i went and did a very bad thing...

Ravaillac said:
One thing about chinese knives quality. While many people complain about it, certainly with some reasons there's no law that chinese goods are and will be forever junk.
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The Chinese have been producing quality products for a long time. In the late 80's I saw aerospace parts produced in China. The quality was as good as or better than US made parts.

Parts and products will be produced to the specifications demanded by the vendor. Look at Spyderco's new Byrd line. The knives are very good. Much better than the $20 street price would suggest. However, $8 street price is too good to be true if it is a quality product. Caveat Emptor
 
Actually Jeff it is NOT "perfectly legal to purchase" as it is (my opinion) a product derived through and by the theft of intellectual property rights and the theft of a person's work product. In this case, the designer had agreed to provide the design for compensation and did so. Then said design was stolen and used to produce the exact knife as designed with zero compensation. If the designer had unlimited funds to confront this, the outcome would be that it is not "perfectly legal" to purchase this knife. (Again, my opinion)

But I am beating said dead horse. You are unchanged in your assertion that as long as you are not the victim, as long as you have no personal connection to the person aggrieved by the theft of his property, and as long as it is available for sale, it's "OK" to buy it.

I on the other hand believe that one's personal integrity should always guide one away from allowing the perpetrator to profit. I also want to believe my views represent the majority who participate on knife related forums.......
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Well I appreciate everyone that has called me nothing short of a thief.. Really if ya knew me you would know better.. I am not saying it is ok too loot, I am not saying it is ok to steal, .. I am not saying it is ok to buy stolen merchandise!.. I have more morals and integrity than most I have met..

But to Joe blow that is not on this forum and does not know any better .. Will not hesitate to buy one of these types of knives and will feel no remorse for his or her actions in doing so .. it is not like you have to go about purchasing it through some form of black market..

This company has been around way too long and too big of a business to not have a class action suit slapped on them if in fact this was a matter of design theft..And far too many claims in resemblance from Big time knife makers that would not hesitate to drag them to court and sue the hell out of them and stop this kind of thing from happening.. .. So until then it is just that, your "opinion"
 
jefff said:
This company has been around way too long and too big of a business to not have a class action suit slapped on them if in fact this was a matter of design theft. And far too many claims in resemblance from Big time knife makers that would not hesitate to drag them to court and sue the hell out of them and stop this kind of thing from happening.
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Your lack of knowledge concerning intellectual property law is apparent. I am no expert, but I do hire them. :D

Do you have any idea how much it would cost to sue a company in China? Who are the "Big time" knife makers you write about? Do you have any idea of the cost of a class action law suit? Just getting the case to court would cost more than 99% of all knifemakers make in a year!

You've been watching too much television! ;)
 
Makers like Tom Anderson, Kit Carson, Ernie Emerson, Tom Mayo, Ken Onion and Strider are counterfeited at astronomical rates with not one penny of compensation for their intellectual property or even their patents [Ernie's Wave and Ken's speed safe]. Sadly, they have very little recourse in getting huge Chinese knock-off manufacturers to pay for their use of their designs or to stop stealing their designs because of what is involved in suing them.

And, people will continue to pay this stuff because of attitudes such as yours.

** There are other Makers who are victims of the knock-off but I just named a few who spend time with us Knifeknuts here on these forums.........
 
wolfmann601 said:
Makers like Tom Anderson, Kit Carson, Ernie Emerson, Tom Mayo, Ken Onion and Strider are counterfeited at astronomical rates with not one penny of compensation for their intellectual property or even their patents [Ernie's Wave and Ken's speed safe]. Sadly, they have very little recourse in getting huge Chinese knock-off manufacturers to pay for their use of their designs or to stop stealing their designs because of what is involved in suing them.

And, people will continue to pay this stuff because of attitudes such as yours.

** There are other Makers who are victims of the knock-off but I just named a few who spend time with us Knifeknuts here on these forums.........
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Why get so excited about knocking off knives. Everything from watches to CD's and Dvd's get knocked off in those countries. Just remember that if those countries were so great we would not have the immigration problems we are having now, IMHO.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
He probably used it. Puukko's, even cheaper than $8 have excellent steel. If you check around at some of the imports you can find extreme prices, custom made huge bush knives forged out of spring steel for $50.

There is no maker in the US or Canada that would even consider forging a large blade like that for $50, however just because a US maker can't make a profit doesn't mean the steel is junk. The US isn't the whole world.

The cost of steel isn't the same everywhere, nor is labor, parts, etc. . The performance of rip offs isn't what prevents me from using them, it doesn't matter that it isn't one of my personal friends they are stealing from.

Excellent also means different things to different people, I know custom makers who consider 420HC to be an excellent steel for some things, other people describe it as junk.

-Cliff
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Cliff I really agree with you 100 %. Sometimes you write down a few words with wisdom.


plan no useless move, take no step in vain.

ishiyumisan
 
Blackhearted said:
... its not made of garbage steel.
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This is a pretty big misconception about this based on preconceptions mainly, with the blade tuned as you have, knock-offs likely out perform the origional blades in several aspects.

once you work on the CRKT AUS-4 chisel ground edges for long they start to roll over to the unsharpened side no matter how gently you apply the knife to the stone. it requires beveling the unsharpened edge ever so slightly to fix
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You mean lapping the blade flat doesn't help, you have to v-grind it?

...if you people are getting so riled up and thinking that this $8 chinese knife is such a huge threat to american made knives, good.
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This probably won't make you overly popular in any knife community. Those are stolen designs, and that isn't going to be appreciated by anyone who does such work, or is friends with those that do.

As noted in the above there are numerous reasons why you can't expect US made knives to compete with knockoffs in price, Vassili's post is a rather striking example.

-Cliff
 
You enjoy riling people? Then tell us about the $8.00 knock-off candy apple red Jimmy Choo pumps you're wearing.
 
So, can all those who critisize the "riping off " of a design put there hand on there heart and say they have never had a friend coppy a CD or have copied one for someone thus infringing coppyright legislation?
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Too many to count, and they all seem to be based in China or Pakistan.
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What about Ka-Bar, Camillus, Gerber, Schrade, ... Don't/Didn't they all have clones of the Buck 110 or am I mistaken. Then of course the liner lock, who came up with that, who came up with the thumbstud, the lockback, ah geez I dunno, just seems to be every company has ripped off every company. Spyderco has it's hole, were they the first? Now Benchmades have oval holes, Buck has a pill looking hole, Benchmade has the axis lock and Cold Steel has Ultralock. Balisongs, butterflys, spyderflys. I just don't know, nothing seems unique anymore.

I think I'm just in a bad mood. :foot:
 
nelsonmc said:
Then of course the liner lock, who came up with that ...
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Walker refined it into its current incarnation, you can find dual brass linerlocks on very old knives. Some people pay him when they use it, Spyderco does for example.

...the lockback
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Some of these are so old then the patents and trademarks who have had to have expired I would assume.

Spyderco has it's hole, were they the first?
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They claim so yes, and apparently have trademarked the round hole, others use various similar designs so as to avoid this conflict.

-Cliff
 
LOL! Some of the knives that are now often called 110 copies were being made before the Buck 110 was a gleam in Daddy's eye. That general design has been popular for a long time.
 
Lockbacks are atleast 220+ years old.

Thumb Studs are atleast 100+ years old, a Brit named Pellet came up with his "Pellet Lifts" in the late 1800's.

Liner locks are 80+ years old, a man named Watson patented it. The Walker type are 25-30.
 
Well you showed me, that's some mighty fine information there, thanks (and yes I mean it, why does everything I say sound sarcastic to me?).
 
Here I go, beating a quite dead horse.

My co-worker and I recieved our Mtech folding karambits about an hour ago and as promised I would do our own little review.

**Disclaimer** Author of this particular post will not get wrapped up in 95% of the discussion that has taken place in this here thread. This is just about this knife , not the goods , bads , copying designs and so forth.
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We were both suprised at one thing , heft. Having looked at some of thier knives online , I fully expected a hunk of poop and time will tell if I was right :cool: The little buggers are hefty ! and solid. The lockup is quite solid and not a bit of play in the blade. It does say 440 on the blade and will need a few minutes of sharpening to see how good that edge holds up. As Blackhearted said there is a neat little band of copper that shows thru the G10, kinda cool looking... After examining the knife , the parts almost look like some of the same ones from the kits they sell on Knifekits.com , and they very well could be since I am sure those kits are Chinese made. That being said , if my assumption is true , those little kits make pretty decent knives for the money. Keywords here folks "for the money". I think this thread got hosed when the comparisons were made to brand name "American" knives , so I'm not going to go there.
The Karambit seems to be fully able of disassembly if you desired and tonight after I get home , I shall desire , I want to see whats what ;)
As Blackhearted also said , I think a couple hours of tinkering can put some finish on this bad bear.

Ok , we managed to scrape up a mid Arkansas stone from the shop , so now we will try to see what that can do , by the way sorry no pics , you'll just to have to use your imagination.

Ok after a quick sharpening to just about shaving sharpness (not too easy on that cuvred Karambit style blade) we went thru boxes and cardboard until the blade got pretty warm from friction , it kept on cutting. After that it still cut paper with no jagged paper edge , but wouldnt do arm hair without more force than I'm willing to use on my poor , abused arm. Will it cut all day and night with no complaints ? I think so , I would stack it up to a 'low end' name brand knife I think.
F&F ? Pretty darn nice for the price. No silly chrome parts (thank God) no plastic being called G10 , this seems to be the real stuff. After a thorough lookover I dont think it is 'junk' steel , but it sure isnt Talonite ! lol
The ambidextrous thumbstuds were a nice touch , leave it to the Chinese to realize not all of us Earthers are frikin Right handers. With a little work the pocketclip could be tapped for the other side if you were so inclined.

Ok so bottom line here is , for the money it is not a bad knife at all and I cant believe I am saying that , being in disdain for a long time with other mass produced knives from certain parts of the globe. This would make a cool looking "tactical" knife for work , cutting boxes and the like.
 
LaBella said:
Moteng sucks!!!!!:thumbdn:

*edited* for a friend.
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This is why your boss is having to pay back the $5 grand he stole from Tony Marfione. :foot:

Tell him how worth it was the next time you want to drag him into it again.

Imagine how far a guy with nothing to lose will pursue this if you keep after him.

Ron, you really need to stop. We all want this to go away but you and your retarded Star Wars way of looking at the world won't let it end. Stop the unwarranted attacks and I won't publish a webpage detailing why your boss is paying back the $5 grand.

Maybe some day you will get that I can not be intimidated by punks like you. Your post is almost a year after all the BS and yet you can't stop... you are pathological. I would've forgotten about you homos months ago if you would let me. But having to explain this nonsense to execs at Moteng about your retarded ass just continues the saga...

Your boss Bob is even trying to blame his lie on you which makes it even better! :thumbup: He can threaten to sue me too but one thing I learned in law school was that the truth is a perfect defense for any lawsuit of the sort he would like to file so F him.

Keep up the crap, I would love to detail it all out on a webpage and laugh as the hits came... this is juicy gossip in the knife world and despite the threats of lawsuits, it's cool because I have a lawyer on retainer and he ain't no P.O. Box lawyer, :p

And try to stop copying my website so hard, loser. :)
 
P.S. For legal reasons I would like to make it clear that any and all facts pertaining to the theft of property from Microtech by Robert Bartoli were furnished to me directly by Robert Bartoli and no one else. I have indicated that I will testify to this in court.

I wouldn't open myself up to a libel lawsuit unless I knew it was the truth. Sue me for the truth, I dare ya. :p
 
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