If a knife is very expensive you will choose to buy fake?

[PURPLEDC]

And to an earlier poster: most people who own both a ZT 0560 and an XM-24 will assess the XM to be a higher quality product.

Yes some will. But some wont either. Some people are very influenced mentally by their own spending habits. Just like i dont want to admit that the K.O. Titanium knife I bought from china is a totaly piece of crap (which it is. There is no debate) I find many people who purchase high dollar goods will let the price of an object influence their perception of quality as a means of justification. Because really who wants to admit that they spent an extra $500 for a product of equal quality. IMHO many who own a genuine hinderer make excuses for the knife as being the image of perfection simply because it hurts to much to accept otherwise. Some hinderers flip like crap. Some have weak detents others have decent detents. If quality is consistency then it would appear Hinderer knives lack it in some regards. And while many claim them to be worth every penny Ive seen quite a few comments in which people dont feel they are not worth the price of admission. The line of what is true quality differences and what is perception and opinion are very blurred when you add human emotion to the equation. I just dont feel everyone have the same ability to be brutally honest with themselves. And with these opinions on Hinderers being as diverse as they are I cant say that hinderer knives being of higher quality than a zt to be a fact. Because even I dont want to say that my lexus probably aint that much better than a toyota camry.

 

[bld522]

If you have the money to buy the real deal, why waste extra money on a fake in advance?

Because maybe you're not sold on the real deal and you'd like to take something close to it on a test drive before you make a commitment to buy the real deal? And because if you really like it, you may want to buy the real deal, put it up, and beat on the fake?

Come on guys. Try thinking outside the box if you can.

 

[steff27]

Consciously buying a fake knife is just screaming "I can't afford the real one and I hate myself for it", considering that companies with good ethics like Victorinox and Opinel sell original, high quality knives nobody needs to be ashamed of at a price affordable for anybody.

 

[bld522]

Consciously buying a fake knife is just screaming "I can't afford the real one and I hate myself for it" . . .

No. That's what would happen if YOU bought a fake knife, not what would happen if I bought a fake knife.

 

[Czechmate]

Because maybe you're not sold on the real deal and you'd like to take something close to it on a test drive before you make a commitment to buy the real deal? And because if you really like it, you may want to buy the real deal, put it up, and beat on the fake?

Come on guys. Try thinking outside the box if you can.

Fine, there is no box. There are some overarching themes present here that don't need to be repeated. If you have the money to buy the real deal and still choose to buy a fake that is dumb. It really doesn't make sense at all as the fake does not give any sort of real representation of what the real deal will actually be like.

No. That's what would happen if YOU bought a fake knife, not what would happen if I bought a fake knife.

I wouldn't buy a fake knife so I'd never encounter that problem nor have to concoct a reality that would help to justify purchasing counterfeit goods in general.

 

[evilgreg]

That's pretty funny, even by Canadian "Whine about the F35 Project and cling bitterly to the old CF18s" Standards.

Oh, DM, I agree with you so often but I have to point out that you can't talk about Canadians clinging to a military air platform without making a jab about the Avro Arrow, it's just poor form and a terrible missed opportunity. Sixty years later and there was a proposal (albeit one that got shot down by the Canadian government) to bring the Arrow back to life.

 

[steff27]

No. That's what would happen if YOU bought a fake knife, not what would happen if I bought a fake knife.

Well, I should have said that that's the message I get when I see someone showing of a fake knife, designer purse, whatever. But I'm probably not the only one.

 

[bld522]

If you have the money to buy the real deal and still choose to buy a fake that is dumb. It really doesn't make sense at all as the fake does not give any sort of real representation of what the real deal will actually be like.

No. It would be dumb if YOU did that, not if I did that. And unless you've purchased a fake and compared it to the real deal, your estimation of how close it comes is vacuous.

 

[evilgreg]

Because maybe you're not sold on the real deal and you'd like to take something close to it on a test drive before you make a commitment to buy the real deal? And because if you really like it, you may want to buy the real deal, put it up, and beat on the fake?

Come on guys. Try thinking outside the box if you can.

Seriously, there are plenty of other possible reasons, some terrifically obvious. For example: what if you wanted to buy a model that isn't being produced by the manufacturer any more, and wasn't common on the secondary market? What if you just couldn't find a Strider PT to buy, and Strider wasn't selling them any more? The Kevin John version is quite nice, and easily available all the time.

 

[bld522]

Well, I should have said that that's the message I get when I see someone showing of a fake knife. . .

Only problem is, that someone wouldn't ever be me!

 

[bld522]

Seriously, there are plenty of other possible reasons, some terrifically obvious. For example: what if you wanted to buy a model that isn't being produced by the manufacturer any more, and wasn't common on the secondary market? What if you just couldn't find a Strider PT to buy, and Strider wasn't selling them any more?

Or what if you're thinking about purchasing an absurdly overpriced knife that no American manufacturer is emulating or planning to emulate and you wouldn't dream of paying the premium for it without taking something far less expensive but reasonably close to it for a test drive? That would certainly be a stupid thing to do, wouldn't it?

 

[evilgreg]

Or what if you're thinking about purchasing an absurdly overpriced knife that no American manufacturer is emulating or planning to emulate and you don't want to pay the premium for the original without taking something far less expensive but reasonably close to it for a test drive?

Good point--I'm not into Hinderers, though

 

[Ankerson]

Consciously buying a fake knife is just screaming "I can't afford the real one and I hate myself for it", considering that companies with good ethics like Victorinox and Opinel sell original, high quality knives nobody needs to be ashamed of at a price affordable for anybody.

In those price ranges high quality isn't exactly a factor, it's more about putting out a serviceable product of decent quality that is affordable that people will buy in the low end price range that is the target market.

Looking in that price range they are really one step up from gas station knives, or depending they could be one step under some of the knives found at the flea markets because in that price range it could really go either way.

Huge difference here in that price range and the price ranges of the high quality knives and the actual real quality of those products.

 

[bld522]

Good point--I'm not into Hinderers, though

Funny. Neither am I. But it might be fun to play with one or something reasonably close to one for awhile. I just don't want to have to pay $800 or so for the privilege of doing that. Know what I mean?

 

[PURPLEDC]

For me, it depends on what you include in the 'fake' category. If you just mean those chinese knockoffs that people try to pawn off as the real deal to scam a few bucks out of people, then the answer is No. If you include all of the knockoff / homage / reproduction / copy knives that are out there, that's another thing entirely. I can think of a few examples of knives that I wouldn't buy originals of because they're prohibitively expensive, but still really like the designs.

The price tags on Randall-made knives will pretty much prevent me from ever buying one (unless I either win the lottery or I make a fortune in the Meth business), but I do really like the looks of them, so I might end up buying a Blackjack some day (which are very obviously knockoffs of the Randalls, but are much more affordable). Damn those are nice looking knives. I'd even look into Cold Steel's knockoff version of the Hackmann puukko, too, if I could find one at a decent price.

Lately, I've been looking for a decent example of this classic pattern:

I always associate this pattern with Marbles knives, but from looking around, it seems like decent examples of these Marbles knives go for huge chunks of change. There are tons of other makers from back in the day that make similar designs, though, like Kinfolks, Case, and Western, and some of these other makers seem to go un-noticed on auction sites (thus commanding lower prices). I'm totally going to look into some of these other companies if I can't find a Marbles version for a price I'm willing to pay, regardless of who the original maker of this design was.

Come to think of it, I nearly bought a knockoff Grohmann a little while ago from a custom maker (might have been someone right here on Bladeforums, but I can't remember). I own a few real Grohmanns and, although I like them and am all for small knife companies like that, their steel leaves a lot to be desired. I wanted something that would hold an edge for a reasonable length of time. If you want something that looks like a Grohmann but aren't happy with Grohmann's steel choice, your only option is to look at customs.

So, yeah, I can definitely think of some situations where I'd buy a knockoff/reproduction/homage knife. Like I said, that doesn't include the cheap chinese fakes being marketed as the real deal, but it does include a whole lot of American makers who borrow a suspicious amount of designs from other makers...

I think many might take the same stance as you. That they would buy a blackjack copy of a randall but not the chinese knife. But I beg to ask what is the real difference? Lets say the chinese is an obvious reproduction of a hinderer yet doesnt have the hinderer name on it like many of these copies are and simply says titanium where the hinderer name once was. Or a sebenza clone with the word Kevin john on it. Why is it morally acceptable for one USA knifemaker to steal the property of anothers but its a problem if a chinese manufacturer does? Thats I guess my biggest problem with this. Is that some people want to change the definition of a replica or copy to fit their own needs and desires. Please understand Im not trying to single you out, I see your opinion come up a lot and I really am struggling to not find it at least slightly hypocritical. I will also hear people say that Randall knives have been around for decades and copied so many times that the designs are now public domain but I doubt if those in conrtrol of Randall knives feel the same way. If we are going to say stealing isnt right we cant say, well in this case because its what I want and its not made in china then its ok.

I'm sure if you look to car enthusiasts they're none too pleased about "homage" automobiles either regardless of country of origin...




Keepin it "real",
Czech

Not many that I know of. My brother for a very well respected tuning company for cars near chicago. He takes things like newer camaros, vettes and vipers and makes them have 2-10 times the power they originally had depending on the car, year and what it can handle. He has had a vast number of cars and if anyone could consider someone a car enthusiast it would be him. Replicas, kit cars and the like dont threaten him. He is a realist. He is passionate and well informed. He knows that someone building a cobra replica in their garage more than likely cant afford an original cobra emblem let alone the whole car. And he is schooled enough in all things automobiles to not get taken with a fake.

 

[Czechmate]

No. It would be dumb if YOU did that, not if I did that. And unless you've purchased a fake and compared it to the real deal, your estimation of how close it comes is vacuous.

I've seen many fakes in person at flea markets of Strider, Dark Ops, Cold Steel, Spyderco they've all been garbage and poorly represented the knives they copied as I'm familar with the typical quality of those brands. So, that makes your arguement null and void. Thanks for assuming though.

Seriously, there are plenty of other possible reasons, some terrifically obvious. For example: what if you wanted to buy a model that isn't being produced by the manufacturer any more, and wasn't common on the secondary market? What if you just couldn't find a Strider PT to buy, and Strider wasn't selling them any more? The Kevin John version is quite nice, and easily available all the time.

Strider is building more PT's so why buy an overpriced fake?

Only problem is, that someone wouldn't ever be me!

That point is vividly clear.

Or what if you're thinking about purchasing an absurdly overpriced knife that no American manufacturer is emulating or planning to emulate and you wouldn't dream of paying the premium for it without taking something far less expensive but reasonably close to it for a test drive? That would certainly be a stupid thing to do, wouldn't it?

And, in the end you'd still have a fake. Well done.

 

[bld522]

I've seen many fakes in person at flea markets of Strider, Dark Ops, Cold Steel, Spyderco they've all been garbage and poorly represented the knives they copied as I'm familar with the typical quality of those brands. So, that makes your arguement null and void. Thanks for assuming though.

I suspect the fakes I'm considering would be a little too pricey for your typical flea market applications. But I certainly don't want to make any assumptions.

And, in the end you'd still have a fake. Well done.

Thanks.

 

[Czechmate]

I suspect the fakes I'm considering would be a little too costly for your typical flea market knives. But I certainly don't want to make any assumptions.

I don't know as I don't act as a buying liason for the flea market booths. I can say the same booths sell legit knives costing north of $400 for particular blades. Some were just run of the mill Cold Steels at or above MSRP btw. which made me chuckle. Sad thing is, people were buying from the booth like crazy.

 

[evilgreg]

Strider is building more PT's so why buy an overpriced fake?

If I was going to buy a Strider, I'd only buy it from the secondary market anyway, because screw Mick Strider.

I used the PT as an example because it's not in current production availability and the Kevin John versions are.

As an aside, though, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the quality level. The $100 Kevin John carbon fiber & titanium knife that looks like a PT is actually very nice, from what I've seen. I would say that fit and finish was on a par with what I've seen from Strider knives, and the lock up was solid, which is more than I can say for some Striders I've handled (including two out of a purchased group of three that could be rocked open--though to their credit Strider fixed/replaced those knives). The blade steel is only Sandvik 12c27, though, not some trendy super steel.

That's the only Strider model I would buy, incidentally. Finger choils only make sense to me on itty bitty knives. I won't even have to feel guilty about doing it if I buy it (a Strider PT) used on the Exchange, it's not like that dishonorable douche would be making a penny off me.

 

[bld522]

I don't know as I don't act as a buying liason for the flea market booths. I can say the same booths sell legit knives costing north of $400 for particular blades. Some were just run of the mill Cold Steels at or above MSRP btw. which made me chuckle. Sad thing is, people were buying from the booth like crazy.

Not exactly what you'd call smart shoppers, eh?

Look, I haven't bought a counterfeit knife and I'm not sure I'm going to. But in my case, there's really nothing preventing me from doing so. Yes, I have my standards. If an original that I'm interested is fairly priced, I won't consider a fake. I'll buy the original instead. But if the market has driven the price of an original to insanely high levels (notice I didn't say out of reach, however), I WILL consider purchasing a fake before I buy the original. To me, it's dumber to pay 2 or 3 times what the original is worth than to buy a knockoff for a fraction of that price. YMMV.