I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

On of the things I don't understand is the premium many knife collectors put on steels with extremely high wear resistance with very low toughness. Maybe the marketplace decided. Crucible went bankrupt and several of these alloys were discontinued. Maybe I'm one who feels good enough is just right.
 
Ron Texas said:
On of the things I don't understand is the premium many knife collectors put on steels with extremely high wear resistance with very low toughness. Maybe the marketplace decided. Crucible went bankrupt and several of these alloys were discontinued. Maybe I'm one who feels good enough is just right.
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It is like not understanding why not everybody is driving a Toyota corolla…😉
 
kasumi said:
It is like not understanding why not everybody is driving a Toyota corolla…😉
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I don't think so. The "don't understand" is my trying to be polite, so don't make fun of me. I could have made a more opinionated pronouncement like many here do. Just remember, the marketplace has decided so several of these extreme alloys are now gone.
 
Ron Texas said:
I don't think so. The "don't understand" is my trying to be polite, so don't make fun of me. I could have made a more opinionated pronouncement like many here do. Just remember, the marketplace has decided so several of these extreme alloys are now gone.
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I don't think you're making yourself clear. I'm a "good enough" sort myself...having been content with 52100, AEB-L, M4, D2, Cru-Wear, 3V and MagnaCut among others. I have a few at the higher end of edge retention, but I like a bit more "balance" for the most part.

But what are you saying? That there are not enough just "good enough" options left because "everyone" has opted for high wear resistance steels? And that's why Crucible went out of business. Because I don't believe that's correct...or perhaps not all of those things should have been combined in one short post to confuse the issue.

(Not making fun of you, for the record.)
 
Blues Blues I left too much open to interpretation. There are lots of good enough alternatives. Your list is just fine. Rex 121 and the like are not interfering with the availability of other widely used steels. What I do see is these expensive difficult to manufacture extreme low wear, low toughness tool steels are a dead end driven by demand from a small but vocal group of enthusiasts who value wear resistance over all else. I believe my views are confirmed by a number of these steels being discontinued in the aftermath of the Crucible bankruptcy. These steels are not anticipated to be profitable. I can't say why Crucible went broke but poor management is the most likely cause and any particular product is just a piece of the puzzle. Their successor will suffer from similar high labor costs and difficult regulatory environment. I hope for the best. Already it appears new batches of Magnacut show improved performance. My favorite budget knife steel is D2. I often read with dismay the comments of those who don't like it with no explanation. This is a hobby. With hobbies normal economic calculations go out the window. I'm guilty of it my self.
 
Ron Texas said:
Blues Blues I left too much open to interpretation. There are lots of good enough alternatives. Your list is just fine. Rex 121 and the like are not interfering with the availability of other widely used steels. What I do see is these expensive difficult to manufacture extreme low wear, low toughness tool steels are a dead end driven by demand from a small but vocal group of enthusiasts who value wear resistance over all else. I believe my views are confirmed by a number of these steels being discontinued in the aftermath of the Crucible bankruptcy. These steels are not anticipated to be profitable. I can't say why Crucible went broke but poor management is the most likely cause and any particular product is just a piece of the puzzle. Their successor will suffer from similar high labor costs and difficult regulatory environment. I hope for the best. Already it appears new batches of Magnacut show improved performance. My favorite budget knife steel is D2. I often read with dismay the comments of those who don't like it with no explanation. This is a hobby. With hobbies normal economic calculations go out the window. I'm guilty of it my self.
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I think some people often try one knife of a certain steel and base assumptions on that experience.

D2 from Dozier is simply great. I am sure there are some not-so-great examples seeing how many cheap blades are being imported with it. When I hear folks say they don’t like it, I can’t help but think they have never used a good knife with it.

I have MagnaCut knives from 6 makers, and have been very happy. I also know that some popular models have been sold with burn’t edges, so the performance would not be ideal.
 
Ron Texas said:
I don't think so. The "don't understand" is my trying to be polite, so don't make fun of me. I could have made a more opinionated pronouncement like many here do. Just remember, the marketplace has decided so several of these extreme alloys are now gone.
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“ so don't make fun of me. ”. Not my intention at all! You misunderstand my post.
 
Steels no longer being produced has nothing to do with the knife industry; the knife industry is a negligible share of global demand for steel. Some of Crucible's high edge retention steels are no longer being produced because the other companies are not set up to produce them and the demand from other industries is not enough to make it worth creating new manufacturing capabilities.

Edge retention should be something you care about depending on the level of toughness needed for what you're using the knife for. It's not a fad to want your knife to stay sharp for a longer amount of time, no more than it's a fad to profile your edge to the proper angle. And an often overlooked benefit of these steels is that they achieve hardness you can't get in lower alloy steels, which may be necessary to cut certain material.
 
B beeinak burnt edges are one way to screw up any blade. Bad heat treating is another. I would not expect the D2 in a $10 Wal-bug to perform like a small batch Dozier for $275 or a semi custom for more than twice that. Actually I have a Wal-bug and it's far below the performance of a $30 (or so) D2 Petrified Fish.
 
Ron Texas said:
B beeinak burnt edges are one way to screw up any blade. Bad heat treating is another. I would not expect the D2 in a $10 Wal-bug to perform like a small batch Dozier for $275 or a semi custom for more than twice that. Actually I have a Wal-bug and it's far below the performance of a $30 (or so) D2 Petrified Fish.
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Next to performance expecations related to the sort of steel steel and heat treat there is an even more important factor than those that determines knife performance. GEOMETRY. I pick a wallmart knife with a geometry that suits my needs over any custom made knife without that if it comes to performance….. many other factors are far overrated in many peoples opinions (but a great pleasure to the hobby) My opinion about the importance of geometry also leads to the necessity to be able to sharpen en deburr and strop your knives with the right tools and have some knowledge about that process..( different types of steels with different heat treats and edge angles need different geometry / sharpening approaches from a technical and application specific perspective). This knowledge makes it possible to have a lot of good usage out of a very cheap knife.
 
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kasumi said:
Next to performance due to steel and heat treat an even more important factor than those that determines knife performance is GEOMETRY. I pick a wallmart knife with a geometry that suits my needs over any custom made knife without that if it comes to performance….. many other factors are far overrated in many peoples opinions but a great pleasure to the hobby.
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Geometry won't get very far on its own without a concomitant (appropriate) heat treat of the steel of any particular flavor.

By way of example, I had a paring knife from Victorinox with a thin blade and grind. However, it turned out to have had a bad heat treat because it would not take nor hold an edge like its siblings from Victorinox I owned, nor its cousins from Opinel or Tramontina by way of example.

So yes, geometry is certainly a huge factor...but I'll take geometry along WITH a decent steel and an appropriate heat treat for the win.

Perhaps we shouldn't couch our opinions as absolutes...there are many very experienced users, (and makers), hereabouts.
 
Blues said:
Geometry won't get very far on its own without a concomitant (appropriate) heat treat of the steel of any particular flavor.

By way of example, I had a paring knife from Victorinox with a thin blade. However, it turned out to have had a bad heat treat because it would not take nor hold an edge like its siblings from Victorinox I owned, nor its cousins from Opinel or Tramontina by way of example.

So yes, geometry is certainly a huge factor...but I'll take geometry WITH a decent steel and an appropriate heat treat for the win.
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You are right. I did not say that Geometry is the only factor making a good knife . I only wanted to say that Geometry for me is the leading factor. Of course when all contributing factors to a good knife for you come together it is always better!

When the steel is in such bad condition as you describe only the waste bin remains as the last resort.🥴.

By the way ( speaking about Victorinox) I give to anyone on a tight budget who is asking me what kitchen knives I would suggest the Victorinox FIBROX serie. A good example of cheap good stuff if you do your part in the geometry/ sharpening/stropping area. Even a much better suggestion for many people than a 400 dollar Japanese “ high quality , high hardness” steel knife.
 
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This was a great read. Thanks to everyone involved. My perspective? I don't want a super hard edge that never needs to be resharpened. I want a balance between edge retention & toughness. Nothing else. I could not care less how stainless it is. My go-to steels are M4 for edge retention & good toughness & CPM-3V for outstanding toughness & a little less edge retention.
 
Ron Texas said:
On of the things I don't understand is the premium many knife collectors put on steels with extremely high wear resistance with very low toughness. Maybe the marketplace decided. Crucible went bankrupt and several of these alloys were discontinued. Maybe I'm one who feels good enough is just right.
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Which ones were discontinued?
 
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