I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

ltcray said:
I like the toughness rating of NioMax. Do you have any data on the edge holding? Has it hit the market yet?
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I believe there is edge retention data in the Patreon article about NioMax development. It is not on the market and there is no timeline for that.
 
What makes me confused is not knowledge on steels but sequential testing and lack of conclusion. We ( in Croatia) think different :-) For example if steel has great toughness, edge retention is low (but not bad, just low). Ease of sharpening is because of great toughness (softer steel) excellent. Edge retention needs more hardness not to be better than longer
witch means very hard resharpening. For cutting any material 50 Hrc is more than enough (with possibility to resharpen knife in few strokes). So why I need knife harder than 56- 58 Hrc? I really don't have answer. I used Ka bars (my favorite knives), Sogs (beloved), Cold Steels (profi), Spydercos (first Endura i carried during war in my country), Benchmades (still crying for sold Infidel), Fallkniven, Extrema ratios, Lionsteels, Bokers and many, many others with satisfaction. New steels are allways better but why not having Magnacut in 56 Hrc? I would love to resharpen them easy and I am sure that would be betteer, keen edge on them. Too hard knives are (in my opinion) for profs and only one job. Design of knife is equally important. German (Dick) cleaver is 56 Hrc but cuts greatest bones without damage. Obviously i am not collector.
 
With certain choices in the mix you can “sharpen when you want to and not because you have to.” This is a quote I got from Shawn Houston talking about his 15V knives that are around 65 hrc and for many ( cutting) purposes great . Also in Croatia😉. Since I EDC my Native 5 in 15V this quote applies 100%.
https://imgur.com/a/M2gtm0S

And with the currently available diamond based stones you can sharpen any steel blades in minutes by the way. (also available in Croatia .)
 
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patrickguignot said:
To avoid the so called "chipping" of the edge you need toughness.
To avoid the so called "rolling" of the edge you need hardness.
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I never in my life had chipping or rolling on knives 56- 58 Hrc.54-56 Hrc (aus6) tend to roll and 59-60 s35vn tend to chip but only if you cut something inpropriate. But.that was not my question. I want let say 58 Hrc Magnacut blade.I didn't see blades with that toughness. Do You know any?
 
kasumi said:
With certain choices in the mix you can “sharpen when you want to and not because you have to.” This is a quote I got from Shawn Houston talking about his 15V knives that are around 65 hrc and for many ( cutting) purposes great . Also in Croatia😉. Since I EDC my Native 5 in 15V this quote applies 100%.
https://imgur.com/a/M2gtm0S

And with the currently available diamond based stones you can sharpen any steel blades in minutes by the way. (also available in Croatia
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This man make knives for collectors. I am not but thanks!
 
“This man make knives for collectors. I am not but thanks!”

Haha… don’t let him read this as he will definitely not agree. ( and I won’t either)
Speaking about low hrc Magnacut, I believe knifemakers always seek especially for an allround steel like Magnacut for an optimum allround hardness. Where toughness, edge retention and corrosion resistance are best in the mix with Magnacut seems to be between 61 and 64 hrc. Not at 58. And chipping and rolling is not primarily a result of hardness . The type of steel, the heat treat and mainly the geometry play more dominant roles here. So I suggest not to make too much of a deal of hardness of blades you have , buy or look for . If you are after toughness in general you should concentrate on stuff like 3V for example. But also a 3V edge with the “wrong” geometry will not be stable . The cheapest 10 dollar knife with a good edge geometry will cut better and longer that an expensive knife with a “supersteel” but with a shitty geometry edge.
 
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zorandjurkic said:
What makes me confused is not knowledge on steels but sequential testing and lack of conclusion. We ( in Croatia) think different :-) For example if steel has great toughness, edge retention is low (but not bad, just low). Ease of sharpening is because of great toughness (softer steel) excellent. Edge retention needs more hardness not to be better than longer witch means very hard resharpening. [...]
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This is a common misconception which seems to be repeated endlessly.

Making a high hardness knife (I have one it CPM 10V at 64.5 HRC) does NOT make it hard to sharpen. In fact I can sharpen that one in under 5 min from completely dull to screaming sharp with no problem. The low hardness steels such as 1095 at 55 HRC or so can take a very long time to sharpen due to chasing the burr. A lot depends on geometry and heat treat. 1095 at 66 HRC or M2 at 65 HRC are a joy to sharpen and the edge is very durable. And the edge lasts a very long time when cutting fibrous materials such as hemp rope, animal hide, etc.
 
sodak said:
This is a common misconception which seems to be repeated endlessly.

Making a high hardness knife (I have one it CPM 10V at 64.5 HRC) does NOT make it hard to sharpen. In fact I can sharpen that one in under 5 min from completely dull to screaming sharp with no problem. The low hardness steels such as 1095 at 55 HRC or so can take a very long time to sharpen due to chasing the burr. A lot depends on geometry and heat treat. 1095 at 66 HRC or M2 at 65 HRC are a joy to sharpen and the edge is very durable. And the edge lasts a very long time when cutting fibrous materials such as hemp rope, animal hide, etc.
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I had ZDP Spyderco (Stretch carbon fiber) and You are right. Again, this knives are much more collectors items than tools. Extrema Ratio Col Moshin iz N690 on 58 and what you only need is honing rod. Blade is absolute razor with two to four strokes. Off course you need from time to time repeat honing if you cut often. I would love to have Magnacut because i know that sharpness would be last longer because of better steel. It's not necessary to be hareder. It would be prone to chiping and breaking. Look Fallkniven. Look Cold Steel VG10 San Mai. They chip much more often and its harder to resharpen it on 60Hrc. On 58 Hrc VG10 is still better steel than, let's say, AUS8. So, why not?
 
kasumi said:
“This man make knives for collectors. I am not but thanks!”

Haha… don’t let him read this as he will definitely not agree. ( and I won’t either)
Speaking about low hrc Magnacut, I believe knifemakers always seek especially for an allround steel like Magnacut for an optimum allround hardness. Where toughness, edge retention and corrosion resistance are best in the mix with Magnacut seems to be between 61 and 64 hrc. Not at 58. And chipping and rolling is not primarily a result of hardness . The type of steel, the heat treat and mainly the geometry play more dominant roles here. So I suggest not to make too much of a deal of hardness of blades you have , buy or look for . If you are after toughness in general you should concentrate on stuff like 3V for example. But also a 3V edge with the “wrong” geometry will not be stable . The cheapest 10 dollar knife with a good edge geometry will cut better and longer that an expensive knife with a “supersteel” but with a shitty geometry edge.
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I must agree over allmost everything. What I'm trying to say is that if you have something like SRK, Buck 119 or Sog Bowie in 15V this knife would be significantly better than in Aus8, Sk5 or VG10. You can't say that Buck 119 in 420hc and in Magnacut at 58 would be the same. Simply because Magnacut is way better steel (i supose). Off course that Magnacut on 62- 63 would have edge much longer but on 58 would be tougher (excuse for my english). So this is not somethin that should be "golden rule" but only my preference. I would pay for SRK in Mangacut same price if steel would be 58. If they make quenching and tempering right why not? I had 3V and sold it because it was to hard for me. Actually my all time favorite knife is Recon tanto (Ka bar tanto 8 inch as well). If they make it in S35VN on 60 that would be ok but 58 would be enough (again for me).
 
zorandjurkic said:
I must agree over allmost everything. What I'm trying to say is that if you have something like SRK, Buck 119 or Sog Bowie in 15V this knife would be significantly better than in Aus8, Sk5 or VG10. You can't say that Buck 119 in 420hc and in Magnacut at 58 would be the same. Simply because Magnacut is way better steel (i supose). Off course that Magnacut on 62- 63 would have edge much longer but on 58 would be tougher (excuse for my english). So this is not somethin that should be "golden rule" but only my preference. I would pay for SRK in Mangacut same price if steel would be 58. If they make quenching and tempering right why not? I had 3V and sold it because it was to hard for me. Actually my all time favorite knife is Recon tanto (Ka bar tanto 8 inch as well). If they make it in S35VN on 60 that would be ok but 58 would be enough (again for me).
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If the 3v felt too hard for you at 60HRC....

Maybe try A8mod @58-60?
It will still be Very tough.
Not terrible rusting.
Easier to sharpen.
Available in Europe.
 
Well…. i believe that the type of steel en hardness figures matters are well over complicated in many discussions. There is stainless and non stainless, there are high carbide and low carbide steels these 2 parameters are relevant when selecting steel for your knife. Together with a reliable and to the steel fitting heat treat and a good geometry meeting what YOU want to do with the knife makes the picture complete. That is all there is in my perspective. No need for 99 types of steel to put in the mix of these parameters to fulfill your needs. I believe that Magnacut , 15V, K390 , S90V/S110V / upcoming MagnaMax , 3V and some nice “kitchen knife steel” would probably be sufficient kinds of steel to cover 99.9% of all needs and tastes for cutting blades and you would not be able to tell the difference when you were given a more or less equivalent blade in the same ballpark as these. The holy grail of steels does not exist and probably never will. Always a compromise left or right but developments have come a long way in the past decade. But 1 thing never changes …..Geometry, geometry, geometry…..😉
 
kasumi said:
Well…. i believe that the type of steel en hardness figures matters are well over complicated in many discussions. There is stainless and non stainless, there are high carbide and low carbide steels these 2 parameters are relevant when selecting steel for your knife. Together with a reliable and to the steel fitting heat treat and a good geometry meeting what YOU want to do with the knife makes the picture complete. That is all there is in my perspective. No need for 99 types of steel to put in the mix of these parameters to fulfill your needs. I believe that Magnacut , 15V, K390 , S90V/S110V / upcoming MagnaMax , 3V and some nice “kitchen knife steel” would probably be sufficient kinds of steel to cover 99.9% of all needs and tastes for cutting blades and you would not be able to tell the difference when you were given a more or less equivalent blade in the same ballpark as these. The holy grail of steels does not exist and probably never will. Always a compromise left or right but developments have come a long way in the past decade. But 1 thing never changes …..Geometry, geometry, geometry…..😉
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Mora Companion has 10 degrees edge on 2mm blade tickness. Opinel has even better edge. I like them very much but Recon tanto and Magnum tanto are much suitable for camping and barbecue outdoors. For barbecue at home i use regular kitchen knives, Moras and Opinels. We been outdoors last weekend and this is dry beech for grill .
https://flic.kr/p/2rBoVFL
https://flic.kr/p/2rBjtTC
 
Crag the Brewer said:
If the 3v felt too hard for you at 60HRC....

Maybe try A8mod @58-60?
It will still be Very tough.
Not terrible rusting.
Easier to sharpen.
Available in Europe.
Click to expand...
I used A2 on 58Hrc (Bark River). It's excellent. 3V was too hard. CS Vg10 San mai too. I did not sharpen yet SK5. Best steel for resharpening on 59-61 Hrc for me is S35VN. Need electric sharpener but in minutes is razor sharp.
 
zorandjurkic said:
Mora Companion has 10 degrees edge on 2mm blade tickness. Opinel has even better edge. I like them very much but Recon tanto and Magnum tanto are much suitable for camping and barbecue outdoors. For barbecue at home i use regular kitchen knives, Moras and Opinels. We been outdoors last weekend and this is dry beech for grill .
https://flic.kr/p/2rBoVFL
https://flic.kr/p/2rBjtTC
Click to expand...
Indeed, no supersteels needed for super knives! As long as they are made well ( geometry ) and used for the right job!
 
zorandjurkic said:
Mora Companion has 10 degrees edge on 2mm blade tickness. Opinel has even better edge. I like them very much but Recon tanto and Magnum tanto are much suitable for camping and barbecue outdoors. For barbecue at home i use regular kitchen knives, Moras and Opinels. We been outdoors last weekend and this is dry beech for grill .
https://flic.kr/p/2rBoVFL
https://flic.kr/p/2rBjtTC
Click to expand...

How'd it taste?

Can't say I've ever eaten grilled wood before.
 
zorandjurkic said:
I used A2 on 58Hrc (Bark River). It's excellent. 3V was too hard. CS Vg10 San mai too. I did not sharpen yet SK5. Best steel for resharpening on 59-61 Hrc for me is S35VN. Need electric sharpener but in minutes is razor sharp.
Click to expand...
“ electric sharpener”? What device do you mean by that ?
 
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