I'm done with Bark River

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Karda said:
One can either think for themselves and be smarter than the situation, or believe everything they read or hear and go thru life miserable, complaining and blaming others..... just sayin'.
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Or one can not defend knife companies that lie about performance and then berate their customers when their products don't live up to the hype they spew.

So according to you knife companies have no accountability for how they describe their products and everything is the customer's fault no matter what the company writes. Or are you trying to say that Bark River lies about product performance and we can't believe anything they say?

How about companies honestly describe how their products perform? See, then it would be the customer's fault for doing something not outlined in acceptable use guidelines. Right now it's not the customer's fault. He did exactly what Bark River said he could do with the knife. Literally word for word what they said on their website. But oh, let's blame the customer instead of placing blame where it belongs :rolleyes:
 
First off, I am glad you survived such a perilous situation with the knife you had on you. Secondly, why don't you carry a freaking hatchet in your car?
 
So sorry to hear about the way the owner of BRKT treated you man. Any knife company worth their salt should have immediately offered you to send the knife back in for inspection and replacement. Belittling and blaming the customer is absolutely uncalled for and unacceptable!

MS is actually a bit notorious for his relatively mean and disrespectful attitude to his customers when they have a warranty issue with one of his knives. BRKT isn't worth a damn in my book. Ugly knives, and unethical service from a man who obviously does not appreciate his customers. Most other knife companies would not think twice about making this right. This is precisely why I, and countless other people here stay away from Bark River Knives.
 
Fanglekai said:
Or one can not defend knife companies that lie about performance and then berate their customers when their products don't live up to the hype they spew.

So according to you knife companies have no accountability for how they describe their products and everything is the customer's fault no matter what the company writes. Or are you trying to say that Bark River lies about product performance and we can't believe anything they say?

How about companies honestly describe how their products perform? See, then it would be the customer's fault for doing something not outlined in acceptable use guidelines. Right now it's not the customer's fault. He did exactly what Bark River said he could do with the knife. Literally word for word what they said on their website. But oh, let's blame the customer instead of placing blame where it belongs :rolleyes:
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Actually, I believe in honesty.
Please don't try to insinuate my saying something I didn't say, thank you.
I don't believe BRKT specifically mentions that one can chop mesquite or cinder blocks for that matter in their ad copy. Which means that the end user must bear some of the responsibility for forethought. Which I have said three times now.
 
panzertroop said:
Here we go again. I have personally seen a BRKT golok get a dime size chip out of it form chopping a pine branch. That seems like a reasonable task by any woodsman's standard.
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Mine did exactly this. Sent it back in and they reground half of it away to take out the chip. Got it back and was pruning willow shutes when it chipped again. It's been rusting ever since. The BRKT Golok is the biggest knife purchase disappointment I've ever experienced.
 
Knifein said:
So sorry to hear about the way the owner of BRKT treated you man. Any knife company worth their salt should have immediately offered you to send the knife back in for inspection and replacement. Belittling and blaming the customer is absolutely uncalled for and unacceptable!

MS is actually a bit notorious for his relatively mean and disrespectful attitude to his customers when they have a warranty issue with one of his knives. BRKT isn't worth a damn in my book. Ugly knives, and unethical service from a man who obviously does not appreciate his customers. Most other knife companies would not think twice about making this right. This is precisely why I, and countless other people here stay away from Bark River Knives.
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Spot on.

I have no personal opinion about BRKT knives as I have never used their knives in any capacity. But, as I said in another BRKT thread, there are enough comments around the web to leave me very, very wary of MS and his customer service. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire and these expressed experiences are exactly what someone dealing with the public should strive, above all else, to avoid. I've also seen enough posts by Big Mike to know that he is a straight shooter and is a level headed individual. But his usually solid opinion notwithstanding, I'm not willing to take a chance when I can get a similar product without the controversy or concerns.

OTOH...

okbohn said:
Also, Pharaoh, if you want, you can send it to me and I'll get you a store credit toward something else. I hate it when someone has a bad experience like this with a brand I like so much.

Just an offer.
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I have not done business with you (okbohn) before but this response, and I've seen others like it by you, just won you a new customer. You are obviously a stand-up guy with the right perspective on how to treat a customer. I put your site on my list of dealers that I like to do business with (simple bookmarks that I check for whatever knife it is that I'm interested in) and will be doing business with you. Nothing impresses me more than great CS or impresses me less than poor CS. That is far more important to me than price. You obviously get that concept. I'll watch your site for items of interest. :)
 
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Derrick is the reason why i do business with them too, such a stand up guy that wants his customers to be fully satisfied, you have my business Derrick. As a matter of fact you should getting my scandi gunny i wanted swapped out for a gunny hunter in maroon linen micarta lol. Havent had a bad experience with Bark River.... yet.. and i hope i never do, ive sent knives back in and got them back modified and looking new, i will say though on newer super steel models the fit and finish is a bit off.. just saying. Still love the knives and i'll keep buying from no one else but Derrick :thumbup:
 
Karda said:
Actually, I believe in honesty.
Please don't try to insinuate my saying something I didn't say, thank you.
I don't believe BRKT specifically mentions that one can chop mesquite or cinder blocks for that matter in their ad copy. Which means that the end user must bear some of the responsibility for forethought. Which I have said three times now.
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Karda said:
One can either think for themselves and be smarter than the situation, or believe everything they read or hear and go thru life miserable, complaining and blaming others..... just sayin'.
Click to expand...

My contention throughout the thread has been that companies are responsible for what they write in their product descriptions. How else should I have interpreted your statement that it's the customer's fault for "believ[ing] everything they read or hear"? Bark River markets the knife as 1) tough and 2) excelling at batoning, chopping and splitting firewood. Is there an asterisk in that description? Does Bark River say hardwoods are excluded? It says "firewood". I've used mesquite for firewood. It's lovely for grilling and smoking meats too. I'd say that classifies it as a firewood. If their knives cannot stand up to chopping, splitting or batoning hardwoods how about put that in the description? That would be honesty and it would be a statement of limitation as to the performance or intended use of the knife as a tool. Then if a customer used the tool outside of the explicit boundaries stated by the company that could be construed as being the customer's fault.

You said it's the customer's fault for "believ[ing] everything they read or hear". Was I supposed to interpret that in a different way other than the literal meaning of the customer was wrong to believe what he read and was at fault for believing what Bark River wrote in the product description? I'm taking what you wrote at face value. You said customers should "think for themselves". That removes any and all responsibility from the company for correctly promoting their products in a manner consistent with their physical limitations.

If Canon says I can use their "underwater camera" underwater in a pool and then I tried it and the product failed would that be my fault? Of course not. If a company says their product is designed to be used in a specific way then why should a customer think otherwise? People buy things based on what the product description says. If the product description is a lie, the company should be held accountable. It has nothing to do with "believ[ing] everything they read or hear".

The bottom line is Bark River is at fault for marketing their product as a chopping/splitting tool for firewood (no limitations listed) when it obviously is not designed to handle such tasks. It very well could excel at other tasks that would make it worth its cost, but that's a completely separate issue.
 
I spoke to Mike Stewart about this thread. I know some of you have had and/or heard rough experiences with him. Mike has always treated me like a million bucks. He has taken good care of any issue I have had and the issues with my customers. I wanted to share his response.

...

That is not the way the conversation went at all but since I don't belong to bladeforums there is not much I can do.

I was nothing but nice but I did tell him that a Heat treat Problem was impossible. We do them hundreds at a time and if one is bad they all would be bad.

Every Batch of blades we do is Lab Certified for hardness on the blade and the lower hardness on the Tang. We pay extra for this service.

I told him to send it in and I would happily re-grind the blade with thicker geometry.

It is not Possible to have one of our knives have a heat treat Problem - We are meticulous about our Heat Treat.

I did laugh when he told me he was Chopping Old Dried Out Mesquite. That is not for anything less than an Ax or Chain Saw.

We cut Mesquite all the time for handles and it will literally Burn out a Bandsaw Blade in one cut if you push too hard.

I told him the problem with the Edge and that I would fix it - the edge was too Thin for what he wanted to do with it - I told him that I would re-set the edge with thicker Geometry.

We introduced the Golok in 2005 - Since then we have literally made thousands of them. I think I know how to identify an edge problem on one and from his description the issue was clear. It was clearly not the Heat Treat.

That was the End of the Conversation. I was pleasant and he was pleasant. I detected nothing from him that would lead me to think he was not satisfied with my Response.

I told him to send it in Attention: Alicia with a note describing the problem and we would re-grind it and get it back to him.

The Knife is Still under Lifetime Warranty and even though he posted what he did - the knife is Still covered.

We always stand behind our products and always will.



Mike
 
I was hoping Mike's response would be a Lynn Thompson-esque video with short shorts and all swinging around a Golok at some wood.
 
okbohn said:
I spoke to Mike Stewart about this thread. I know some of you have had and/or heard rough experiences with him. Mike has always treated me like a million bucks. He has taken good care of any issue I have had and the issues with my customers. I wanted to share his response.

...

That is not the way the conversation went at all but since I don't belong to bladeforums there is not much I can do.

I was nothing but nice but I did tell him that a Heat treat Problem was impossible. We do them hundreds at a time and if one is bad they all would be bad.

Every Batch of blades we do is Lab Certified for hardness on the blade and the lower hardness on the Tang. We pay extra for this service.

I told him to send it in and I would happily re-grind the blade with thicker geometry.

It is not Possible to have one of our knives have a heat treat Problem - We are meticulous about our Heat Treat.

I did laugh when he told me he was Chopping Old Dried Out Mesquite. That is not for anything less than an Ax or Chain Saw.

We cut Mesquite all the time for handles and it will literally Burn out a Bandsaw Blade in one cut if you push too hard.

I told him the problem with the Edge and that I would fix it - the edge was too Thin for what he wanted to do with it - I told him that I would re-set the edge with thicker Geometry.

We introduced the Golok in 2005 - Since then we have literally made thousands of them. I think I know how to identify an edge problem on one and from his description the issue was clear. It was clearly not the Heat Treat.

That was the End of the Conversation. I was pleasant and he was pleasant. I detected nothing from him that would lead me to think he was not satisfied with my Response.

I told him to send it in Attention: Alicia with a note describing the problem and we would re-grind it and get it back to him.

The Knife is Still under Lifetime Warranty and even though he posted what he did - the knife is Still covered.

We always stand behind our products and always will.



Mike
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Well that certainly brings in a lot of perspective. It's always good to hear both sides of the story I believe. Hopefully the OP will reconsider his decision to not send in the knife, as it seems like all of this is a big mis-understanding, both between how the knife was used (on Mike Stewart's side) and on how it probably wasn't the heat treat (on OPs side).
 
I've bought a lot of knives from Derrick. His customer service, as displayed in this thread, is a BIG reason why he gets my business. Just wondering, did this particular golok originate from KSF?
 
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PharaohX3 said:
Good call, that makes perfect sense to me. Google "mesquite". Then Google Bark River Golok, making sure to read BRKT's own description of the knife. Let me know what you think :)
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OK. Googled:

Mesquite wood is hard, allowing it to be used for furniture and implements. Wood from Prosopis juliflora and Prosopis glandulosa is used for decorative woodworking and woodturning. It is highly desirable due to its dimensional stability after being fully cured. The hard, dense lumber is also sold as "Texas Ironwood" and is rather harsh on chain saws and other tools.
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As most hardwoods dry, they shrink more in one direction than they do in the other. Mesquite shrinks the same percentage in both directions. It has a surface hardness of 2,336 pounds per square inch, equal to that of hickory and almost twice that of oak and maple, and a density of 45 pounds per foot, greater than oak, maple, pecan and hickory.
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The advertising does not indicate that the golok shouldn't be used on mesquite, therefore the manufacurer is responsible for any failure that results from that use. However it is true that using a thin grind to chop very hard wood will likely result in edge damage. It sounds like re-grinding it as offered would address the problem on both ends. It also sounds like the manufacturer had reasonable grounds to dismiss the idea of a heat-treat issue -- I think that may be the rub here, the OP felt disrespected which it sounds like is not that uncommom for BR customers with issues.
 
No dog in this fight and no interest in BRKT knives (no reason just none).... I do however have a slight quiver of my BS meter once I see someone saying "It is not Possible to have one of our knives have a heat treat Problem" ...because if there is one thing I have learned is that when it comes to the manufacture of ANYTHING there is always the possibility of a problem no matte if it is a $200 knife or a $2,000,000 widget for a jet aircraft engine.

I hope this has a happy ending for all concerned.

Andy
 
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