If a knife is very expensive you will choose to buy fake?

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while i can add, my extensive back ground in steel. the science of such ... i bow out ... ask this be closed.

thank you! as a newbie please throw all the darts you like at my new exo-skellton (spawn)

while it hardens, i am easy prey.

ok, if you buy a fake too try it's ok IMHO, if you buy a fakes to keep it/them - looser- period!!! as i stated, blame those who funded the factories - once built, now they are free too spit out any fake.

I would guess, soon the fakes will be chit steel, but with a $500 brand name on them and price too match - a FAKE!!!

who will know the difference? i carry a hand make jesse davis and use a D2 custom (omg foriegn axe) full tang mark antony (joice is very nice), ebony, FULLY engraved and very low price - IMHO.

I have 6 fighters (those i rotate all are $300+), it is rare too carry all american made - i carry almost all foriegn made folders and beat and throw them - i go through 10 or more a year. i give them away. I do carry 2-3 on me - jacket right and left side. right is the deploy knife.

i think you need balance i have 100 custom made american knives, 50 or less pakies, 25 or less or else where or unknown (mark antony - ya i like their stuff) and constantly repenish my supply of brand name folders. i.e. rat1, greco folder, leeks 3, sandman's 2, ZT, and many more. folders are 100 most are cheap too toss

so in the end balance is key, if your into this forum you should own american made knives if your usa - person then your magority in dollars should be usa - imho.

if your from another country you should own a lot your counties knives and tell us.

as i stated, i joined this forum too thank you for all the good info. good info means testing a lot of stuff foriegn and your home

but as i stated many times, i will not trust china steel - i draw the line. chian assembles np, i tighten add lock time, but steel? no way

ok ban me from this thread in case i forget.
so i will not post again in it.
close it tomorrow.
 
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Such a controversial question. Here's my answer to your question: No one in this forum will admit to supporting fakes.
 
Such an admission is pretty much the kiss of death around here, all right. Hell, I'm probably already a pariah in the minds of some having admitted that I'd even consider purchasing one. But wouldn't you love to know how many people who visit BF actually own counterfeit and replica knives? I know I would. And I wouldn't be surprised if their numbers are far greater than a lot of folks suspect . . .
 
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楼主，你这贴居然跟了11页，真心亮瞎了
都看懂了没？ 嘿嘿

I had a counterfeit cold steel 26S,then abused it.
That felt good.....LOL
 
LOL. I've faced times when the truth was REALLY hard to take . . . especially if I was already invested in a result that denied it.
 
So much ado about so little. Only knife freaks:

1. Are aware that CRK, Hinderer, Strider, etc. knives exist
2. Willing to pay well beyond the utility value of a knife and spend $400-$1000 for these luxury products

Unlike buying a fake Rolex or a counterfeit purse that every other woman can identify on sight, I have a hard time imagining many intentionally buying a counterfeit/fake knife (e.g. logo and trade dress marks replicated)--who the hell would it even impress? I usually carry reasonably nice knives, and in my life I can count the times I've ran into another knife nut at random (e.g. outside of a knife show) on the fingers of one hand.

Someone who wants one of these knives isn't buying it because it functions better than a solid production knife that costs much less (e.g. IMO, none of these knives significantly outperform a Spyderco Military or a Benchmade 710 when considered for their ability to, uh, cut stuff). They're buying it because it's rare and expensive and special and that makes them feel good. I'm not dogging that, I do it myself. But let's not kid ourselves into believing that someone is going to want a Sebenza, a luxury item for luxury's sake, is going to find themselves on ebay going "oh wow, this counterfeit Sebenza is only $150 and it's just as good, I'll buy that".

Seriously, who the hell believes that CRK, Hinderer, Strider, etc. are having trouble selling their products related to this stuff? Have you run into vast supplies of these items, being discounted heavily to get them moving off the shelves? People who buy these knives can easily avoid the other possible issue, being scammed by an evil seller, by just buying only from reputable vendors. Don't want to accidentally get scammed into buying a fake? Buy from a BF sponsor that has a track record of being a solid retailer. It's not tricky.

IMO, the whole thing is much ado about nothing. Should Chinese companies stop producing counterfeit goods? Yes, in a perfect world they'd quit that. In reality, they won't, and no amount of tiny niche community hand-wringing over the issue will make it go away.

Don't even get me started on the clone-but-not-outright-counterfeit knives. They're even less of a problem. That's like saying that Mercedes had trouble selling CLS sedans for $85k because VW restyled their Passat to look kind of like a cheap CLS and then sold it for $30k. Oh, wait, we can't hate on them doing that because they're both German companies. What about Hyundai then restyling their Sonata to look like the CC? Korea is in Asia, so that's kind of like China, right? Or how about the whole Matrix vs 0777 thing? Kind of inconvenient that Microtech is an American company, because if they were Chinese they'd be so evil, wouldn't they?

I think that counterfeits are evil, and people who buy them intentionally suck, but I don't believe they're actually causing much if any harm to the top makers that are targeted. Would I buy one? No.

I think that copies are part of the history of knives in general, and occupy a much less black and white space. Would I feel comfortable being in that business? No. Would I buy those knives, though? Sure, depending on the circumstances. For entertainment's sake, to see what they were about I ordered a small pile of SRM/Bee/Enlan knives to screw around with and I don't have any guilt about it. It's not like buying those knives stopped me from buying any "real" knives instead. I could do the same with a Kevin John knife without feeling bad, depending on the circumstances.

I suppose I shouldn't admit this when the hivemind is clearly in disagreement, but screw it, there you go.
 
evilgreg said:
So much ado about so little.

Don't even get me started on the clone-but-not-outright-counterfeit knives. They're even less of a problem. That's like saying that Mercedes had trouble selling CLS sedans for $85k because VW restyled their Passat to look kind of like a cheap CLS and then sold it for $30k. Oh, wait, we can't hate on them doing that because they're both German companies. What about Hyundai then restyling their Sonata to look like the CC? Korea is in Asia, so that's kind of like China, right? Or how about the whole Matrix vs 0777 thing? Kind of inconvenient that Microtech is an American company, because if they were Chinese they'd be so evil, wouldn't they?

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I'm sure if you look to car enthusiasts they're none too pleased about "homage" automobiles either regardless of country of origin... Whether it is watch enthusiasts, knife collectors, art collectors etc. fakes/homages/replicas are a danger to each respective hobby as they water down the hobby in general. I also believe many newcomers to the knife/watch hobby are at greater risk of being scammed due to fake items being circulated. It's probably less of a risk with auto's as that's something you'd typically buy in person. :)

I fell prey to unintentionally purchasing a fake folding knife when I started collecting and never was able to recoup the $200.00 it cost me. How do you think that made me feel about the knife hobby in general? After that I was hesistant for years to buy anything over the $50.00 mark for fear of losing any more hard earned dollars on something that is a lie.

Microtech has caught flak for the 0777 debacle and still does receive negative feedback in the knife community from what I've seen.
Sog blatantly copied the Spyderco Endura 4 and many have dismissed SOG for that. Benchmade stole the "hole" didn't they with the Vex model?...

Fakes, homages, replicas and outright copies are :thumbdn::thumbdn::thumbdn: and I'd never knowlingly buy one or recommend one to someone looking to "try out the design"... IMHO, anyone buying a fake watch, purse, knife etc. is just lying to themselves about their lack of funds and trying to live vicariously through the counterfeit item. :cool:

Keepin it "real",
Czech
 
Czechmate said:
. . . fakes/homages/replicas are a danger to each respective hobby . . .
Click to expand...

or a tribute to it. Of course you have to be careful if you know fakes/homages/replicas exist. The way to accomplish that has already been discussed in this thread. But my suspicion is that more people start with fakes and graduate to originals than the other way around. And to that extent, those who make counterfeits may actually be doing the hobby a service. How about THEM apples? ;)
 
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evilgreg said:
So much ado about so little. Only knife freaks:

1. Are aware that CRK, Hinderer, Strider, etc. knives exist
2. Willing to pay well beyond the utility value of a knife and spend $400-$1000 for these luxury products

Unlike buying a fake Rolex or a counterfeit purse that every other woman can identify on sight, I have a hard time imagining many intentionally buying a counterfeit/fake knife (e.g. logo and trade dress marks replicated)--who the hell would it even impress? I usually carry reasonably nice knives, and in my life I can count the times I've ran into another knife nut at random (e.g. outside of a knife show) on the fingers of one hand.
Click to expand...


Good points there.

Out in the real world for the most part nobody would even know what the knives were or if they were fakes or real.

I can't remember the last time I ran into someone who was into knives.

All of the knives I typically have seen people use have been gas station knives or some other cheap junk.
 
J-7 ，made in china, one of the best LWF in the world before 2000.
Very close to and even equal in some aspects with F16.
A "copy" and improved version on basis of MIG-21 Fishbed the russian fighter.
You can hardly tell differences between J-7 and Fishbed in profile if you are not an enthusiast on military.

568056_877373.jpg
 
Ankerson said:
Good points there.

Out in the real world for the most part nobody would even know what the knives were or if they were fakes or real.

I can't remember the last time I ran into someone who was into knives.

All of the knives I typically have seen people use have been gas station knives or some other cheap junk.
Click to expand...

Which makes this whole thing that much more insidious. A majority of the "uneducated" will buy these things thinking they are getting a "deal" on the "real" product. When it fails or doesn't meet expectation, it isn't the counterfeiters that get the blame. The real company gets the smudge on it's record even though the product isn't really theirs. Or when someone tries to turn in a warranty request only to get turned down by the company because the product isn't theirs and then the customer blames them for that also.
Imagine what will happen if the copies become so good that companies can't tell and start warranting product they never made. How long does anyone think they could sustain that before they go out of business.

The whole point of these clones is to steal revenue from the original companies and divert it to mainland china.
 
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waterbeef said:
J-7 ，made in china, one of the best LWF in the world before 2000.
Very close to and even equal in some aspects with F16.
A "copy" and improved version on basis of MIG-21 Fishbed the russian fighter.
You can hardly tell differences between J-7 and Fishbed in profile if you are not an enthusiast on military.
Click to expand...

And the price...LOL

I have got lots of similar examples to share with you if you have interests.
 
Karda said:
Which makes this whole thing that much more insidious. A majority of the "uneducated" will buy these things thinking they are getting a "deal" on the "real" product. When it fails or doesn't meet expectation, it isn't the counterfeiters that get the blame. The real company gets the smudge on it's record even though the product isn't really theirs.
Click to expand...


Don't know how they would think or even know what the real companies were in the 1st place if they bought some knife for $2 - $8 at a flea market or gas station when if they really thought about it or did a 1 minute search on the internet they could find the real ones and what better knives cost. That's even if they had a computer or even had a clue how to even use one.... Or could even order anything off the internet in the 1st place because they don't have a checking account or a credit card...

For the most part people that buy that junk aren't even interested in much other than how cheap they are and doubt they would even pay $40 for a knife because they could buy a lot of beer for that $40.....

And I see a lot of those types everyday in real life and believe me when I say their interests aren't knives, it's more about going out and getting drunk or whatever else they do.... The highlight of their week is going to the bar and getting drunk....

That is what I typically see day in and day out..... Dressed in shorts and flip flops pushing their cart filled with a few cases of beer, some hot dogs and Ramon noodles.

Hardly someone who would even know what a CRK was and wouldn't know even if they did see one, and even less likely to ever buy one....

Getting drunk, watching wrestling on TV and shopping at wally world is their life and maybe if they have a job it's some part time dead end job at best...

And if they have a baby moma or are married they have kids and are on food stamps and WIC and have to have money for their payday trip to the nail salon......

One can always tell when the money comes out, and you wouldn't even need a calendar to tell what day it was or time of the month.....

All of that is what I am used to seeing.......
 
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waterbeef said:
J-7 ，made in china, one of the best LWF in the world before 2000.
Very close to and even equal in some aspects with F16.
A "copy" and improved version on basis of MIG-21 Fishbed the russian fighter.
You can hardly tell differences between J-7 and Fishbed in profile if you are not an enthusiast on military.

568056_877373.jpg
Click to expand...
Keep dreaming,we call it the flying coffin!
[video=youtube;adYMZghZswI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adYMZghZswI[/video]
 
bld522 said:
or a tribute to it. Of course you have to be careful if you know fakes/homages/replicas exist. The way to accomplish that has already been discussed in this thread. But my suspicion is that more people start with fakes and graduate to originals than the other way around. And to that extent, those who make counterfeits may actually be doing the hobby a service. How about THEM apples? ;)
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bld522, I'm merely writing my opinion as well as from my personal experience.

When I was a noob to the knife collecting hobby I had no idea Bladeforums existed as a resource to i.d fakes and prevent making a bad buying decision, just that I wanted a nice knife. So, I put trust in Ebay (because I'd heard many folks buy knives from there. I know now that was the wrong thing to do.) and a seller's 100% feedback. Here's the thing though, he wasn't a knife expert either but had pictures of the real deal on his listing. Whether it was intentional misrepresentation or a legitimate case of him not knowing it was a fake how would I have avoided failure aside from if there were no counterfeit knives in existence to be sold?

I think it's rare that anyone enters a hobby as an expert knowing every nuance about the item they're trying acquire (eg. identify a fake) as well as about how to weed out scammers, counterfeits and theives during the buying process. I dove into the transaction with both feet and hit bottom so to speak and got burned. (or is it soaked?...) :o


I suppose you could look at it through a positive lense but I still stand by this point I made earlier:

IMHO, anyone buying a fake watch, purse, knife etc. is just lying to themselves about their lack of funds and trying to live vicariously through the counterfeit item.

A quick look on Ebay now reveals far too many counterfeit knives with legitimate company branding being used illegally. I've seen Spydies, Rocksteads, CRKS, as well as many other legit brands that newcomers entering the hobby are at risk of being fooled into buying. All because they heard a brand name mentioned and they go and buy what they think is the real deal for $XXXX amount only to later learn they were ripped off... :thumbdn:
 
bld522 said:
or a tribute to it. Of course you have to be careful if you know fakes/homages/replicas exist. The way to accomplish that has already been discussed in this thread. But my suspicion is that more people start with fakes and graduate to originals than the other way around. And to that extent, those who make counterfeits may actually be doing the hobby a service. How about THEM apples? ;)
Click to expand...

Actually, I think this may happen more than any actual revenue loss for the top makers. I say this as someone who is currently seeking expensive customs of which I already own cheaper mass produced versions.

My Spyderco Southard is a completely licensed and approved knife, but that hasn't stopped me from wanting a Brad Southard custom that doesn't have the silly hole in the blade. My Boker Kwaiken has me looking for an actual Lucas Burnley (and even better than the Kwaiken I already love, he actually made some flipper versions too). I still have a hard time imagining anyone who wants a Hinderer would really be satisfied with a $150 knockoff, but I wonder if even if they did buy one if it wouldn't just make them want the real thing even more?
 
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