Imitation is...

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sheathmaker said:
I hope this is not construed as beating a dead horse, but I think the photo below is pertinent and germane to the subject at hand. I am still not speaking for Ron although I did ask his permission to share the photo with you.

2lvbyw3.jpg


This photo is of a design concept which was done as you can see in July 1997 (7-1997)

Now I truly do rest my case if you will let me, Kevin.

Paul
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Thanks for sharing that, Paul.
 
Looks like you nailed it, Paul.

How this discussion got to this point is a concern, considering the following quote:

"I was a little angry at first because I thought (with Ron and Kyle being good friends) Kyle had giving (sic) Ron permission to make that close a copy. I contacted Kyle and found he knew nothing of the copy. Kyle contacted Ron, and I will just say they had a discussion."

Hmm.
 
I must say though in 1997 Kyle was 7 year old....

I know he is a phenom ....but that would really be impressive :)
 
I don't want to get into the politics here but that picture doesn't show me anything. Looks like a strange unclear copy. I think there are always more details that no one will know.

I respect all parties here. I was there when Kevin was looking at handle material and describing the knife that was to be built, with great enthusiasm. Whether or not Kyle was 7 when the knife design was "conceived" he made the knife which was at least requested to be copied by another collector before the second one was made. But I think a maker will take many opportunities/jobs given so I don't blame anyone really.

To me the removable ring guard is what separates the knife from that drawing, although I admit I can't read what is written in.
 
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Looking at the picture.....

It is hard to make out some of the handwriting but it does appear to say " Go for it Ron! I love it. Just do the single ring. I have plenty of duplicates"
 
Sure...

he was asked in 1997 and to make it again in what....2010?


The drawing in 1997 sure looks pretty close to this pict



Mfh1pqe.jpg
 
Tad Lynch said:
Don,

Wouldn't that be a bit like someone asking you to copy Hailey's knife? The end result would be similar but you did it first.

Tad
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Tad, it depends on what came first, the chicken or the egg. :)

Was there a knife like this before Kyle's, or just a drawing?
 
Kevin Jones said:
Being influenced by another maker's work or adapting another's style can be a positive thing. One example would be the tremendous positive impact that Loveless designs have had on not only stockremoval knives but custom knives in general.
However, there's never a legitimate reason or excuse for one artist or craftsman to attempt to make a direct copy of another's work.
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When I have copied specific pieces of work it is to try and advance my own learning. See what works about the design in use (or doesn't), see what challenges there are in the making and techniques required. Having a piece to copy gives a benchmark to compare to. I would never suggest it was my design though and would always give appropriate credit. I ask when I can, but for some people it's not possible to get hold of.
 
Don Hanson III said:
Was there a knife like this before Kyle's, or just a drawing?
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Why does it matter?

I am editing this post to make sure I am clear and not accused of being a smart ass. Because I am legitimately interested in trying to understand how you are seeing it.

An example may help to explain how I see it.

Let's say you posted a picture of a knife you were planning. Or just gave the picture to a potential customer.

Regardless, now someone comes along and makes a knife pretty much like the one you drew up.

Does that mean you are no longer supposed to make that knife that you drew up on your own? Personally, I think there is no problem or issue at all with making that knife.

Or do you see something different here?
 
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I wonder how Kevin and Kyle got their hands on that drawing to copy it? Now come on guys think about that. Could someone please run the numbers and tell me what the odd's are in that? Real slim I would bet.

Cliff
 
Cliff Parker said:
I wonder how Kevin and Kyle got their hands on that drawing to copy it? Now come on guys think about that. Could someone please run the numbers and tell me what the odd's are in that? Real slim I would bet.

Cliff
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I might have missed it, but did anyone say that Kevin and Kyle copied it? That is certainly not what I thought.
 
The Virginian said:
I might have missed it, but did anyone say that Kevin and Kyle copied it? That is certainly not what I thought.
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I'm sorry that came across that way . I thought thats were it was headed when this drawing came about after several posts of the 2 knives being talked about.
I do not in any way feel Kevin and Kyle copied anything.
I was trying to imply how dumb that may sound.

Cliff
 
The Virginian said:
Why does it matter?

I am editing this post to make sure I am clear and not accused of being a smart ass. Because I am legitimately interested in trying to understand how you are seeing it.

An example may help to explain how I see it.

Let's say you posted a picture of a knife you were planning. Or just gave the picture to a potential customer.

Regardless, now someone comes along and makes a knife pretty much like the one you drew up.

Does that mean you are no longer supposed to make that knife that you drew up on your own? Personally, I think there is no problem or issue at all with making that knife.

Or do you see something different here?
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Ken, none of this really matters to me. This whole thing is just very odd and interesting and stuff... :cool:
 
Jon Brand said:
I don't want to get into the politics here but that picture doesn't show me anything. Looks like a strange unclear copy. I think there are always more details that no one will know.
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It doesn't show me anything either Jon as the elements and layout of the photo is very strange.
 
I, too, think this whole thing is VERY strange and VERY interesting and VERY odd - and I don't think I need any back stories to adopt some rather straightforward conclusions about it, given Paul's contribution to the thread.
 
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Cliff Parker said:
I'm sorry that came across that way . I thought thats were it was headed when this drawing came about after several posts of the 2 knives being talked about.
I do not in any way feel Kevin and Kyle copied anything.
I was trying to imply how dumb that may sound.

Cliff
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Cliff, you make a good point. If that Bowie was drawn in 1997 it would imply that the Ring Bowie Kyle made for me 12 years latter was made from that drawing or a copy of the Bowie (if one was ever made) as they are that close.
And that is certainly not the case.

As Don said very Strange and Interesting.


 
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