If I have no money for a Busse and if A2 sucks? What options for a survival knife?

Stop basing your knife decisions on attention starved knife clown videos to start with, and then learn about knives and steel(s). Buy something you like that fits your needs. Post your price range, and intended use/size desired, and you will get a lot of good suggestions for further research.
 
His only defense is a misguided opinion that people don't use their knives hard enough? What do you plan on doing? Please provide more specific responses if you truly want an answer from us. Without any kind of proof to substantiate your claims, I'm not sure what kind of answers you're actually looking for. What other knives have you had and used in the past and how have they failed you?

Otherwise, this is a troll thread..
 
I would close this thread if I knew how.
I don't why the hostility and bad reaction. I thought people in W&S will be more technical and objective even if the question was stupid.

Why accuse me of trolling guys?
 
I think you are really having a laugh saying 1095 breaks easily eh ? Do you not see the prying and battoning I do with my knives, they are nearly all 1095 !

Regards INFI I still believe that if they made a thin stock full flat blade you would not see much difference than one of the same specs made from 1095 or any other decent carbon steel for that matter. Most Busse knives are thick stock with thick grinds and designed for abuse, that's why they rarely fail.

If you are dead set against 1095 then get a Swamprat knife made from SR101, if ya break that then you are doing something very wrong brother !!!!
 
ukknifer said:
I would close this thread if I knew how.
I don't why the hostility and bad reaction. I thought people in W&S will be more technical and objective even if the question was stupid.

Why accuse me of trolling guys?
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Because your comments are ridiculous. This thread really needs to land in W&C.
 
I'm not a big Noss-basher...I do watch his tests and find them oddly educational, but you have to put his tests into perspective and apply sound reasoning on "real" knife use, tough applications and purely stupid abuse. I can honestly say I've never had to use my knife to cut through cinder blocks, never bent my knife with the leverage of four foot pipe and never hammered or baton my knife with a sledge hammer. Like I said, I enjoy his tests to see how much abuse that particular knife can withstand, but application in reality is much different. If you don't have the money for a INFI Busse, William mentioned Scrap Yard and Swamp Rat knives, both excellent deals from the Busse lineage; however, well heat treated 1095 (William also mentioned 5160...another great steel used in older RD series and offered in some customs) will perform 99% of the same tasks under the same condition without fear of “failure”.

Just like some rifles, people want a certain level of accuracy but will never even practice or reach the level of potential the rifle is capable of. 99% of the hard-use knife owners (who don't purposely abuse the knife) will never use a knife to the point of failure. Focus on a quality heat-treated steel (the best your budget can allow), comfort of the knife in your hand, a functional design that suits your needs and a sheath system that fits your carrying lifestyle/attire to ensure you always carry it when you can…that is the most important definition of a “survival” knife IMHO.

ROCK6
 
ukknifer said:
I would close this thread if I knew how.
I don't why the hostility and bad reaction. I thought people in W&S will be more technical and objective even if the question was stupid.

Why accuse me of trolling guys?
Click to expand...

I think it's because this isn't the Busse sub-forum, so we don't all think Busse is the be-all-end-all. Also, just because a specific knife fails at being a pry bar, it doesn't mean that the steel "sucks."

If you want a knife to survive as a pry bar, just get a really thick knife. I don't think the steel will matter that much.

What you should be asking is what knives have the blade length and handle shape that you prefer for the price range you have.
 
ukknifer said:
Hi

I just saw Noss4 test of Bark River Bravo1 in A2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEABRcTeIE0&feature=related
This thread is not about how Noss4 tests are abuse or good tests.
This Thread is not About Bark river marketing strategies and the sort.

This is about A2 as a survival (not bushcraft) knife blade and if there alternatives for those who cant afford Infi on a Busse.
I don't like 1095 because I have seen it break easily in tests.
3V is as expensive as Infi (almost) and not available on production knives.

Any ideas?

Thank you guys
Click to expand...

A2 is fine for a survival knife, Noss is an (leaving out personal attacks) anyway the Bravo I is an outstanding blade and A2 is fine
 
My survival knife is a Newt Livesay RTAK. 3/16" 1095, flat ground, differentially hardened, with a micarta handle. I have 8 acres of trees, and do more chopping than a lot of people, not as much as some. In the year that I have owned it, I have never sharpened it. It is used for cutting. It's not a prybar, though I could do some light prying. It's not a shovel, though if need be, I'm sure I could use it for light digging. It's a knife, it is designed for cutting stuff, and that is what I do with it. The testing I put it through is the stuff I cut. WHY would I try to break it? That doesn't make any sense. My grandfather was one of the last real cowboys. He rode open range in Wyoming in the 1920s and 30s. His SURVIVAL knife was a Case Trapper, with carbon steel blades. One of the things he taught me was, use the right tool for the job. Unless you are parachuting into enemy territory with only what you can carry, why NOT have a light shovel for digging? Why NOT have a light prybar? WHY tear up a perfectly good cutting tool using it for something it was NOT designed to do? Yeah, it's cool to see just how much abuse a piece of steel can take. But it's NOT the best way to figure out what knife works best for you. The steel in any good knife is much less important than good heat treatment. I have knives made of 440A, 440C, SK5, 12c27, AUS8A, AUS6, 1095, 5160, VG10, ZDP-189, and various unknown carbon steel alloys, and NONE of them have failed when used as knives. If I need a shovel, I'll USE a shovel.
 
I would probably base my decision on the maker as opposed to the steel. Of course there are certain steels I prefer over others, but if they are heat treated poorly, who cares what type of metal is...it will suck. I would find a maker that you like and then discuss different steel options with him. My preference usually goes to Scott Gossman and A2.
 
I wonder what Horace Kephart's knives were made from? They seemed to work for him.
 
ukknifer said:
I would close this thread if I knew how.
I don't why the hostility and bad reaction. I thought people in W&S will be more technical and objective even if the question was stupid.

Why accuse me of trolling guys?
Click to expand...
Probably because you bashed steels you know nothing about, and that are justifiably popular around here.
There's nothing wrong with 1095, or A2. They just have to be heat treated properly, and ground to a geometry the steel can support in use, just like any other bladesteel. Bark River is not who I would look to as an example-too many issues with grinds, and apparently, HT.
 
justjed said:
My survival knife is a Newt Livesay RTAK. 3/16" 1095, flat ground, differentially hardened, with a micarta handle. I have 8 acres of trees, and do more chopping than a lot of people, not as much as some. In the year that I have owned it, I have never sharpened it. It is used for cutting. It's not a prybar, though I could do some light prying. It's not a shovel, though if need be, I'm sure I could use it for light digging. It's a knife, it is designed for cutting stuff, and that is what I do with it. The testing I put it through is the stuff I cut. WHY would I try to break it? That doesn't make any sense. My grandfather was one of the last real cowboys. He rode open range in Wyoming in the 1920s and 30s. His SURVIVAL knife was a Case Trapper, with carbon steel blades. One of the things he taught me was, use the right tool for the job. Unless you are parachuting into enemy territory with only what you can carry, why NOT have a light shovel for digging? Why NOT have a light prybar? WHY tear up a perfectly good cutting tool using it for something it was NOT designed to do? Yeah, it's cool to see just how much abuse a piece of steel can take. But it's NOT the best way to figure out what knife works best for you. The steel in any good knife is much less important than good heat treatment. I have knives made of 440A, 440C, SK5, 12c27, AUS8A, AUS6, 1095, 5160, VG10, ZDP-189, and various unknown carbon steel alloys, and NONE of them have failed when used as knives. If I need a shovel, I'll USE a shovel.
Click to expand...

What if this happens?
ColdSteel-ReconScoutbustedinlog.jpg
 
The RIGHT tool for the job, as I said. THAT job should have been done with an axe, or a splitting wedge. ANY knife can, and WILL, break, if not used properly. That said, if I needed to use my knife to cut firewood, I would be a little more careful about the size of log I was working. I would also use something differentially hardened, to minimize the risk of breakage. The Recon Scout is the same hardness in the tang, spine, and edge. NOT the best formula for a hard use knife. Also, the blade is very thick, at 1/4", and not very wide, which increases the wedging action. And, obviously, it was pretty cold, which increases the brittleness of the steel. MOST people will not be using the RS for that kind of work though, and will do just fine with it as is. Again, HEAT TREATMENT and blade geometry are more important than the alloy used in the blade, and I prefer a good differentially hardened carbon steel. I have no doubt that my RTAK would NOT have failed catastrophically like that, because of the alloy, the wide flat grind, and heat treat.
 
I have used all types of knives with for all types of steel for all types of survival related chores... including battoning hickory and ironwood with a half tang mora .078 inches thick....I have never broken a blade...
don't treat a tool like a $5.00 prostitute,, don't just grab it and start pounding....Treat it like a lover feel how it responds to what you are doing, and change your touch and strategy accordingly.....and you will never break a blade.
wits not kits brother... Skills trump the "what knife" dilemma everytime.
a2 ,1095 are proven steels by outdoorsman far more skilled than you or I
in fact either of them are a hell of alot tougher than obsidian Jasper or flint
which is pretty much what people used for survival knives for about 50,000 years or so..up to around the bronze age
an obsidian blade sure wouldn;t stand up to a Noss test... but tell that to a Woolly mammoth.
 
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