chopping knives. BUT, Hardness is only part of the equation. A generalized statement about HRC is like saying a Ford Fiesta is the best car. will it go from point A to point B...sure. Are there better cars out there...yes.
 
zorandjurkic said:
We not talking about knives but about steels. My opinion is that Buck 119 in Magnacut with hardness 58 Hrc is significantly better than Buck 119 in 420 HC on 58Hrc. You think i'ts not?
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That I don't know. But Magnacut at 62 will be better than both.
 
navman said:
It is not. You leave alot of performance on behind running Magnacut (or most daily use steels for that matter) soft. Take S90V for example. at 58 HRC it's an...okay steel. At 62 HRC the steel shines for what it is, a high wear resistant steel that holds an edge. Same for Magnacut, Elmax and many others. 58 HRC is good for machetes or very large chopping knives. BUT, Hardness is only part of the equation. A generalized statement about HRC is like saying a Ford Fiesta is the best car. will it go from point A to point B...sure. Are there better cars out there...yes.
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Armosphere gas engine have 90km per hour optimal speed where you see witch engene is most durable, most frugal and witch parts will be first broken. On this speed engine last longest. So can you drive 90km per hour whole trip? On blades that would be like this. If you have two same knifes with s90v blade optimal values would be on 58 Hrc knife. At 62 it will be easy breakable and absolutely hard for resharpening. Edge quality would be same but 62 Hrc knife would hold this edge significantly longer. 58Hrc will be tougher, most durable on breaking and would be significantly easier to resharpen. So optimal hardness is 58 Hrc. For rolled and powdered steels.
 
conan11 said:
That I don't know. But Magnacut at 62 will be better than both.
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No, it just holds edge longer but much easyer to breakaing and prone to chipping. Edge is same quality at both hardness. On 58 Hrc it will be much tougher and easier for sharpening. Magnacut is without question one of if not the best steel for blades. This steel must significantly outperform 440C on 58 Hrc. If it's not case this two steels will be the same in quality.
 
zorandjurkic said:
Armosphere gas engine have 90km per hour optimal speed where you see witch engene is most durable, most frugal and witch parts will be first broken. On this speed engine last longest. So can you drive 90km per hour whole trip? On blades that would be like this. If you have two same knifes with s90v blade optimal values would be on 58 Hrc knife. At 62 it will be easy breakable and absolutely hard for resharpening. Edge quality would be same but 62 Hrc knife would hold this edge significantly longer. 58Hrc will be tougher, most durable on breaking and would be significantly easier to resharpen. So optimal hardness is 58 Hrc. For rolled and powdered steels.
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Not to argue, but the engine comment seems a bit skewed. Engine sizes and designs will differ drastically, as well as gearing (changing RPM’s), so saying that all engines are optimal at ‘X’ speed is leaving out a lot of information.

Regarding knife steel- there is more to toughness than just hardness.

Just my thoughts
 
navman said:
I can see you are set in your opinion. Best of luck to you. I'll keep building and using blades at the inferior higher
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High hardness is not inferior. If you need edge holding ability this is the only way. It's not right or wrong. I am interested what is for you optimal?
 
Depends on the steel and use of the blade. Magnacut is optimized at 61-64 HRC, with a balance of toughness and hardness. This would be for anything up to (roughly) a 6 inch hunting style knife. Anything designed for heavy chopping would, of course, be better optimized at a lower hardness, but that would not be where a high alloy steel shines.

Take AEBL for example (one of my favorite lower alloy steels). At high hardness it still support a thin edge (62-64 HRC) while remaining relatively tough (equal to 52100 bearing steel). In a larger blade, I would lower that to around 60 HRC as it would likely absorb more abuse. S90V I run at 61-62 as it was designed as a high performance cutting steel, not a tough chopping alloy.

Point being, general statements like "58 HRC is the best thing ever." are patently wrong for most steels and uses that a knife would/should be expected to perform.

Follow the science. Doc Larrin has done quite a bit of research and testing...I highly recommend the read (link at the front of this thread - post #1).
 
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