IMPORTANT: New Classifieds Section, and the For Sale Forums

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Sorry, John, I just call it like I see it. Always have, always will. If being called arrogant is the price of having to bend over backwards to support a community like this, then I guess I'll just have to bear that, just like everything else.

I wasn't aware of any conflicts between us, but I'd be more than happy to work them out.

Unfortunately, you can't make an omelete without breaking some eggs. I'm trying to break the least possible, while trying to make the biggest, tastiest omelete out there. You can either help me cook, or stand by and watch, but you'll have to pardon me if I don't want to sit there and go hungry while everyone else eats till they are full.

Savitar - thus far the costs have been over $30,000 just for keeping this site open for the past 2 years. Software, Server, Bandwidth, Rackspace, it all ads up, and that doesn't count the manhour costs.

My mistake about the several knives comment, you have my apologies... I failed to look farther than the post I read when I picked it at random from the posts you've made in the month you've been here. I should have said the knife and the flashlight. I'm glad you were able to trade and make $100 off of it though... which just proves to me that we are providing a valuable service that's worth us getting something in return for.

You seem awfully concerned with trying to find the worst in this, why I haven't a clue, especially when you have proof that using BladeForums.com can be extremely profitable...

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here


[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 05-24-2000).]
 
Let me start off by saying that I think $1.49 to sell a knife is more then fair. As has already been pointed out, where are you going to get worldwide exposer for a buck and a half.

Now for the negative comments

Spark

On this string, your opening remark was "If this stuff keeps up, I'm going to have to take action that's going to drastically affect how the For Sale forums operate." (emphasis mine) This comment was made on 05/12/00 and you implied that a decision had not been made.

05/13/00: "I'm looking for any help and suggestions that you guys can offer to solve this problem... and have quite possibly found a solution that will solve the problems / limitations we currently face."

05/14/00: "Guys, a lot of you have brought up very valid points, especially Ken. Thank you, as you've given me ample food for thought.

Keep the ideas flowing..."

05/15/00: "I guess you can't fit everyone into the same mold.... I'll have to revamp my thinking a bit."

05/15/00: "Like I said guys, you have all given me a lot of food for thought and I'm trying to consider every aspect before I make a decision of this magnitude. Last thing I want to do is act rashly and then do something stupid."

From Mike Turber 05/17/00: "We are looking at several possible solutions right now and when we get to one that we think is fair to everyone and that benifits the members that wish to sell here and dealers alike we will announce it.

Till then keep the ideas coming."

05/18/00: "Let me make myself clear... I have no intention of limiting the number of knife for sale ads someone can place. We all know that the only net effect of this would be to force people into another avenue, whether it is Ebay, Amazon, another site, etc.

That's not the best way to handle things, and I don't think that anyone will be best served by doing such a thing. We don't want to penalize the people who do the right thing.

Instead, I want to look at what *can* be done to help improve the current situation."

A mere eleven days after this discussion started you have a "For Sale" forum all set up and make the following comment, "I've been testing and experimenting with the software for the last 30 days or so,and we're finally ready to go live with it."

What was the Judge Judy quote? . . . . "Don't pee on my leg and tell me "It's raining""

I realize that the public at large are sheep and need to be lead in directions. And there is an art to making them think it's their idea. But I think 90% of the people here are a cut above the average and could have been told a week ago "We are trying to make the forum self sustaining. In two weeks we will be implementing software that we have purchased and tested. The cost of advertising your knives for sale will be $1.49. We think your really going to like options you'll have with the software. More information to follow."

Guys, I love Bladeforums. I, like many here, visit several times a day (minimum). I'll do what I can to support the forums and again I think $1.49 an ad is a bargain.

John Hollister
 
To be honest, this is as about as fair as they can make it. Sort of levels the field, so to speak.

Dealers with web sites can still buy banners to advertize their business (That's what they're for, after all.) and, if they want to feature a certain product or a special sale, just pop a classified.

If a buck and a half is cutting too deep into the profits, then they are running too close to the bone and it won't matter after awhile anyway.

they can adjust the prices to cover the cost if necessary but, if the ad nets 10 sales, that's only 15 cents per unit and if that cuts too deep, they really need to get a day job...and maybe a night job too. At any rate they shouldn't be selling things.

For a business, anyway, the idea is to make a profit.

For an individual, if they are just trying to get rid of some things, then the buck and a half is a bargain. They won't get that rate in the newspaper, that's for sure.

The folks that it is going to hurt though are the ones who like to swap and trade for fun. There is a lot of that going on here and I think that this wil put a damper on all but the hard core traders.

I don't think people realize just how much circulation there is out there and I expect a lot of that will move to other forums. That will be a loss here as it is sometimes fun to watch some of the knives pass from hand to hand.

Knowing the resoursefulness of most of the people out here though, I think many of them will find a way around it

Traders will still trade and swappers will still swap. It may not be as visable or watchable but it will be there.

All in all, it's not a bad idea. It sould work.

One question, though:

Is 1SKS going to have to pay for their classified ads too or, since they own the site, are they going to have unlimited access for free? HMMM?

Could there be a bump in the "level field"???




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Dennis Wright
("Have a knife day!")

(NSTBFCM)
 
John - Yes, we installed the classifieds 30 days ago and have been troubleshooting / testing ever since.

The original intention was to only have the Classifieds for the Dealers, and to keep the individuals forum open.

Unfortunately, given the problems that lead to the "There's a problem" post, it seemed like a smarter idea to just keep things simple and do it all through the classifieds section. I mean, how would keeping the individual forum stop what's going on right now? Would it suddenly make things more equitable for the dealers? Would it offer a better solution for the suppliers?

As a result, making everyone use the classifieds seemed like a no brainer, and when I couldn't find any ideas from you guys that offered a better chance for success (moderators was a no go guys, I think we all agree), we decided that hey, maybe we should do this for everyone.

AFAIK it's still the best choice we have.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Dennis, you are about the last person I expected to support this and have a kind word for it, but I appreciate your honesty.

As far as 1SKS having to pay, until this site actually pays for itself (which it isn't doing yet), I think that the $30,000 we've already paid in software, hardware, hosting, and bandwidth (and remember, that doesn't include manhours), kind of gives 1SKS a break from having to pay per ad, wouldn't you say?

Of course, if any of you dealers wants to help split the manpower and operating costs with us, we'll be more than happy to give you a break on charging for ads....

You guys brought up a great point though... the Wanted Category in the classifieds is already free... do you think that we should ad a Trade Category as well (and allow free or low rate posting to that)? I trust that you guys will police it and alert us if anyone is trying to Trade a new knife for for some green, rectangular pieces of paper....

That would solve the trading problem, right?

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here


[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 05-24-2000).]
 
Spark, way back in there somewhere there were 2 very quick replies, thanks
smile.gif
 
quote:
Savitar - thus far the costs have been over $30,000 just for keeping this site open for the past 2 years. Software, Server, Bandwidth, Rackspace, it all ads up, and that doesn't count the manhour costs.
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My comments about the listbots and egroups was directed to just this...
Each member could send a FREE digest to everyone subscribed, no matter if they were a dealer or not, each day. No cost for T1 connections, servers, administrators, even a member of the group could be a moderator...

You could SAVE $15K a year, now how many $1.49 adverts would you have to sell to do that!

Unless your motives are not as altruistic as they appear....

As far as a full inbox that hasn't happened with the 8 egroups I belong to, (a digest every day; recumbent bicycle for sale, tricycle discussion, recumbent discussion, Human powered boat discussion, to name a few, and the 6 that my wife subscribes to... (it's that evelyn wood speed reading course)....
 
The main reason, and a lot of times only reason, I came to the forums is the For Sale sections. Not to sell but to buy usually. It's a shame that you felt you needed to change the format though I believe that the decision was already made and the "abuse" post in the For Sale section was a diversion. If you didnt purchase new software you would not need to cover it's costs. It's not to easy to read now, actually it's a pain in the ass and I have a 19" screen. Do you honestly think that $1.49 an add will dramaticlly effect the bottom line. I hope it does but the attitude at this site is becoming more harsh and unfriendly as the months go by, not what it once was. Just my $.02. Oh well, it's not my site, I don't pay for it and you can do as you please. Good luck w/ your venture I wish you success.
 
Spark and Mike,
You should run this site for free, and devote all your time to making us happy. After all, what are the needs of the two of you compared to the wants of all of us. Who cares if you spend yourselves into the poorhouse, as long as we're not inconvienienced. Who cares is you're up at 3:00a.m. working on the system and answering our complaints, as long as we can try to profit from your work. Afterall, this site is for us.
Dave


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Sometimes, adequacy can be a sign of genius.
 
Statement retracted with sincere and humble apologies.

Still posting, still buying and possibly selling.

Viva La BFC!

Tony

[This message has been edited by badpenny (edited 05-25-2000).]
 
After my ex-wife I can't get anyone to give me A credit card..
frown.gif
oh well..that sucks!
Brian Teel

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AKTI# A000991
 
Maybe I don't have a right to post about this situation since I have only bought 1 knife through BF and mostly just read and learn as you can tell by my very few posts.

Dealers and Individuals alike, I don't have any problem at all with adding the dollar or two on top of the price or trade to cover the ad. Just ask for it from the buyer and you will probably get it at least once in a while. Here in SD I pay a 6%sales tax if I buy from a store and we ain't got many knife stores in South Dakota. I buy in an antique mall and I'm paying for that dealers rental, I sell in the same mall and I'm paying rental and commission (10%).
Why can't trades work the same way? I don't have a problem sending along the 1 or 2 dollars with the swapped knife to help cover the cost of the CONVENIENCE of this site. Also, we all know that once contact is made through a paid ad there is nothing at all to stop you (or me) from doing future deals with the same individual completely separate from the BF classifieds.

DaveJ

 
Hi Sparc,

I've looked through my FS/FT posts on the BF and must say that most times I've had no luck and nobody bought the knife that I was offering even though the price seemed to be comparable or less then what I've seen asked by others.
If I have to pay money for each add I would have to increase my price for the knife each time I would repost it, this would make it even more unsellable.
Outside US BF members will probably not be putting many FS/FT posts on the forum anymore.
Remember e.g. for me a Dollar is about 2.5 Guilders. I mean if I can buy a bread in Holland for 3 Guilders I pay for the same bread in the USA also 3 Dollars but effectively those 3 Dollars are 7.5 guilders for me. so for $3 I could get 3 loafs of bread in Holland.
A Spyderco Starmate costs $190 over here!

Enough said, it's hard to try to explain for me in Eglish I only won't be putting anything on the FS/FT board anymore after the new system gets up
frown.gif
.

Best regards,

Bagheera

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I think that the price is more than reasonable. I sell classified advertising in trade magazines for a living, and let me tell you, this price is nothing compared to what we charge. The price for a simple word ad is $2.25 per word with a 20 word minimum! some simple classified display ads run as much as $3000! I think that a $1.50-$5.00 is very reasonable for an ad. I think that one thing that may happen is some buyers may pick up the cost of the ad. Lets say that you're offering a used Large Sebenza for $250. I think that many buyers may be willing to pay an extra $5.00 plus shipping to get such a good deal on a great knife. Or sellers can price their blades accordingly. It all has to do with how much money you feel you need for the piece. You can always figure your ad price into the asking price. If the item is already priced to sell below retail, then I don't think that an extra $5.00 or so is going to make or break the deal. Just my thoughts.
smile.gif
 
Hi, I'm back, and boy how this thread has grown overnight.

I have read EVERY comment here and while some points are valid, the posts about "starting a new group" or "a good thing coming to an end" are absolutely idiotic.

If you want to start your own group, by all means go right ahead. Do you really think that you will get the number of top quality, world known makers (along with their vast knowledge) and manufacturer's to follow you? I think not.

And as far as "a good thing coming to an end", no one said that you have to pay to post in the regular forums, you only pay to sell your knives. If you have a problem with this, then don't sell any knives, and enjoy the rest of the information that you can gather from the rest of the site. But in any case, GROW UP.

Someone has to pay for the site to operate, and if anyone has a problem with paying $1 to sell their knives, then I say that's just too bad.

I will however say that paying for and ad to TRADE a knife should not be required. There is no money being made on a trade(of equal value anyway), and should be considered the same as a wanted ad. Spark eluded to the non-payment for trades option a few posts up and I feel that would be the right thing to do.



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C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "
 
I'm writing this as a buyer, not seller. Once I get my sweaty palms on a knife, I just can't seem to part with it, good or bad. If anyone I buy a knife from in the future wants to charge me an extra buck, feel free. Everything I've got here has been a good deal anyhow. Good luck, Spark and Mike. I hope this works out for all involved. Many thanks for all the work and expense you've put out.
smile.gif
 
This reminds me of the old story "Everyday for 5 years Dave gave Tom a $50 bill to spend. Then one day Dave could no longer afford to give away the money. The first thing Tom said was wheres my money assh&le. I can't believe that people here are even making an issue out of this. Savitor why don't you bankroll a new web site for knives and then you could do all sorts of great free things for all the people who register. Then when the day comes when it is no longer feasible for you to run we can then call you an assh*le.
Bob
 
I'm sure I'll be called an assh*le for this by some, but J. Hollister nailed it Spark. And I agree with others, that the money is not a real curly puller. It's just that I'm new to all this and one (1) of the things that attracted me to this particular forum is the constant reference to, HONOR, INTEGRITY, COMMUNITY and all the other things that make a good community and desirable place to visit. It seemed to be a family (admittedly, somewhat dysfunctional at time but a family none the less). Take for instance the GB&U discussion, how often has the group run to someone's assistance because they were getting a raw deal. You don't see that behavior on eBay. And I think it's a goner here in a few short month's.

It's your ball game and you absolutely can run it any way you see fit. But the timeline doesn't correlate. I smell urine, and it isn't raining here but my leg is definetly getting wet…… Sometimes it's not what you do, it's how you do it. I can't help but feel this has been a done deal for at least a few months (See John Holister's timeline) and you were just waiting for the right opportunity to implement the plan. Just MHO.

I own my own business, as well as interest in an Internet Service Provider company in 7 different cities, so I can relate the cost of operating your site. I definitely have no problem with you making money for your tireless efforts. There are tremendous personal and financial benefits that I won't even go into by having access to a T-1 (or in our case T-3's) line. None of my ventures would I do for free. But I think, had this whole thing been done a little more up front, and not from the "I'm not buying it" post, you would have had a lot less headaches. And the reasoning you gave been a lot more believable. It does bring your credibility into question.

How many times have WE ALL sat over a cup of coffee, or in a small group and complained about government, taking away our rights to carry firearms or blades, because of a few psycho's who get media coverage?? You have picked up that mindset here and said, (I'll paraphrase)" a few of you are taking advantage of my system and my good nature, so all of you are going to start paying for it". If this truly was a problem, why not simply say, zero tolerance on the abuse issue and boot the offenders?? I simply think that was a smoke screen to implement your agenda to turn the forums into a for profit venture (which I truly don't object too).

Spark, I just wish you had given the forum visitors a little more credit for being intelligent people, and not the sheep our government takes us for. You would have gotten a lot more support, and a lot more respect. I can tolerate being strung along, just don't think I'm too stupid to know what is going on. I'm with badpenny. I was looking for a friendly, community minded forum when I stumbled into the bladeforum's. If I want harsh commercialism, I'll do my business on eBay or another similar knife auction site (money is not the issue).

Now, I just kind of feel like I the playground bully pointed to the ceiling and kicked me in the nads. I'm not upset with the bully, I'm upset at myself for being dumb enough to buy into it for the moment! If I'm not happy, or I feel slighted, I'll vote with my feet and go somewhere else…….. I just don't feel "at home" here anymore.

"Wait for me BadPenny, I'm right behind you"!!! Crap, where are we going???


[This message has been edited by Maxon (edited 05-26-2000).]
 
Spark;
The solution you have settled on seems reasonable. A buck or two here or there isn't going to break me. The price is cheap for the knowledge I have gained here. Having said that, I'll be staying around but I think Maxon's point is well made.


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The thorn stands to defend the Rose, yet it is peaceful and does not seek conflict
 
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