If a knife is very expensive you will choose to buy fake?

[waterbeef]

Keep dreaming,we call it the flying coffin!

Flying coffin is usually a nickname of the sea harriers.

In the year of 1982, 15 J-7 fighters were exported to the US from chengdu province in china.

Your government spend your money to buy 15 flying coffins ? LOL

 

[skyhorse]

Flying coffin is usually a nickname of the sea harriers.

In the year of 1982, 15 J-7 fighters were exported to the US from chengdu province in china.

Your government spend your money to buy 15 flying coffins ? LOL

Get back with me when you guys can come up with your own designs instead of copying outdated aircraft and every other design from other country's.Until then enjoy the video.
[video=youtube;1yOd1ABPsIw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yOd1ABPsIw[/video]

 

[skyhorse]

Flying coffin is usually a nickname of the sea harriers.

In the year of 1982, 15 J-7 fighters were exported to the US from chengdu province in china.

Your government spend your money to buy 15 flying coffins ? LOL

Yes they make cheap target practice.

 

[Ken44]

Here's what I think. I think some people are afraid that a counterfeit knife could be so well made that it represents a real threat to the original at a fraction of the original's cost. And in order to protect the investment they've made in their own collections, they'd rather attack it sight unseen than get one and find out for themselves. I suspect it's fear, not ethics, that's the real driver here.

Wow. Just... wow.

 

[bld522]

IMHO, anyone buying a fake watch, purse, knife etc. is just lying to themselves about their lack of funds and trying to live vicariously through the counterfeit item.

Thanks for reminding me to add "anyone" and "everyone" to "no one", "always" and "never" on my list of words to avoid when discussing human behavior.

Isn't it possible that someone who buys a fake watch, purse or knife has the money to buy a real one but wants to see what the real one may be like before plunking down the big bucks to buy it? (PS: Contrary to popular opinion, not all fakes are junk. )

 

[skyhorse]

You fake knife enthusiasts might want to invest in a good Geiger counter.

 

[Ankerson]

IMHO, anyone buying a fake watch, purse, knife etc. is just lying to themselves about their lack of funds and trying to live vicariously through the counterfeit item.

:thumbdn:

You are talking about human nature here and that's not likely to ever change.

They aren't lying to themselves because they know what they are doing.

What they are really doing is trying to put out the impression they have more than they really do, trying to impress others for various reasons and or agendas.

That's ego and narcissistic behavior.....

There is a difference...

 

[ericvar101]

Good points there.

Out in the real world for the most part nobody would even know what the knives were or if they were fakes or real.

I can't remember the last time I ran into someone who was into knives.

All of the knives I typically have seen people use have been gas station knives or some other cheap junk.

I faced the same decision with Watches. I am also a watch guy, and aside from Rolex, most high end watches are the same as knives, in that no one else would even know what they were. I comtemplated buying a fake IWC or Jaeger LeCoultre, not to impress others, but because I really like them and did not want to spend 5 to 10 thousand dollars on a watch. After deliberating a bit, I came to the conculsion that I was better off buying a quaility watch in my price range, than a knock off of something I couldn't afford, and that it was better to have a real Tissot or Citizen, than a fake Vacheron & Constantin. The same thing applies to knives, there are quaility knives in every price range and you'll be happier with a quaility Spydero knife (even at the low end) than you'll be with a cheap piece of junk dressed up to look like a CRK. Buy quaility in your price range and forget the knock offs of inferior quaility, you'll be happier in the end.

 

[lord grimlock]

If a knife is very expensive you will choose to buy fake?

shenny, i am not really into fakes....but i do have to agree with mdqbox....why not apply your tallents elsewhere? it is rumored that the china made benchmade 42 clone may be better than the real thing....(don't crucify me yet peeps-i have not seen one first hand, so i am not making this statement-just what i have heard) so why not make your own stuff? it is not necessarily the "china" name on the blade that we americans genrally have a problem with....it is the quality (or lack thereof) that is usually associated with it. but i'll give you this-you've been steppin' up your game, as a whole. make you a deal-if you need designs, i will design knives for you...at the cost of 100 units per design. i design it, you make it, you send me the first 100 knives....of each one i design. that simple. sound fair?

 

[Dorito Monk]

So much ado about so little. Only knife freaks:

1. Are aware that CRK, Hinderer, Strider, etc. knives exist
2. Willing to pay well beyond the utility value of a knife and spend $400-$1000 for these luxury products

Unlike buying a fake Rolex or a counterfeit purse that every other woman can identify on sight, I have a hard time imagining many intentionally buying a counterfeit/fake knife (e.g. logo and trade dress marks replicated)--who the hell would it even impress? I usually carry reasonably nice knives, and in my life I can count the times I've ran into another knife nut at random (e.g. outside of a knife show) on the fingers of one hand.

Someone who wants one of these knives isn't buying it because it functions better than a solid production knife that costs much less (e.g. IMO, none of these knives significantly outperform a Spyderco Military or a Benchmade 710 when considered for their ability to, uh, cut stuff). They're buying it because it's rare and expensive and special and that makes them feel good. I'm not dogging that, I do it myself. But let's not kid ourselves into believing that someone is going to want a Sebenza, a luxury item for luxury's sake, is going to find themselves on ebay going "oh wow, this counterfeit Sebenza is only $150 and it's just as good, I'll buy that".

Seriously, who the hell believes that CRK, Hinderer, Strider, etc. are having trouble selling their products related to this stuff? Have you run into vast supplies of these items, being discounted heavily to get them moving off the shelves? People who buy these knives can easily avoid the other possible issue, being scammed by an evil seller, by just buying only from reputable vendors. Don't want to accidentally get scammed into buying a fake? Buy from a BF sponsor that has a track record of being a solid retailer. It's not tricky.

IMO, the whole thing is much ado about nothing. Should Chinese companies stop producing counterfeit goods? Yes, in a perfect world they'd quit that. In reality, they won't, and no amount of tiny niche community hand-wringing over the issue will make it go away.

Don't even get me started on the clone-but-not-outright-counterfeit knives. They're even less of a problem. That's like saying that Mercedes had trouble selling CLS sedans for $85k because VW restyled their Passat to look kind of like a cheap CLS and then sold it for $30k. Oh, wait, we can't hate on them doing that because they're both German companies. What about Hyundai then restyling their Sonata to look like the CC? Korea is in Asia, so that's kind of like China, right? Or how about the whole Matrix vs 0777 thing? Kind of inconvenient that Microtech is an American company, because if they were Chinese they'd be so evil, wouldn't they?

I think that counterfeits are evil, and people who buy them intentionally suck, but I don't believe they're actually causing much if any harm to the top makers that are targeted. Would I buy one? No.

I think that copies are part of the history of knives in general, and occupy a much less black and white space. Would I feel comfortable being in that business? No. Would I buy those knives, though? Sure, depending on the circumstances. For entertainment's sake, to see what they were about I ordered a small pile of SRM/Bee/Enlan knives to screw around with and I don't have any guilt about it. It's not like buying those knives stopped me from buying any "real" knives instead. I could do the same with a Kevin John knife without feeling bad, depending on the circumstances.

I suppose I shouldn't admit this when the hivemind is clearly in disagreement, but screw it, there you go.

Yep. You are spot on.

We knife dorks comprise such a tiny part of the world's knife-buying market, and we're the only ones who give this stuff a second thought. Virtually nobody cares about this issue.

To add to your car examples, Aston Martin isn't about to lose sales to Ford any time soon, just because Ford started borrowing Aston Martin design cues on their economy sedans.

Virtually nobody is being harmed by this issue, either, even within the tiny 'knife community'. Nobody's getting laid off at Chris Reeve, Strider, Hinderer knives or having their jobs outsourced to China due to these fakes - Rick Hinderer doesn't lose a penny when one of these 12$ Inron fakes is sold, or even when one of these 60$ Hinderer-stamped fakes is sold. About the only damage most of these fakes are doing to the 'knife community' (aside from getting people irate over a non-issue) is, once in a blue moon, when someone who doesn't know anything about knives unwittingly pays a 'real' price for a fake knife (something that can be avoided by simply not shopping on sketchy online retailers).

J-7 ，made in china, one of the best LWF in the world before 2000.

I laughed pretty hard at this. "This chinese knockoff of a 50+ year old soviet death-trap is one of the best in the world!" Dream big, bro. :thumbup:

That's pretty funny, even by Canadian "Whine about the F35 Project and cling bitterly to the old CF18s" Standards.

 

[PURPLEDC]

And as they do, and unscrupulous people buy them, even to just try out, it steals revenue from the hobby and the true manufacturers.
With the sheer amount of this crap available coming mostly from chinese vendors with no respect for copyright infringement laws, It can seriously effect businesses, vendors and craftsmen here. Which also will tend to hurt the economy in the long run.
By purchasing these items, not only are people selling themselves short, they are selling out on their fellow American hobbyist, maker and businesses.

I simply dont agree. Not many guys are sitting here going, do I buy the real hinderer for $1000 or do I want the $100 knife? Its not like if I didnt buy a knife from china that the money was guaranteed to go to a USA knifemaker. Now if these goods were on par with each other and the chinese knife being as good or better than the original then i could see it as business lost. I still say the only real negative effect are when people take true counterfeit knives and try to pass them off as originals. I just dont see how it steals revenue from anyone but the person buying the knife. This is like saying that buying a gerber combat lifesaver meant that Rick Hinderer is out the sale of a XM. If people want to slice hairs this thin then we could also flip it and show that quite a few american jobs rely on not only the replica business. But again, im not defending true counterfeiting with company logos. That I dont care for myself. But Im just cant relate the butterfly effect in relation to knives. I simply dont think the theory holds water considering how far apart the goods are in dollar amounts. Just like a corvette doesnt steal Ferrari business even if the newer car looks like an italian design. Now if rick started selling entry level budget minded production knives then I could make the parallel.

Actually they do depending on the agreement, and no, it's not hard to track how many units are sold, that's basic inventory.....

so do they get a percentage of what goes to the distributor, dealer or end consumer? Seems it would be pretty hard to track units sold as not many brick and mortar or internet retailers are going to report the manufacturer on how many units they have turned over. So when people say units sold, I tend to think of it to the end consumer. This is why I was under the impression the maker was compensated for the design and how many units they are going to produce, not literally for every unit that ends up in someones hands. I think we simply have a misunderstanding of the definition of units sold. My god could you imagine kershaw trying to keep track of every leek on a shelf, in someones hand or sitting at a distributor?

big makers, fuel this fire by moving production too china. This allows the factories too copy other designs. If the big 4 or 5 did not fuel the factories there be less copies.

again, if you chineese steel stay away - period

The copies are happening with all knives. Custom, production. Even if the big 4 or 5 pulled their production from china the chinese would still steal the designs. Probably even more so for having to make up for lost manufacturing. By utilizing overseas production it can fill a void not able to be filled with US production. There is a demand for entry level and mid level knives. And the cost of US manufacturing doesnt allow for these products to be made here in most cases. So if these companies DIDNT use chinese manufacturing chances are they wouldnt be taking a profit large enough to keep the USA factories going. Life is a balance and many USA jobs depend on overseas manufacturing. They just arent manufacturing jobs. They are Quality control, final set up and assembly jobs and customer service and warranty jobs. This whole theory about overseas production fueling counterfeiters really is baseless. The counterfeits being produced are not of the units they are all ready making in china. Those knives are all ready at a price point that cloning them doesnt benefit them. And they are the ones making them so if they were to back door them its not really a fake as they make the original too. I dont believe counterfeiting is from overseas production. Its from sales of knives on forums, ebay and other auctions to those doing the counterfeiting. These people pose as chinese collectors. If you ever see someone from china buying up every single high dollar desirable knife regardless of price chances are its to get the knife back to china to reverse engineer it. I remember once a chinese buyer wanted to buy a red handled Double edge scarab off of me. I sold it to him but forgot to write the serial number down. But I swear to god six months later replicas of that knife with what I swore was the serial number on the clip were on a chinese selling site. It only takes one knife for them to copy. And if the current line up of countefeits says anything they arent very interested in the stuff we contract them to make. Hell, they sometimes dont even need a knife. Both M/T and china replicated the 0777 without an example to get meaurements.

Why would I buy a fake and get zero blade performance. The whole idea of buying a knife is to be used as a cutting tool, so what would be the point in buying a fake knock off with a cheap blade steel and non existent heat treat. I have seen some first hand and they will dull very quickly as if they are in annealed state.

This is to assume that all chinese knives are created equal. Yes they make some crap but we cant assume that all of them lack heat treat. Just like we cant assume (because we know that its not true) that all USA made knives are the highest quality.

 

[ericvar101]

shenny, i am not really into fakes....but i do have to agree with mdqbox....why not apply your tallents elsewhere? it is rumored that the china made benchmade 42 clone may be better than the real thing....(don't crucify me yet peeps-i have not seen one first hand, so i am not making this statement-just what i have heard) so why not make your own stuff? it is not necessarily the "china" name on the blade that we americans genrally have a problem with....it is the quality (or lack thereof) that is usually associated with it. but i'll give you this-you've been steppin' up your game, as a whole. make you a deal-if you need designs, i will design knives for you...at the cost of 100 units per design. i design it, you make it, you send me the first 100 knives....of each one i design. that simple. sound fair?

Speak for yourself. I like to buy products made in America and know that I am supporting American workers and have pride in buying American. I do not own any knives made in china. All my Spydies are made in Golden Co.

 

[Ankerson]

I faced the same decision with Watches. I am also a watch guy, and aside from Rolex, most high end watches are the same as knives, in that no one else would even know what they were. I comtemplated buying a fake IWC or Jaeger LeCoultre, not to impress others, but because I really like them and did not want to spend 5 to 10 thousand dollars on a watch. After deliberating a bit, I came to the conculsion that I was better off buying a quaility watch in my price range, than a knock off of something I couldn't afford, and that it was better to have a real Tissot or Citizen, than a fake Vacheron & Constantin. The same thing applies to knives, there are quaility knives in every price range and you'll be happier with a quaility Spydero knife (even at the low end) than you'll be with a cheap piece of junk dressed up to look like a CRK. Buy quaility in your price range and forget the knock offs of inferior quaility, you'll be happier in the end.

Living within ones means is a good thing, it's not like most people are rubbing elbows with Billionaires on a daily basis, or live next door to one.

 

[Ankerson]

Speak for yourself. I like to buy products made in America and know that I am supporting American workers and have pride in buying American. I do not own any knives made in china. All my Spydies are made in Golden Co.

One thing that has forgotten in this thread is that while the products might be made overseas it's actually US companies that have those products made by those manufacturers....

And or it's US Companies that are selling them.....

Those overseas manufacturers are just doing what they have been hired to do, make those products to the standards set by the parent companies that contracted them.

 

[bld522]

What they are really doing is trying to put out the impression they have more than they really do, trying to impress others for various reasons and or agendas.

The word "all" is implied in that statement, Jim. And it's no more true than Czechmate's statement. But it does remind me to add the word "all" to my list of no-no's.

 

[Ankerson]

The word "all" is implied in that statement, Jim. And it's no more true than Czechmate's statement. But it does remind me to add another word to my list of no-no's.

I was speaking in general terms.....

There is no all as that would imply that all people are the same and we know that's not true....

However if they fit the profile........

 

[bld522]

. . . then they fit the profile. Just like if they don't fit the profile, they don't fit the profile.

 

[Ankerson]

. . . then they fit the profile. Just like if they don't fit the profile, they don't fit the profile.

It's all about the percentages and basic human behavior.

Those items are made because they sell and the companies know they sell because of market research and research on basic human behavior....

 

[bld522]

Right. But those companies couldn't care less about the motivators that get people to buy their products. They only care about what gets sold.

There are two huge fallacies that continue to repeat themselves in this thread:

1. All fakes are junk.
2. Everybody who buys a fake does so from the same set of motives.

Neither could be further from the truth.

 

[Czechmate]

Thanks for reminding me to add "anyone" and "everyone" to "no one", "always" and "never" on my list of words to avoid when discussing human behavior.

Isn't it possible that someone who buys a fake watch, purse or knife has the money to buy a real one but wants to see what the real one may be like before plunking down the big bucks to buy it? (PS: Contrary to popular opinion, not all fakes are junk. )

I only deal in absolutes so . Yes to the first sentence, and no to the second... If you have the money to buy the real deal, why waste extra money on a fake in advance? That's just poor money management... :foot:

You are talking about human nature here and that's not likely to ever change.

They aren't lying to themselves because they know what they are doing.

What they are really doing is trying to put out the impression they have more than they really do, trying to impress others for various reasons and or agendas.

That's ego and narcissistic behavior.....

There is a difference...

Jim, you've managed to succintly say what I was trying to get at in my long winded rambling... :foot:

Here's another take on it (hopefully!)

Meet Bob, he's sporting the latest:
- Fake Rolex
- Fake St. Dupont Lighter
- Fake Coach Wallet
- Fake D&G sunglasses
- Fake LaCoste shirt

What does that make Bob?....