IMPORTANT: New Classifieds Section, and the For Sale Forums

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savitar,

you been here only since march and all you can do is whine?? bet a clue pal, how many things in life are FREE?

instead of all your whining, why dont you go start your FREE email group and your own FREE forums and shut the h*ll up?
biggrin.gif
lets see, with like 7,000,000 hits per month how fast and FREE would your email be?

i bet you eat lunch at the FREE lunch counter, eh?

like the saying goes, you dont like the service here.....theres the door
tongue.gif
i dont see anyone holding a gun to your head to pay diddly here!
 
WOW, I am glad I went to bed early, (2AM).

What needs to be realized and understood is that everything we are doing here is relatively new and has never been done before. I try to learn from my mistakes but the problem is I have to make them first to be able to learn from them. I would much rather learn from the mistakes of others and in this area I have learned much in the last few months. So the following is a synopsis of what is and what will be going on here.

First I lost a huge source of income last year and early this year. I was making about $12K a month and I had no problem paying for this site out of pocket. I looked for ways to break even at least but that never happened. The site grew and we were forced to make decisions and I took on the added cost of maintaining the site on my own. In January several things happened that can not be discussed in public. In a meeting with my CPA I was forced to make a decision and I had to look at BladeForums in a different light. Basically what it amounted to was BFC has to be looked at as a business since I was obviously having to pay the bills using WOW checks and not my own money anymore.

The tangibles are easy to figure out. Server cost, T-1, rack and so on. The intangibles are not so easy but I was forced to apply rule of thumb accounting to figure out just how much time Spark and I put into keeping this site running smooth and when that was done I decided enough is enough.

The analogy has been given that urine is running down people legs. Well here is similar analogy, I have to "pee or get off the pot".

So pee I shall, but I assure you that it will not be on your legs as my aim is fairly good
smile.gif


I have the full intention of making money off this site now, period. I will never charge a member to post or read in what we will now call the "information" areas. By the time you read this the auction software will be up and running and the classifieds have all ready launched. These are the only 2 money making software programs I have in place at the moment other than 1SKS.

For those of you who think we have been planning this for months, you are dead wrong. I can post the checks and the credit card bills if you like to prove that all of this was done in the last 45 days or so and another quick call to Missy at Blade and you will see I slipped the ad actually past the deadline for the Blade Show issue. BTW that issue will feature our ad for the Forums, the classifieds and the auction.

If I can make enough money then the level of service we are able to provide will increase. I have to start making money before I can put more into this site. The auction software and the classifieds cost over $20K and that figure does not include the many hours it has taken to put this together.

My vision is to make this site the place for all knife nuts, makers, manufacturers, dealers and casual sellers to come together in one convenient simple package.

The point was made that people are not so upset with what we have done, but rather how we have announced it and implemented it. Your right, I am wrong, and that is my fault. That is a problem I have always had and I guess I always will. Maybe one day I will be able to hire someone less arrogant than Spark and more politically correct than myself to perform that task but for right now it is just Spark and me running this show. We may not be very tactful at times but we do get the job done and the result is the world's largest, busiest and most respected knife related web site, bar none.

I would love to make the selling of knives on this site a free option but I simply can't. Maybe a knife loving millionaire will read this and offer to pay Spark and myself to run it and we can then do that. Until then the mailman will still come to my door daily with envelopes stuffed with bills rather than cash. I get sick of writing these posts about how much this place costs to run and I am sure you are all sick of reading them. I had no idea nearly 2 years ago that this site would generate enough traffic to use 50% of a T-1 and a peak of 80%!

What I am doing is ensuring the future of this site. To do so I must now run it as a business and move all of this crap behind the scenes for you guys so you don't have to read about it. The On-line magazine was a good idea but I have no money to pay legitimate writers and let's face, I can't write worth a ****. Now I have this embarrassing January issue sitting there with no real way to keep it going. I have a few ideas but they cost $$$ and I simply don't have it.

We are not the first site to go through this situation. As I stated earlier I would rather learn from the mistakes of others than my own. DUH! So a little research yielded some rather interesting results. I was actually called an idiot by another person who said with my traffic I would be a fool to not make money off it. He further ridiculed me when I showed him that I actually allow other dealers to sell on my site and my mental state was brought into question. I would of hung up the phone but this guy has "been there, done that" and everyone of you know him and he is right. He is not in the knife business BTW. The difference is that I am not looking to make a million bucks off this site. I just want it to make some damn money to pay for itself and not be a money pit.

KnifeForums was brought up. Keep in mind that it was almost shut down when Earl could not afford it anymore. Jim took over and it seems to be doing better. I have talked to both Earl and Jim and whether you choose to believe this or not, I am a big reason why KnifeForums is still up. Jim asked for advice from me on the day he was to buy KnifeForums. I had the opportunity to make that deal go south or at least attempt to. I chose to help and will continue to do so as this is my nature.

All in all the future of this site depends on me and what I decide to do. The decisions are mine and mine alone. I have the best interest of the members in mind and I want this site to grow even beyond the scope it now holds. To do so has and will cause a lot of sacrifice on my part and that of Spark. No one said this will be easy and we fully expect to take some heat with some of the decisions we make. I learned a long time ago that the old saying "good things come to those who wait" is wrong. Good things come to those who sacrifice whatever it takes to achieve the goals they have set.

My goals are set, my direction is now clear, and I will "Do It, Do It Right, and I will Do It Right Now!".

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
Visit www.onestopknifeshop.com
All sales from 1 Stop Knife Shop help support this site!
 
Some good points here, but the most important one to me for people to think about is how long would you, me or anyone keep this site going by constantly supporting it with time and money.

Eventually this place has to support itself if it is going to survive at the level it has reached. When you or I have answered that question with honesty then maybe the gripes would carry some weight for me.

Has anyone ever tried giving your local newpaper a call and ask for free advertising on something they are selling?

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" I am continually reminded of the rewards of dealing with custom knife makers and the custom knife community." Jeff J.
 
Hey, Mike & Spark,

I'm thinking that perhaps the system of having dealers pay your classified rates is not fair to them or the best method. Basically, dealers need to advertise a lot -specials, discounts, etc. Charging a per knife, per week fee will limit their ability to do effective advertising. Perhaps you can offer unlimited postings to those who register with you as dealers, and agree to pay a fixed monthly fee with a six month commitment - perhaps the same as the banner fee. I think we all benefit by making it possible for dealers of all sizes to advertise in a cost effective way.

My 2 cents.

Canuck
 
Hey Savitar and the other malcontents:

Puhleeze, give it a friggin rest, will ya? You sound like my six-year old when he gets tired and whiny. What a ridiculous load or crap you are all unloading on Spark and Mike - consipracy theories, ulterior motives, bla bla bla my a$$.

Jeez. Get a life.

Spark: Thanks for maintaining your composure amid all the hysterics over your decision. Your replies are cogent and calm, not nearly the blasphemies and foul language I would have been using with these nincompoops by now. Some people just have too much dang time on their hands and not enough else to worry about.

You keep doing the good work, let the bad pennies take their toys and go away (sorry for the mixed metaphor), and things will ultimately subside.

Eric

[This message has been edited by Eric R (edited 05-24-2000).]
 
Ok, I give up and now will go away quitely...

I thought there were thinking people here,
I thought there were kind people here,
I was sadly mistaken...


Good job Sparks, you win, hope you make lots of money.

Bye everyone....don't need this....
 
Hey there Savitar,

I'd send ya a farewell e-mail, but notice you didn't post an address.
rolleyes.gif


With all the whiners leaving, maybe Tim Herman won't need that whine and cheese forum after all!
smile.gif


Ryan

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For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23


 
Savitar, hope you don't mind a few comments, but some of what you said in your last post actually made sense:

Ok, I give up and now will go away quitely...
we can only hope...

I thought there were thinking people here,
quite a few, actually. And most are probably still here
I thought there were kind people here,
lots and lots of kind people, especially Mike and Spark
I was sadly mistaken...
no kidding...


Good job Sparks, you win, hope you make lots of money.
I certainly agree with All of that too. Why do some of you expect a completely free place to conduct business? The forums are Much more than a place to buy and sell knives. If you don't understand that, or care about supporting this site by paying ridiculously low rates for ads, then those that have been suggesting that there are Other places to sell knives are right. Take your knives and your 'the world owes me a living' attitude somewhere else

Bye everyone....don't need this....
Bye savitar. we didn't need all of your whining either. But it certainly was entertaining.

Paracelsus, highly amused and entertained person.

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 05-24-2000).]
 
I don't like losing members for any reason. In the case above it appears to me that Savitar was trying to give us a possible solution without putting any real thought in it. No big deal, but to get mad and storm out when your told that your solution will not work is somewhat immature.

I appreciate the effort and the thought. This was not an overnight decision and the 2 ideas implemented are in no way an overnight solution either.

This is one large community and now we are able to help keep buyers and sellers all at one location making your trip here more complete. My plans are the if you want to buy or sell knives on the web, you can do it all right here. This is only the beggining.

For the dealers who post here and sell here you will find that I am doing many things that will actually help you. There is a reason why we show up so well in the search engines and you will all benefit from it.

It irritates me somewhat when I see someone post that they bought X-brand knife from Y dealer and that dealer does not support or even post here. I would rather see someone say, hey I got this kick ass knife from Cumberland at a great price or Patrick Ma is the coolest and Mark is awesome and so forth. What I don't like seeing is joe blow knives is the best and they get all my business. I know that you guys have found great dealers out there. It is just this is a community and the dealers really do help make this site run so please support them when you can.

For reference, we have them listed on the front page of our site. I need to add a couple but the next time you go shopping for a knife, please check these guys out first and if their price is a couple bucks or so higher remember that they support the site you guys love.

Just a little pet peeve of mine.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
Visit www.onestopknifeshop.com
All sales from 1 Stop Knife Shop help support this site!
 
I think this is fair...except the limit of only one knife model per post. Do it like a newspaper ad if your going to do it. The extra $1.50 is fair (I understand your point of view. Computers is my profession, so I've been there, done that, got a tshirt), but you need to make sure that it doesn't adversely impact the sellers. I love seeing ads from sellers having special sells for holidays or such with a list of knives and their discounted prices. I would not like to see that go. To sum up, I'm behind the price, just keep it user friendly. That's all I ask for. Mike, Spark, good luck.

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MISSISSIPPI STATE UNIVERSITY
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Fear the man that owns only one rifle,
he likely knows how to use it.
- Anonymous
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Ben Lee
Computer Science
AOL IM: MSURifleman
www2.netdoor.com/~rifleman
www2.msstate.edu/~brl2
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I had the opportunity to make that deal go south or at least attempt to.

Mike I think you give yourself too much credit...if anything I believe you tried to Discourage me from purchasing KnifeForums.com

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If you aren't living on the edge you are taking up too much space!
 
I had the opportunity to make that deal go south or at least attempt to.

Mike I think you give yourself too much credit...if anything I believe you tried to Discourage me from purchasing KnifeForums.com

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James Nowka
http://www.knifeforums.com

If you aren't living on the edge you are taking up too much space!
 
Just remember James, you would have paid $5000 for the site if we hadn't clued you in to what you were really getting and what was going on behind the scenes. So don't discount it too much, because we did square you away, and still do.

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here


[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 05-24-2000).]
 
Interesting...as I said You give yourself too much credit... I have ended up with 2 licenses...unlimited upgrades...forever, 2 URLs and a list of great moderators...The site would not be up and running, successfully, today...without your help...

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James Nowka
http://www.knifeforums.com

If you aren't living on the edge you are taking up too much space!
 
OK, in all honesty I haven't read every word of this long (real long) thread, but I have just few comments. I have been on knife related forums since the old Recdot knives. I don't know how many of us have been around that long, but it is certainly a minority. If you people would realize that Mike and Spark are the only reason that the internet knife community hasn't completely disintegrated, then maybe this wouldn't bother you so much. This is just a growing pain, nothing more. I personally don't care if Mike and Spark make money off this site, actually, I hope they do! They run the site, they have kept it up even when losing money, and if they want to run a real classified section with a (small) fee then that is their right. If you don't like it, just don't sell knives here.
 
The point was made that people are not so upset with what we have done, but rather how we have announced it and implemented it. Your right, I am wrong, and that is my fault. That is a problem I have always had and I guess I always will. Maybe one day I will be able to hire someone less arrogant than Spark and more politically correct than myself to perform that task but for right now it is just Spark and me running this show. We may not be very tactful at times but we do get the job done and the result is the world's largest, busiest and most respected knife related web site, bar none.

I guess my point was taken.

Jeesh . . I'm sorry I brought the whole "urine" issue up.
smile.gif


As I said before. I support the new "For Sale" forum. If it keeps Blade Forums up and running, it's a small price to pay.

We're probably going to start seeing knives selling for like $201.49.
smile.gif


Take care

John Hollister
 
In this world, almost nothing worth while is free. Change is necessary for growth. If something isn't changing, it's not growing. Nothing can stay in it's infancy forever.

I say if it's good for BladeForums, it's good for us. Most of us have been learning and gleaning from this forum and our contacts here for quite a while now. It's time to 'pay our dues', so to speak.

If you can't afford it, don't sell. If you have to add an extra couple of bucks to your price to make your profit margin, do it.

If Mike pays off the $25,000 (software), and makes it big with our buck-a-knife or so, good for him!

On with Change!

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Champions make improvements as fast as losers make excuses.
 
Wow! Has this thread taken off, or what?

Kevin, regardless of the difficulty you and I have communicating with each other, I still recognize the need to make this business work. You needn't be surprized when I or any other member who is genuinely interested in seeing you and Mike succeed here support something that makes as much sense as this move does.

As someone said waaaay back there, "it's a no-brainer". As long as you keep it even for everyone and don't try to differentiate between this group or that, it should work out fine.

Once you start breaking things up, though, it can get nasty again. One group will start crying favorititism or some such stuff and the next thing you know, right or wrong, accusations will be flying again.

Personally, I think that this is about as fair as you folks can make it. If everyone pays, then no one can claim priveledge or favorites. With a group like this, that's a big deal, I think.

As far as a "Trading Post" setup is concerned, I wasn't actually suggesting that you set one up as I believe that that may be more complicated than it's worth. You would end up with the same old stuff as before with some few cheaters screwing it up for most everyone else. Policing it would be a real bitch and probably wouldn't be very effective anyway. It pretty much has to be the same for everyone, traders and sellers alike.

As far as 1SKS having "prepaid" the fare for posting ads, I can see where you could reach that conclusion and $30K IS a lot of money.

However, I hope you don't really believe that we all think that there hasn't been, at least some return on all that money. If nothing else, it is a pretty good tax write-off and it was a good launching platform for 1SKS.

Still, I can't argue with the logic.

I can, however, question the wisdom of overusing that venue, if you choose to do so. From a business standpoint, why would I, or any other dealer, pay whatever miniscule amount to advertise our wares when you can immediately pop an ad right behind us offering the same thing at a lower price at no cost to you. With Zapship, or whatever you're using, that can go on indefinitely.

Taken one by one, the ads are inexpensive and reasonable. However, over time, the cost will ad up and given, say a year's time, they could be pretty significant. 1SKS, which is already damaging enough to most other dealers, would not have that expense. Dealers would have to budget and watch to be sure that the expense doesn't get out of hand while you would have unlimited access with no expense.

In the long run, I think that many dealers would see that as an unfair advantage and find another place to advertise, especially if it was done too often. The mere possibility of that happening is enough to keep some of us away already.

Casual sellers and individuals would be relatively unaffected by that tactic but dealers will suffer from it.

Business, being what it is though, is tough that way and dealers just have to manage it or move on. That's life. The thing is, though, why make it any tougher than it has to be unless you are out to blow the other dealers out of the water?

Competition, after all, is a major factor in any business and any one who doesn't know that doesn't belong in the arena. Some of the lions out there will chew one up and not even bother to spit him out.

Given all that already, it is astounding to me that there are any dealers who advertise here now. It's kind of like fishing for minnows in a shark tank.

In reality, I didn't really have a problem with what you tried to do the last time. My only contention was with the way you responded to those of us who had the temerity to disagree with some of your methods and with your characterization of some of us as parasites and leaches. That hasn't changed.

Good luck on this venture though. I hope it works.



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Dennis Wright
("Have a knife day!")

(NSTBFCM)
 
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