Incredible custom strider!

striper28 said:
I can agree that sometimes patterning does compliment a knife, when it is done intentionally.
This doesn't look like it was done that way. Since he is making his own steel, he could have easily forged that mark out or even surface ground it out.

It's one thing to do it that way on purpose, it's another to leave it there.

Daniel Winkler does a fine job of doing it on purpose.

raspdam_bg.jpg
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Ahem...If you've done it on purpose, leaving it there is exactly the same thing...why do it by design and then remove it?

Unless logical thought doesn't apply to knifemaking?
 
thombrogan said:
Hi RogerP!....

Now if RL was into custom knives as an investor, the advice would be very sound. If he was into custom knives because the knives were either made solely for him or as a one of kind expression of a maker's talent and drive, it would be rude. Here, again, I'm making assumptions on RL's motivations. I'm also making assumptions that the tough love and alternatives suggested by others wasn't really needed based on the previous assumption that RL likes the knife for the way it looks and not for how it may rise or lower in resale value.

Hoping I was clearer this time around and that you feel better soon.
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Thank you for your well-wishes. Basically I think I just see it a bit differently in that I don't see where anyone was advising RL. The aesthetics of the knife were discussed. The functional aspects of the knife were discussed. The price of the knife was discussed. Different people had different views on all three aspects. It's a knife discussion forum. The question of whether "advice" was either sound or appropriate, from my perspective, doesn't really enter into it. Of course, there are many perspectives other than mine - I don't pretend to have all the answers.

But speaking of answers - those advocating that we stop bashing Mick and focus on the knife have been REAL quiet once questions were asked about the forging of the blade. Do you find that odd? I'd sure like to know more on the subject.

Roger

PS - You may well be right on the san mei / san mai issue - I just haven't heard the former term used before. I pointed it out because "san mai" generally refers to a laminated blade - and this one doesn't appear to be lmainated from the photos.
 
I see alot of what appears to be sour grapes in this thread, if it's not your money why would you even care how much the knife costs?

It seems like Mick has broken through some kind of glass ceiling that mere tac knife makers are not supposed to do.
 
Its more than sour grapes. Its like a disconnect with reality. Would you question any other 10-year full-time knifemakers' claim to forge their own damascus? Its ridiculous.
 
reholli said:
Ahem...If you've done it on purpose, leaving it there is exactly the same thing...why do it by design and then remove it?

Unless logical thought doesn't apply to knifemaking?
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The Winkler was obviously done by design, it shows a pattern. The knife in the OP seems to have a few stray hammer blows that went too deep. Is it bad enough that you need to throw the blade out and start all over or do you "just leave it there"?
 
Charles M said:
Its more than sour grapes. Its like a disconnect with reality. Would you question any other 10-year full-time knifemakers' claim to forge their own damascus? Its ridiculous.
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Probably just the ones that have made questionable claims regarding their military service.
 
RogerP said:
But speaking of answers - those advocating that we stop bashing Mick and focus on the knife have been REAL quiet once questions were asked about the forging of the blade. Do you find that odd? I'd sure like to know more on the subject.
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More info would surely be nice. Is the super thick blade two slabs of pattern-welded steel over a thin core of whom knows what? Is the edge different merely because its etching was removed from sharpening? Was the blade forged to shape and then cleaned up and given the deep hollow grinds or was the damascus forged and then shaped entirely through stock removal? Does the san mei even refer to the blade or to the leather, ivory, and steel of its handle?
 
I personally think it's pretty cool. :)

It's "outside the box" from what I would normally associate with Mick's work, and that is AT LEAST evidence of a broader spectrum of thinking and appreciation to knifemaking in general on Mick's part... which is always good! :)

I dig the texture. I think it's cool. I don't think it looks accidental or unfinished.... just some forging history. Texture is always touchy... it is always love/hate.

As far as price- I'd be elated if I could make a knife like that and sell it for that much ;) :) I don't know the long lasting effects something like that has on the knifemaking industry as a whole.... Or if it even does at all? But it seems to have been brought up in this thread. I really don't think it will affect my work, but I guess time will tell?

I am also very intrigued by STeven's newly emerging "kumbaya-ishness" ;) :p
 
Charles M said:
Would you question any other 10-year full-time knifemakers' claim to forge their own damascus?
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IF that 10-year full-time knifemaker had been a stock remover for 9 years and 6 months before he touched a hammer for the first time: yes, i'd question the maker's claim to forge his own damascus.

regards,
hans
 
brightred said:
IF that 10-year full-time knifemaker had been a stock remover for 9 years and 6 months before he touched a hammer for the first time: yes, i'd question the maker's claim to forge his own damascus.

regards,
hans
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Sounds a lot like hyperbole and hearsay to me
 
As a piece of art it is worth what people will pay for it. That's just the way art is. If you look at it as just a knife or cutting tool then it's not worth that price. Have you ever seen a painting that someone paid thousands of dollars for because it was made by a famous or trendy artist? It doesn't neccessarily mean that it is better than one made by an unknown artist who sells his work for a couple hundred. This Strider knife was clearly purchased by a collector for his collection. He didn't go out and say, "I need a cutting tool so I'll spend $4,500". He bought it because he thought it would be a nice addition to his collection and he likes Strider knives. So since this knife sold for that much then that's what it is worth as an art collector's knife.
 
raylaconico said:
As a piece of art it is worth what people will pay for it. That's just the way art is. If you look at it as just a knife or cutting tool then it's not worth that price. Have you ever seen a painting that someone paid thousands of dollars for because it was made by a famous or trendy artist? It doesn't neccessarily mean that it is better than one made by an unknown artist who sells his work for a couple hundred. This Strider knife was clearly purchased by a collector for his collection. He didn't go out and say, "I need a cutting tool so I'll spend $4,500". He bought it because he thought it would be a nice addition to his collection and he likes Strider knives. So since this knife sold for that much then that's what it is worth as an art collector's knife.
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exactly, this whole thread is pointless. A kife is worth what at least ONE person is willing to pay for it and in this case, it was $4,500 so that is what that knife was worth.

It isn't worth anything to me since I am not into art knives, however, there is a primal attraction to the knife and I do like the hammer marks on it, gives it character in a world where things tend to be so smooth and perfect.

As for the integrity of the knife, the assumption that those are stress risers is true, but then again every sharp transition you put on a knife is, so most art bowies have stress risers. If the blade was HT'd after such stress risers were made, the issue is not as big a deal as long as the transitions are smooth or on the surface of the flats only. Also with damascus, the crystaline structure is is not continuous, so a fracture is not likely to propagate as it would in a homogenous steel.
 
thombrogan said:
More info would surely be nice. Is the super thick blade two slabs of pattern-welded steel over a thin core of whom knows what? Is the edge different merely because its etching was removed from sharpening? Was the blade forged to shape and then cleaned up and given the deep hollow grinds or was the damascus forged and then shaped entirely through stock removal? Does the san mei even refer to the blade or to the leather, ivory, and steel of its handle?
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If you look at pictures of the knives, some show the spine. One can see these are not "san mai" damascus as most people call it. It looks nice, but not san mai. They don't look forged to shape, the pattern of the damascus isn't distorted, or squeezed to the tip for example.

I think "san mei damascus" is just a name they picked for the product. Perhaps they are not aware of what "san mai" means. The phrase "MAKERS SAN MEI DAMASCUS" is on all of the listings on the TNK website.
 
Jose Reyes said:
The Winkler was obviously done by design, it shows a pattern. The knife in the OP seems to have a few stray hammer blows that went too deep. Is it bad enough that you need to throw the blade out and start all over or do you "just leave it there"?
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I understand that perfectly...the way striper28 worded his claim implied there'd be occasion to mark a blade deliberately and then not leave the marks there...

What you're saying is that his meaning was:

It's one thing to do it that way on purpose, it's another to leave it there after doing it inadvertantly.

And that I agree with! Just read a little too literally without taking in the full context...thanks for clarifying.
 
Joss said:
To read STeven criticize Anthony for his bluntness is like an "out-of-the-body" experience. Very surreal. :D

For what it's worth, my thoughts are:

1) Esthetically, not my thing.

2) Pricing is obscene, but this is (barely) still a free country, and this is not the only or first piece whose pricing I don't understand, which is why I didn't buy it. I hope the buyer is a wealthy, highly individualistic collector who doesn't care one thing what others think. If so, more power to him. If it's a poor sucker who just swallowed the special ops hook & sinker, well... :(

3) The stress risers don't bother me for 2 reasons: that piece is presumably heat treated correctly, and it obviously didn't crack. Hopefully it was afterwards stress relieved. Second, this is a display piece. I will say that I would feel much more comfortable knowing that Strider uses hi- & low-temp salt pots and has a thorrough knowledge of metallurgy. If the owner is reading this, my advice is: do not use this piece for cutting.

4) I have to agree with Neil on one thing, which is that it is low class for one maker to criticize another's work in public. I have seen Larry Harley do that about Ed Fowler (whose work I don't particularly like but whose behavior is flawlessly gentlemanly) and Mike Lovett do that about Dietmar Kressler (whose work I do like), and it's crass.

JD
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Point 4 really made me think. Maybe some knifemakers like Mick aren't afforded the same type of treatment as other guys because of their somewhat "colorful" history or personality, but i can tell you from personal experience that I was present for one of these "slamfests" of which you speak and it made me quite uncomfortable even though the person being disparaged was not there......and it was not just one person doing it. I admit that I made some snide remarks about Mick's work a while back and in retrospect, that was not something that I should have done, nor will i do it in the future to him or any other maker unless we are talking about a complete scam. I don't care for a lot of his stuff stylistically, but that is a matter of personal taste. As for prices, they seem to be rather high, but wouldn't all of us like to be able to demand that kind of money for our stuff? :D
 
Charles M said:
Sounds a lot like hyperbole and hearsay to me
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When the maker has just about zero credibility in matters concerning the truth, these discussions will happen.

As an anonymous "Burger," there is no way that piece demands, let alone commands, $4500.00
 
To answer questions about weather or not Mick forged this damascus I can answer yes.About 2 years ago he purchased a well known damascus knife makers tools and everything else in his shop to make damascus and spent the next year learning from him how to make damascus.Then Mick moved everything to his shop and set it up I have the first damascus knife that Mick ever made (about ayear and a half ago). As far as the process goes anyone wondering that can ask Mick himself. Mick will be at blade show to answer any questions and verry much likes talking about knife making and is allways open to share his expierences.(I forgot to addd who the damasscus knife maker is it is Jim Furgerson) I somehow have a feeling that this would come up too.
 
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