i went and did a very bad thing...

Keith Montgomery said:
It is impossible for an $8.00 knife to have excellent steel.
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I agree, because most stainless steels are $10.00 a foot and higher. If bought in large quanities it maybe slightly cheaper but not by much. Add in labor cost, other material costs and distribution cost and that $8.00 POS knife would bring no profit, so as far as I'm concerned they are pure JUNK .
Scott
 
jefff said:
This is the real world and the bottom line to people that really don't live and breath knives is price and quality .. ethics or not.. .. as long as it is for sale on a public market then it must be ok ..
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In other words, the mere fact that something is being sold constitutes a moral justification for selling it? What the hell kind of reasoning is that? By that standard, you could justify slavery, drug trafficking, whatever. The fact that your wallet is more important to you than your ethics does not justify theft.
 
jefff said:
Man you some of you guys sure know how to twist words around... :D

This is the real world and the bottom line to people that really don't live and breath knives is price and quality .. ethics or not.. .. as long as it is for sale on a public market then it must be ok .. That is what it is telling me..
I am not saying it is ok that someone supposedly stole a design .. I am telling you though it is not my design and it is not my problem.. I am not in no way condoning actual theft..

I bet if one of your buddies were selling gas out of his garage for a buck fifty you would be right in line along with everyone else waiting to fill up.. .. even though there is no way that he could be refining gas and it had to come from somewhere.. This is life.. and if you don't relize it then it is time to open your eyes..

Do you really think these little rip off companies are really effecting the makers? I mean heck before I came to this site .. I had no idea what the best knife was (still not sure, between sebbie's and strider) and had a very limited knowledge of all the differnt high end makers.. I had heard of spyderco and benchmade.. but in real life when someone buys one of these knives I think there real intrest is saveing a few bucks on a cool looking knife.. and really could care less about whos design it was or if it is a copy..
Click to expand...

What does selling gas at $1.50 a gallon have to do with this unless you insinuate it's stolen gas. I look at friendship as a relationship based on trust, integrity, loyalt, and honesty. I would not be friends with someone selling stolen anything.

And buying a $400 knife is not an integrity issue, it's a consumer issue. If the maker/seller/maunfacturer is honest and accurate in his/her description of how it was made and the materials used, theof integrity has been answered.

That Mtech knife was designed by a man not compensated. that's wrong
 
Chuck Bybee said:
Please clarify what you mean.
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I don't think he can Chuck...trying to rationalize (insinuation is how dare a maker want $400 for a knife--equals stealing) his way out of a wet paper bag and can't :barf:

Those of you that condone such b.s. in this thread sicken me.
 
jefff said:

"Man you some of you guys sure know how to twist words around... :D "

Yes, quoting YOU sure twists things a lot. :confused:
 
kerambit is design is to kill not less not more.
I mean if you have to kill same Pig,
after will be smart
to throw away the knife do you....?
but I guess not a Custom knife....?
$200-1000vs$20-100?
who mind really
make sure that works
and you are just fine
maybe funny people ....
don't do that with expensive knife?
make sure that works
make sure that works
make sure that works

plan no useless move, take no step in vain.

ishiyumisan
 
You forgot:

Never use design of man without acknowledgement
Make sure blade is made of steel
And not steel looking metal of some kind
Never throw away any knife, have a contest
Have integrity, pay the designer
Have integrity, pay the designer
Have integrity, pay the designer
Have integrity, pay the designer
 
Chuck Bybee said:
On what data do you base your information?
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He probably used it. Puukko's, even cheaper than $8 have excellent steel. If you check around at some of the imports you can find extreme prices, custom made huge bush knives forged out of spring steel for $50.

There is no maker in the US or Canada that would even consider forging a large blade like that for $50, however just because a US maker can't make a profit doesn't mean the steel is junk. The US isn't the whole world.

The cost of steel isn't the same everywhere, nor is labor, parts, etc. . The performance of rip offs isn't what prevents me from using them, it doesn't matter that it isn't one of my personal friends they are stealing from.

Excellent also means different things to different people, I know custom makers who consider 420HC to be an excellent steel for some things, other people describe it as junk.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
I know custom makers who consider 420HC to be an excellent steel for some things, whereas other people describe it as junk.

-Cliff
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Please tell us who they are -- and did they really go so far as to call it "excellent?"
 
Phil Wilson considers it an excellent steel for kitchen knives, it has a very high level of corrosion resistance and very nice ductility and toughness which keeps the edge very durable and with regular steeling will not require honing for a lot time. He also uses lots of other steels, makes kitchen knives out of S90V at 63 HRC even, but appreciates what 420HC at ~55 HRC has to offer. On the flip side there are lots of custom makers who will disregard steels like S30V harshly. It depends on what you are looking for, no steel can satisify everyone.

-Cliff
 
harpers ferry said:
its immoral to charge $8 for a knife but perfectly fine to charge $400????????
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Yes it is, as long as the design is not stolen and the knives are not being made forced or slave/semi slave labour. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to pay $400.00 for a knife.

It is also not immoral to charge $8.00 for a knife. It is immoral and unethical to steal the design for that knife, or to have it made by forced or slave/semi slave labour.
 
KeithAM said:
You used the plural "makers." Who are the others?
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A few years back I discussed steels with a traditional knifemaker who used mild steel and even Al alloys as knife blades, a hardened and tempered 420HC knife would be extreme in comparison. Just consider the steels commonly used in many working knives outside NA.

Or consider for example Randall's use of 440B, how many custom makers will gauge this as an excellent high end steel, yet Randall praises it very highly. Phil even runs his 420HC harder than Randall runs their 440B.

Roman Landes for example has praised 440A as an excellent knife steel, and favored it over S30V in regards to several aspects. Again not everyone needs the same properties so what means excellent to one won't mean it to another.

Lots of people will praise S30V as an excellent steel for small utility knives, go on rec.knives and ask Alvin Johnson about his opinion, he won't speak favorably about it or any stainless in regards to "excellent".

-Cliff
 
Quality control,

I was given an Indian Market special that, apart from fine finish, served me well for years. When it was stolen several years later I bought another from the same source. The replacement was sharp on purchase but after 3rd resharpening it just wouldn't get an edge.

The junkers come in with the first edition nice and working, and below cost, create a wow value market entry. But to maintain that cost subsequent knives have lowered standards to the point that getting a really good one is 1% and represents a failing on the behalf of the shortcuts.

If you use it around the house then it is very good value. If it fails in the wilderness the cost would be too high.
 
In my opinion, many people have missed the point of Blackhearted's thread. He was just trying to make the point, that someone can find use and enjoyment out of a "cheaper" knife. The man has the right to purchase and even enjoy a "cheaper" knife without being hung for it. In the end it comes down to each there own. I was once given the advice to leave politics and religion out of conversation. I think it applies to this thread.
 
Ira, you're correct of course. The majority of folks here are of course as good as always and wouldnt buy clones, regardless of price.
 
jefff said:

"Man you some of you guys sure know how to twist words around... "

Yes, quoting YOU sure twists things a lot.
Click to expand...

lol ok well I am not here trying to change anyones mind or force my opinion on to you .. and <<<I AM NOT SAYING WHAT WAS DONE IS OK>>> if it was in fact a theft of some makers design.. but until it is not for sale to the general public it is perfectly legal to purchase..

This is not even about what I think.. I am just trying to say you guys shouldn't bite his head off if he is happy with his purchase.. or mine or your neighbors.. It is there money they can buy what ever they like....

I do see your point.. but does it really matter on such a low scale? the people that know the difference of a junk knife and a real knife are not going to be placing there orders for some crap.. but if he is saying to you that it is a great quality knife much better than the higher end ones.. Why are you getting all pissy about it? because it looks like someone else's knife? I mean come on .. there are only a few ways to make a krabmit knife look different..

I mean I play guitar and there are only so many cords.. so what I play the same cord as a popular song and I have stolen the design? that is nonsense.. now.. If it is the exact song with same drum beat and words.. then there is a ethics problem.. and I would get sued.. but you would not hear the song..

ahh forget it.. I really don't care anymore :D it is like trying to talk to the wall.. hehe

I am glad he is happy with his knife and glad it turned out to be a good purchase..
~Jeff
 
I really cant belive this thread is still being posted to ! :D but here I am contributing to it.
The day blackhearted posted this , my co-worker and I were reading it , out of curiosity he bought two off of ebay , one for each of us (a hellofaguy).
We're both curious as to how this cheap little thing holds up to some abuse.
It will be stabbing sheet metal file cabinets and cutting cardboard , maybe even thrown into a wall or two if it has decent balance.
Will post the results.
 
I own an M-Tech folder (not a knock-off). It came very sharp, the coating is reasonably durable, the scales are G-10 and overall fit and finish is acceptable. But it has the worst liner lock I've ever seen and therefore it's practically useless.
Even a slipjoint would be a better working knife due to its spring holding the blade open. And since slipjoints are optimized for light cutting while the M-Tech folder is a tactical design, the M-Tech would not even be a good choice for tasks that do not require a lock.

If you want a cheap quality knife, an Opinel will serve you infinitely better than that M-Tech - even though the latter looks much cooler.
 
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