I think we put WAY too much emphasis on alloys...

[Gator97]

That's interesting why they advocate 2 different versions. Perhaps their sharpener can only do one angle.
Anyway, my point was there is a huge difference in using thin and thick edged knives for many tasks, which is the same what you experienced
For blind testing that'd make sense.

 

[Ankerson]

That's interesting why they advocate 2 different versions. Perhaps their sharpener can only do one angle.
Anyway, my point was there is a huge difference in using thin and thick edged knives for many tasks, which is the same what you experienced
For blind testing that'd make sense.

That's possible.

I tend to sharpen my Kitchen knives at either 10 or 15 degrees per side.

 

[A_Blade_Afficionado]

Please read my above post:

I did, and I adressed it. No human can put the exact same level of sharpness on multiple blades of different steels. The test is a great hypothetical idea but impossible to implement effectively without any variables.

 

[DennisStrickland]

michaelncgo when you take such a declarative imperative you are going to stir the pot.i'm not here to argue facts but all these alloys which were developed at considerable expense certainly ca'nt be discounted as having small signficances. i'll leave the field to our engineers, geologists, chemists & metalluragists. incidentally 1095 has been brought up to 65 r.r. with only small increases in brittleness. sheck out Sniper bladeworks, i beleive that's correct, also Cotdt {formite} can supply info on high hardness 1095 if he is inclined.

 

[Ankerson]

I did, and I adressed it. No human can put the exact same level of sharpness on multiple blades of different steels. The test is a great hypothetical idea but impossible to implement effectively without any variables.

There would be less variables than the ave user would experience then throw in Myths, Misconceptions, Urban Legends and Hype.

Real life is one big variable.

One would have to do a ton of cutting to tell the difference in most steels.

Like cutting cardboard all day for 8 hours a day, you have to cut a lot of cardboard to really dull any of the better steels and I am not even talking about super steels.

 

[SteelSnob]

I like all kinds of steels myself. Including lower end steels like 440c and 13c26. Right now I'm digging my new D2 blade that's 61-62HRC.

 

[A_Blade_Afficionado]

So if steel is all the same why do you have a plug for INFI in your sig Ankerson?
If it's all the same then a Busse with 1095 would be the same as INFI and a Busse with S30V would be the same. Right?
So why use INFI when other steels are cheaper and perform the same?

 

[THG]

I did, and I adressed it. No human can put the exact same level of sharpness on multiple blades of different steels. The test is a great hypothetical idea but impossible to implement effectively without any variables.

Duh... Of course there are minor variations. By your logic, every experiment done in the history of science would be invalid, because NOTHING is exact per se. That's why in science, we work with uncertainties.

The best we can do is use a device for sharpening the knives. Something like the edge pro: put all the knives in the same spot for sharpening, and then sharpen them. And all you people use calipers for measuring "metal behind the edge" anyway, so those can be used to get all of them as close as possible to the desired angle. You can't tell me that 0.5° off or ±0.001 inches behind the edge difference is going to make a noticeable impression to a user.

 

[Ankerson]

So if steel is all the same why do you have a plug for INFI in your sig Ankerson?
If it's all the same then a Busse with 1095 would be the same as INFI and a Busse with S30V would be the same. Right?
So why use INFI when other steels are cheaper and perform the same?

That is my Hog name.

Show me a steel that can take a pounding like INFI and I will use it, but then I am NOT JOE AVE USER.

For folders that I have and use I have said many times that I really don't care what steel it is and I really don't for the most part.

 

[Ankerson]

CS Voyager Cutting Test.

[youtube]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/83KvcB6zcuQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/83KvcB6zcuQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

 

[Josh K]

Alright, let's gather together one of each of the Mules, grind the steel marking off of each one, and randomly assign specimen numbers. Then carry out the test and we'll put this dispute to rest forever

That wouldn't work. I know for a fact that several of the mules have different finishes on them, not to mention the ZDP mules had HT problems to begin with.

Nice idea though.

 

[THG]

That wouldn't work. I know for a fact that several of the mules have different finishes on them, not to mention the ZDP mules had HT problems to begin with.

Nice idea though.

The finish is going to make that much difference in EDGE holding, after each set of bevels has been sharpened to a specified angle?

Wow, there are so many things that could be done to get this thing to work, but it seems to be that everyone wants to put their heads in the sand. No one wants to actually test this and put it to rest. Everyone just wants to say, "The companies did the tests, and I believe them."

Whatever. I was a cynic since I was 5, taught to ask questions about everything. I have background in science and know better than to believe whatever anyone tells me. But I understand that not everyone is the same.

The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see. Business men, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it.

 

[gkrausmann]

CS Voyager Cutting Test.

[youtube]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/83KvcB6zcuQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/83KvcB6zcuQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Can you show me a knife that won't do that? And does the Post Office know what you are doing with their boxes?

 

[RevDevil]

CS Voyager Cutting Test.

[youtube]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/83KvcB6zcuQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/83KvcB6zcuQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Should be using that knife to remove that 1960s carpet, that would be a real test lol

 

[Josh K]

The finish is going to make that much difference in EDGE holding, after each set of bevels has been sharpened to a specified angle?

Wow, there are so many things that could be done to get this thing to work, but it seems to be that everyone wants to put their heads in the sand. No one wants to actually test this and put it to rest. Everyone just wants to say, "The companies did the tests, and I believe them."

Whatever. I was a cynic since I was 5, taught to ask questions about everything. I have background in science and know better than to believe whatever anyone tells me. But I understand that not everyone is the same.

No, not that. I meant you can tell the steels apart. I'll respond to the rest when I'm no posting on a three ince screen.

 

[gkrausmann]

Whether or not a manufacturer's claims for their new hyper-steel prove to be valid or not, I will try as many combinations of materials and designs as my budget will allow. For me, that is the fun of collecting. For what it's worth, poor ergonomics have disappointed me much more often than the steel.

 

[Ankerson]

Can you show me a knife that won't do that? And does the Post Office know what you are doing with their boxes?

Used box.

Have an AUS-8 video coming up very soon, same test.

Goes to show the point that it really doesn't matter what steel it is as long as it's heat treated properly and sharp.

Also that one would have to really do a lot of cutting to really see a noticeable difference in the steels, a lot more than most people do with their knives.

 

[Ankerson]

This is the 2nd Video.

That's AUS-8A steel......

[youtube]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yQaq-Ox0fRQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yQaq-Ox0fRQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

 

[THG]

No, not that. I meant you can tell the steels apart. I'll respond to the rest when I'm no posting on a three ince screen.

Oh, I get your point, then. Just to nitpick... It's still not a fatal flaw, though, as there are people like me who wouldn't know them by their finish (I've never seen a Mule in person before.)

Plus, it doesn't HAVE to be a Mule... There are many ways to do a test of this sort.

 

[Josh K]

The finish is going to make that much difference in EDGE holding, after each set of bevels has been sharpened to a specified angle?

Wow, there are so many things that could be done to get this thing to work, but it seems to be that everyone wants to put their heads in the sand. No one wants to actually test this and put it to rest. Everyone just wants to say, "The companies did the tests, and I believe them."

Whatever. I was a cynic since I was 5, taught to ask questions about everything. I have background in science and know better than to believe whatever anyone tells me. But I understand that not everyone is the same.

There are things that make it work, CATRA tests are one. It takes a specific slice of steel with the recommended heat treat and test it.

During a passaround the knives are all going to get sharpened differently. You can't stop that. Everyone is going to cut differently. You can't stop that. Not everyone (in fact most people) don't have the time it would take to appropriately see wear on the edge of some of the super-super steels like S90V.