INFI??? Second thoughts.

[Zombie Zeke]

One more thought here, I am in the market for a 7" Busse knife and I would buy the Hellrazor or an ASH or an Outlaw etc... in a minute if it were offered at a resonable (non secondary, price gouged) price.

Hence the negative feel on my part about Busse sales practices.

 

[Ankerson]

One more thought here, I am in the market for a 7" Busse knife and I would buy the Hellrazor or an ASH or an Outlaw etc... in a minute if it were offered at a resonable (non secondary, price gouged) price.

Hence the negative feel on my part about Busse sales practices.

Put a thread in the Wanted to buy forum and see if you get any feedback.

You might.

 

[thombrogan]

Where are all you guys that don't believe in cryo now?

Depends on what you mean by that.

I believe some alloys need cryo to convert retained austenite to martensite and maybe some cementite - and that's magic enough - but haven't been able to find or be convinced that it does anything else and this is after a lot of google-fu and conversations with the owner of a cryogenic processing facility.

So I believe it's needed for alloys that retain unacceptable levels of austenite after quench, but nothing more.

Oprah gives away...

Comparing Jerry to Oprah?! That's cold.

Jerry gave us INFI in myriad shapes and sizes and his wife and his brother and sister-in-law have done similar. Oprah gave us Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz.

Oprah owes us choppers with tough steels.

 

[230grains]

I have two Busses. A safe queen and a user. The user is a FBMLE. Great knife, but it has a fairly thick grind. I expect I can chop with it into pretty much anything fibrous without damaging the edge. So far I have seen no edge deformation and it is still very sharp. (Not re-sharpened yet.)

However, it appears that thinner ground Busses-- like the Sarsquatch-- do not survive heavy duty chopping so well.

There appears to be more than a few threads concerning thinner ground Busses and edge damage from serious use.

The lateral strength of the Busses is legendary. But I wonder about edge strength with thinner grinds.

Anyone else been wondering about this lately?

If you're talking about my sarsquatch... the edge was thin to begin with and held up well. I wanted to see the limits on how thin I could grind it and have it not deform. I found that limit.

Busses will take a lot of abuse, more so than any other knife i've used. They can take a thin edge as well, BUT don't try and chop up frozen wood with a scalpel edge.

Even though I fixed the damage, Jerry said to send it in, so i'm going to.

 

[230grains]

One more thought here, I am in the market for a 7" Busse knife and I would buy the Hellrazor or an ASH or an Outlaw etc... in a minute if it were offered at a resonable (non secondary, price gouged) price.

Hence the negative feel on my part about Busse sales practices.

Busse sales practices are what they are. They could make a few knives (Like rat cutlery) and always have them up, or they could release somewhat limited runs and continue to make new designs. I prefer the latter. There's only so many of one model i'd be willing to buy. You can find any of those knives at a relatively good price still on the exchange, or at a show. Post a WTB add.

 

[OldPhysics]

One more thought here, I am in the market for a 7" Busse knife and I would buy the Hellrazor or an ASH or an Outlaw etc... in a minute if it were offered at a resonable (non secondary, price gouged) price.

Hence the negative feel on my part about Busse sales practices.

I'd say the high secondary prices are more the fault of we Busse fans ... and not so much Jerry's fault.

If you really want a mid-sized Busse, I've no doubt someone will offer to help you.:thumbup:

 

[ginshun]

I am far from a Busse expert, as the only one that I own is a Game Warden. Not terribly representative of the big choppers that Busse is famous for.

For what its worth though, it gets super sharp, stays that way, and when it finally does dull, it sharpens really easily. Thats a good steel in my book.

The fact that (if I ever wanted to, which is doubtful) I could easily turn around and sell the knife for the same price I bought it for is nice too.

I'm not a fanatic by any means, but I would recommend a Busse to anyone.

 

[Balislinger]

I don't think Busse are overpriced for what you get in terms of the steel properties, knife build quality, design, materials, and the unparalleled warranty. A mid-size Busse will set you back about $400. That's not bad for a hard use knife of great quality that will last a lifetime of use. Randalls are more, as are most customs.

 

[Zombie Zeke]

Put a thread in the Wanted to buy forum and see if you get any feedback.

You might.

No need to, the target audience is already here.

Cheers, Have a good one :thumbup:

 

[CarpScot]

You can read all of the reviews you want, look at charts, watch videos and overboard destruction tests, but the only real way to know if a steel is right for what you will use it for (not just INFI) is to try it yourself.

:thumbup:

Another thing to consider about Busse knives is that they often feel very different in hand than other brands. You may have to hold one before you can say whether or not they are a fit for you.

 

[13ninjas]

The heat treat on INFI is not a secret or a mystery. Jerry has posted about the process several times in answering questions on the forum. And, yes, it's about a good heat treat as you can get, and as you know, heat treat makes a bigger difference than type of steel. Not just a good heat treat, but how the heat treat is matched to the steel. Busse just does a great job with it. The specs of INFI steel are also not a secret, and I see someone has already posted them in this thread. INFI is cool because although it is not a stainless steel it does not rust easily, and because it has a crazy ability to be both hard (58-60 Rc) and soft (edge tends to roll not chip, when abused, making sharpening easier). They heat treat INFI to a whopping 950 degrees, and employ a 3-day multi-cycle dry cryogenic treatment. The cryogenics improves the steel, and Busse does it the right way. Below is Jerry expounding on their heat treat method:

"Busse has been doing cryo since the early 1980's. Back then it was a very primitive process involving an old cooler, dry ice and about a gallon of acetone. Process: pack the blades in dry ice, pour the acetone over the ice to speed the evaporation process, and hit somewhere around the -190 degree mark. Do a normalizing temper (approx. 350 - 450) and voila! Prehistoric Cryo!

In the late eighties we began the employment of a deep cryo treatment (-300/320 degrees) which was done in a dry, controlled, atmosphere. This process allows us to take our blades down to temp. over the course of 10 hours hold them at temp. (-300 degrees) for approx 50 hours, and then bring them back up to room temp. over the course of the next 10 hours at which point they receive 3 more, individualized, oven tempers. This is the same process that we employ to this day.

Some makers are out there just plunging their blades into liquid nitrogen which can shock the steel so dramatically that microscopic cracks and fissures can form that could cause massive blade failure in the field under heavy and/or light use. That is why it is crucial that the blades be cooled slowly and brought back to room temperature slowly and then normalized with a few oven tempers for stress relief.

Of course there are also some makers that I know of who claim to employ cryogenics because they stick their knives in the freezer over night. Scary! Alway ask the maker to give as much detail of his cryo process as possible.

Knowledge is power! Arm yourself!

Yours in Nuclear Cryogenics,

Jerry Busse"

Nice post. Do you know if Scrap Yard and Swamp Rat treat their SR-77 and SR-101 in a similar fashion?

 

[13ninjas]

:thumbup:

Another thing to consider about Busse knives is that they often feel very different in hand than other brands. You will have to hold one before you can say whether or not they fit you.

Very true. After holding different models I find that the normal shaped (not mudder) Res-C handles fit in my hand and feel the best. Unfortunately Busse doesn't use this anymore. Most Scrap Yards have this handle and a few older Swamp Rats, but besides the old Busse Basics and Euro's are there any others w/ Res-C handles?

I would LOVE to have a piece of infi with non-mudder Res-C grips!!!

Also, anyone comment on M-INFI? I was wanting to trade for a couple of res-c busse's but I don't know much about M-INFI and was skeptical. I guess it still has the awesome treating process. ?

 

[Lycosa]

I used to be a chef. I'm glad that stint is over. I wish I had a Busse NICK back in the day. No other steel has kept an edge longer than INFI. Becut Steel is close though.

 

[resinguy]

Very true. After holding different models I find that the normal shaped (not mudder) Res-C handles fit in my hand and feel the best. Unfortunately Busse doesn't use this anymore. Most Scrap Yards have this handle and a few older Swamp Rats, but besides the old Busse Basics and Euro's are there any others w/ Res-C handles?

I would LOVE to have a piece of infi with non-mudder Res-C grips!!!

Also, anyone comment on M-INFI? I was wanting to trade for a couple of res-c busse's but I don't know much about M-INFI and was skeptical. I guess it still has the awesome treating process. ?

You will not be dissappointed with Mod-INFI. I have no doubt that the HT on that steel maximized the available performance.

 

[2brothers]

A lot of people are saying Busse is overpriced, are they?

Does anyone know how much Jerry is paying for INFI? How much is rent/mortgage, employee salaries/benefits, cost of all the equipment used to make the knives? Without knowing all this, it is hard to say if they are truly overpriced, but easy to say if all your doing is comparing them to another brand name.

Or they're upset because they can't afford them. So that makes them bad and all hyped up.

 

[Ankerson]

Or they're upset because they can't afford them. So that makes them bad and all hyped up.

That does have a lot to do with it, jealousy, mad because they can't afford them etc.

People tend to badmouth things they can't afford to buy or make accuses that other items are just as good as......

It's just a simple case of sour grapes and jealousy.

They can state all the different reasons they want, but that's what it comes down to in the end, it's so transparent it's pathetic.

Busses are not that expensive when you buy them when they are available from Busse.

It's simple all people have to do is pay attention to the Busse Forum and they would know when the new models are coming and what current models are available etc, other words make an effort instead of complaining when they see something they want on the For Sale forum that they could have got for 1/2 the price when it was released.

If they can dwell here in General then it's just a few clicks to the Busse forum.

All of us over in the Busse Forum would be more than happy to help.

If you order a current model run when it's 1st released you have 8 to 14 weeks before it's done and the way Busse offers models one can afford to get the current releases if they want to.

 

[Ken44]

One more thought here,


I am in the market for a 7" Busse knife and I would buy the Hellrazor or an ASH or an Outlaw etc... in a minute if it were offered at a resonable (non secondary, price gouged) price.

Hence the negative feel on my part about Busse sales practices.

If you really want an Outlaw I know for a fact that you can get an SFNO LE at what it cost to get from Busse, and the shipping price to you.
That would leave the seller making no profit, and many sell that way in most all of there threads.

Just send me an email and I'll help you get your Busse without anyone making a profit.

 

[Volk]

One more thought here, I am in the market for a 7" Busse knife and I would buy the Hellrazor or an ASH or an Outlaw etc... in a minute if it were offered at a resonable (non secondary, price gouged) price.

Hence the negative feel on my part about Busse sales practices.

Before you commit to any of those offers you must have gotten, Jerry posted a sneak peak of Gemini 7 which is said to come out in two weeks. I'm waiting on it, might have to sell my ASH to get it, but I'll definably buy it.

Also Jerry mentioned he will have small, medium and large blades avaliable through the store all the time soon.

 

[Last Visible Canary]

you know, it's not as much of a mystery as people make it out to be. The low carbon, the nitrogen, the chromium to carbon ratio, it all makes sense looking at the performance. Given, you have to get some and test it yourself to judge how it handles stress and how it holds an edge, it's not a mystery steel.

trying to find the "correct" heat treatment to make 52100, a2, or s7 be "as hard as possible while retaining high maleability" is just as difficult to find as info on infi. There are a lot of heat treat recipe's for each of those steels, but few that are specific to that exact quality, and even fewer will actually net you the results.

out of infi you'll get something that is high hardness but retains high levels of maleability, it will roll mash and dent where other steels at the same hardness chip or break outright. However, that maleability will make it seem soft and mooshy compared to other steels in a really thin cross sections and edges. It's not a great steel for ultra thin slicers, but it's fantastic for ultra-abuse beaters. it's a very happy medium, but it isn't magic when it comes to the qualities most people look for in ultra-hard ultra-high wear resistant steels.

 

[Raining]

Actually, the prices on the secondary market are much more reasonable now than even a couple years ago. The economy? More knives available from Busse? Who knows.

I do know that I've sold the majority of my Busse knives below cost from the factory (and in some cases WAY below cost - probably due to more sellers and perhaps my own impatience to get something sold ) and I know there are many others who sell on the exchange at or below cost.

Part of the fun in finding the "perfect" knife is the hunt - at least it is for me. :thumbup: