Incredible custom strider!

Okay - I've got the flu, my head feels like a brick and I'm probably not thinking clearly - but I am just not getting how expressing a dislike for this particular piece, or questioning the validity of the asking price amount to any kind of an attack on Josh. Did he make the knife? Did he set the price? I thought this was a custom Strider piece - so what involvement would Josh have had, exactly?

People who have been around here long enough know that discussions of value and pricing tend to go a bit beyond the facile statement: "Well, somebody paid X for it, so it's worth X dollars." There tends to be a bit more to it than that.

While it can perhaps be fairly described as unfortunate that a discussion of Mick's knives very often leads to a discussion of, shall we say, the ethical controversy that surrounds him, that would also be very much putting the cart before the horse.

Now, somebody asked a good question that hasn't been answered - about Mick's forge, the steels used, the heat treating etc. This piece was also descibed as "san mei" - I assume RL meant "san mai" - so I would like to hear more about the steel that forms the blade core and those which form the outer laminated layer. Has Mick been forging for long? What are his experiences with forging carbon steel blades? Has he done so, or has he gone straight to damascus? Does he do his own heat treatment? Surely not even the most strident Strider apologists would find those questions offensive? This thread is supposed to be about this knife - fine - let's talk about it.

Roger
 
RogerP said:
Okay - I've got the flu, my head feels like a brick and I'm probably not thinking clearly - but I am just not getting how expressing a dislike for this particular piece, or questioning the validity of the asking price amount to any kind of an attack on Josh. Did he make the knife? Did he set the price? I thought this was a custom Strider piece - so what involvement would Josh have had, exactly?

People who have been around here long enough know that discussions of value and pricing tend to go a bit beyond the facile statement: "Well, somebody paid X for it, so it's worth X dollars.".......While it can perhaps be fairly described as unfortunate that a discussion of Mick's knives very often leads to a discussion of, shall we say, the ethical controversy that surrounds him, that would also be very much putting the cart before the horse.

Now, somebody asked a good question that hasn't been answered - about Mick's forge, the steels used, the heat treating etc. This piece was also descibed as "san mei" - I assume RL meant "san mai" - so I would like to hear more about the steel that forms the blade core and those which form the outer laminated layer. Has Mick been forging for long? What are his experiences with forging carbon steel blades? Has he done so, or has he gone straight to damascus? Does he do his own heat treatment? Surely not even the most strident Strider apologists would find those questions offensive? This thread is supposed to be about this knife - fine - let's talk about it.

Roger
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Fair and reasonable, Roger.....BTW, I don't have a strong opinion on the knife itself one way or another...but, like you, am very interested in the steel.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I no fan of Strider, but my feeling is congrats to him for jumping into the market in a big way.

It's also my feeling that to some extent custom and art knives prices are set by looks and maker reputation rather then absolute quality. If better known custom makers aren't getting that kind of price then maybe they need to up their game.
 
To read STeven criticize Anthony for his bluntness is like an "out-of-the-body" experience. Very surreal. :D

For what it's worth, my thoughts are:

1) Esthetically, not my thing.

2) Pricing is obscene, but this is (barely) still a free country, and this is not the only or first piece whose pricing I don't understand, which is why I didn't buy it. I hope the buyer is a wealthy, highly individualistic collector who doesn't care one thing what others think. If so, more power to him. If it's a poor sucker who just swallowed the special ops hook & sinker, well... :(

3) The stress risers don't bother me for 2 reasons: that piece is presumably heat treated correctly, and it obviously didn't crack. Hopefully it was afterwards stress relieved. Second, this is a display piece. I will say that I would feel much more comfortable knowing that Strider uses hi- & low-temp salt pots and has a thorrough knowledge of metallurgy. If the owner is reading this, my advice is: do not use this piece for cutting.

4) I have to agree with Neil on one thing, which is that it is low class for one maker to criticize another's work in public. I have seen Larry Harley do that about Ed Fowler (whose work I don't particularly like but whose behavior is flawlessly gentlemanly) and Mike Lovett do that about Dietmar Kressler (whose work I do like), and it's crass.

JD
 
RogerP,

I've read a post from a Chinese-inspired bladesmith write that "san mei" is the Mandarin version of "san mai." Is it a few languages of nearby countries sounding similar or just internet hoopla? Dunno, but it worked for me.

I don't care if RL paid six trillion dollars or was paid to take the knife off Neil's hands - it wasn't money going out of or into my pocket. The knife is well made; the hammer marks seem to be left there intentionally to add a primal feeling; and it appears it will be a cornerstone in RL's collection. If there's a reason to say "well, I would've spent your money this way" to RL, I fail to see it. If he wanted a knife you wanted, don't you think that just maybe; maybe just this once; he would've bought that knife or knives you would rather own?
 
Joss said:
To read STeven criticize Anthony for his bluntness is like an "out-of-the-body" experience. Very surreal. :D

For what it's worth, my thoughts are:

1) Esthetically, not my thing.

2) Pricing is obscene, but this is (barely) still a free country, and this is not the only or first piece whose pricing I don't understand, which is why I didn't buy it. I hope the buyer is a wealthy, highly individualistic collector who doesn't care one thing what others think. If so, more power to him. If it's a poor sucker who just swallowed the special ops hook & sinker, well... :(

3) The stress risers don't bother me for 2 reasons: that piece is presumably heat treated correctly, and it obviously didn't crack. Hopefully it was afterwards stress relieved. Second, this is a display piece. I will say that I would feel much more comfortable knowing that Strider uses hi- & low-temp salt pots and has a thorrough knowledge of metallurgy. If the owner is reading this, my advice is: do not use this piece for cutting.

4) I have to agree with Neil on one thing, which is that it is low class for one maker to criticize another's work in public. I have seen Larry Harley do that about Ed Fowler (whose work I don't particularly like but whose behavior is flawlessly gentlemanly) and Mike Lovett do that about Dietmar Kressler (whose work I do like), and it's crass.

JD
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Joss, I'm not criticizing Anthony for his bluntness...at all. I am writing that what I "BLUNTLY" say on the Forums has a cost that many fellow Forumites don't have to pay-accountability, especially those that don't use their real names.

I don't like when makers openly criticize other makers, on one level.....but appreciate the honesty and bluntness on another level....as long as they are willing to be bluntly judged as they judge themselves...fair game, imo.

The portion of the quote that I bolded was well written, and mirrors my sentiments.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
thombrogan said:
RogerP,

I've read a post from a Chinese-inspired bladesmith write that "san mei" is the Mandarin version of "san mai." Is it a few languages of nearby countries sounding similar or just internet hoopla? Dunno, but it worked for me.

I don't care if RL paid six trillion dollars or was paid to take the knife off Neil's hands - it wasn't money going out of or into my pocket. The knife is well made; the hammer marks seem to be left there intentionally to add a primal feeling; and it appears it will be a cornerstone in RL's collection. If there's a reason to say "well, I would've spent your money this way" to RL, I fail to see it. If he wanted a knife you wanted, don't you think that just maybe; maybe just this once; he would've bought that knife or knives you would rather own?
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thom, thanks for your support..unfortunately I was not the one who bought it...just posted the pics of something i liked...but your points still stand.

RL
 
One maker criticizes another...that's called learning, apprenticeship.

One maker criticizes another...that's called being truthful about how a maker sees his art.

One maker criticizes another...is it crass? No way. Somebody's feelings may get hurt, and obviously the seller TNK doesn't like it because it can hurt his business, but makers can talk too.

One maker criticizes another...is it refreshing? Yes. Recently a carving knife was shown that had an obvious flaw, recessed screws. Only one collector bothered to ask and one smith criticized it. The maker freely admitted it was a f-up, ground the holes too deep. Lots of makers and collectors liked the piece, were they too ignorant or too polite to note the f-up?

Many times there are obvious flaws in knives that nobody has the guts to speak about. How will the maker ever get better? Do they just go on your "not to buy" list?

Chuck's had his share of tough criticism from makers on this forum...remember the screw vs. pin debate in the traditional forum? He took it like a man. I still won't buy no screwed together slipjoint. :)
 
RL said:
unfortunately I was not the one who bought it...just posted the pics of something i liked...
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Can certainly understand that. Maybe the current owner will know to look you up should the knife need a new home.

brownshoe said:
I still won't buy no screwed together slipjoint.
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That's my biggest complaint about Strider's slipjoints. Not only are they missing the backspring, but the handles are intentionally cut and bent to slap a thick slab of titanium under the blade to prevent you from closing it. Not good, Strider guys. Shape up or get out of the slipjoint business!



obligatory ;)
 
I also find it concerning that a guy, RL, makes an innocent post re a knife that he thinks is cool and it turns into a wholesale bashing of a knifemaker who none of you would ever have the balls to confront in person on this or any other issue.

Neil
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Neil,
You are making a lot of assumptions here. If you or anyone ever asked me in person what I thought of this knife at this price I would share my views completely.
Congrats on selling it. I would run out and buy a lottery ticket if I were you.
 
Those other Mick Strider knives look pretty darn good. The way the blade is ground doesn't appeal to me in a huge way, but I don't dislike the nightmare grind.
 
Jose Reyes said:
If another maker made this knife, who didn't make any military claims or asked for this price, it probably would not have recieved as much attention.
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I happen to understand why Strider knives are priced as high as they are. It's the same reason that Ernie Emerson's custom knives reached such high prices. The knives are in demand by a group of people that happen to really like Mick's knives. These people goble up everything Mick makes. With his knives being in such high demand, he can get prices that look to many others to be way too high.

If this knife was made by another maker, I would have considered the price to even more out of line than I do with it being a Mick Strider knife.
 
RL said:
btw, it is considered poor etiquette to compare makers as you did...
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I don't consider it poor etiquette to compare makers, but sometimes it is like comparing apples and oranges. The reasons behind why makers' knives are priced the way they are can be as different as night and day.
 
Personally, the one-off or custom Strider stuff screams "fantasy knife" to me a little too much. I'm not a fan of the "nightmare grind" and such. I know it takes talent, and I actually like the look of some of those deep hammer marks, but the grinds, handles, etc just seem a little too... mall ninja... for me, I guess.

As far as the price, as with all knives, they are worth whatever someone will pay for them, no?
 
Hi guys,
You can debate the styling or the engineering of a knife but the reality is that a knife is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. This knife sold for $4500, thus, it was worth $4500. Just because that statement is simple, does not make it facile. Will it be worth $4500 next week? Irrelevant.

Phillip :)
 
thombrogan said:
RogerP....

I don't care if RL paid six trillion dollars or was paid to take the knife off Neil's hands - it wasn't money going out of or into my pocket. The knife is well made; the hammer marks seem to be left there intentionally to add a primal feeling; and it appears it will be a cornerstone in RL's collection. If there's a reason to say "well, I would've spent your money this way" to RL, I fail to see it.
Click to expand...

Say which? Where did you get the idea this was RL's knife? For what it's worth, I wouldn't care if RL paid six trillion dollars for a special-ops tactical ice cream maker. That doesn't mean that discussion of the relative value of a six trillion dollar tactical ice cream maker is somehow verbotten.

thombrogan said:
If he wanted a knife you wanted, don't you think that just maybe; maybe just this once; he would've bought that knife or knives you would rather own?
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I'm just not following you here, at all. Could be the antibiotics.


Roger
 
So, none of the Strider faithful have any info on the blade steel itself? That's surprising.

Roger
 
I could not spend $4500 on any knife but if I could it would not be this one.

Not because I don't like it, I do. Because it's not my style of knife.
Great job grinding though!!
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I happen to understand why Strider knives are priced as high as they are. It's the same reason that Ernie Emerson's custom knives reached such high prices. The knives are in demand by a group of people that happen to really like Mick's knives. These people goble up everything Mick makes. With his knives being in such high demand, he can get prices that look to many others to be way too high.

If this knife was made by another maker, I would have considered the price to even more out of line than I do with it being a Mick Strider knife.
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Keith,

Good point. I'm a rabid fan too, just of other makers knives. To clarify my post a bit I meant the attention/responses this thread has recieved, moreso than just the knife itself.
 
notdos said:
Hi guys,
You can debate the styling or the engineering of a knife but the reality is that a knife is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. This knife sold for $4500, thus, it was worth $4500. Just because that statement is simple, does not make it facile. Will it be worth $4500 next week? Irrelevant.

Phillip :)
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I was wondering how long before someone was going to bring up the "the knife is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it" claim.
Simply not true IMO.

Just because a sportscar that consistently sells for $125,000 in LA or Miami will only bring $25,000 in Grundy Va. doesn't mean that the sportscar is only worth $25,000 no more than a sportscar that consistently sells for $25,000 is worth $50,000 just because an individual is willing to pay that to be the first one on his block to own one.

An object is not always worth what a single individual is will to pay for it. People overpay for items everyday.
 
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