Inflated prices

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Yonose said:
Wouldn’t doing so risk that the reviewer’s integrity (as a reviewer) be called into question? I would call it self-promotion at least.
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Yeah, I suppose it could challenge their integrity. I'm not sure what you mean by self-promotion though.
 
Some thoughts on this:

1. I don't have a problem with flippers. If I don't like the price, I don't buy. If enough people don't like the price, the price goes down, or the knife doesn't sell.
2. People have a right to dispose of their property as they see fit. This is a hobby. No one actually needs our expensive knives. No one will actually suffer because they weren't able to get the latest Paramilitary 2 sprint or exclusive at retail price. No one has a right to demand that someone sell them a knife they want at a price they are willing to pay. There is certainly no obligation for someone to sell the knife they were lucky or dedicated enough to score at a loss to someone else who wasn't lucky or dedicated, just so that the buyer can pay retail.
3. People don't seem to have a problem with custom knives going at market rates. No one objects when Loveless knives sell for thousands of dollars when their original price was in the hundreds of dollars.
4. People selling here in general essentially never make money. For every knife you sell at a profit, you probably sell five at a loss.
5. Even for hot knives that can be flipped, think about this: A) A DLT excusive 20CV PM2 was about $145. Great price. B) If I want to sell one of mine, I would have to ask for at least $165... just to break even after shipping and fees.
6. There is no deception involved in flipping. Anyone who sees a 20CV PM2 for >$180 right now knows that the seller is trying to make a few bucks. So what? Their net profit is almost certainly <$50. No one is being cheated. The price is the price, and it's right there up front. Don't like it? Then make an offer, or just pass.

Flipping doesn't even rise to the level of Paypal F&F, the misuse of which is actually fraudulent. Flipping is just someone selling a knife for more than some are willing to pay. I don't get indignant about that, if it's more than I'm willing to pay, I just don't buy.
 
Flipping will never go away. Consider it a Public Service. Not only does flipping give you at least the opportunity to acquire the item you desired, but it can inform you of those you wish to avoid dealing with. Many flippers reveal their MOs over time. The ones I especially avoid, are the gougers and the ones who contribute absolutely nothing but WTS. I don’t understand why those who only constantly sell here, aren’t required to have a Dealers Membership.

I have no issue with limited editions, but I believe that those Dealers who refuse to limit the amount that an individual can purchase in a limited run, are aiding and abetting flipping. In the end, nothing in regards to flipping, will ever change. At least until the Apocalypse.
 
KooKooforKukripuffs said:
How is asking an inflated price for a knife "pulling one over" on a buyer?
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I keep thinking the same thing. If a knife's price is over-inflated, but someone is willing to pay that price, then both parties are in agreement. No one is being taken advantage of or scammed. If I'm willing to pay $400 of a limited edition knife that originally cost $200, then I'm not being scammed. I have simply made a decision that the markup is worth it to not have to wait.
 
There are definitely two schools of thought on this matter. Some of us believe that flipping knives is just an extension of capitalism and free enterprise, while other members feel it to be a form of extortion.
It probably has a lot to do about an individuals life experience and disposal funds. Some of us that have been in the business of buying and selling will take a more liberal attitude. The people that have worked hard their whole lives for an average hourly wage, may definitely take a more conservative point of view.
 
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Chris*33 said:
Every community has standards of behavior, even a community that claims it doesn't. That doesn't mean that every one should behave like a robot. Different personalities exist because each has something to offer. But boundaries are as important as tolerance.
For example, a site that sets a limit on the profit you can make on selling something, make it a percentage depending on the price point or something, draws some boundaries but still allowing the practice in a controlled manner. This would drive away a number of people with the sole purpose to make money of it. I am not saying i would support it, i am not saying that is flawless, but it's there. A possible solution that simultaneously draws boundaries and, also, allows for a practice/behavior to take place. You take away/minimize the profit incentive, so this leaves room for those who are interested in the community (...not the cult) for what it is.

By 'weasel' you mean sneaky or two-faced? If that's the case, everything has two sides, the truth usually lying in between.
You're last point i didn't get, English being a second language for me. You mean that there is nothing i can do?
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Um no. Even was the mod squad so inclined, who would you propose as the arbiter of "this percentage is too much?" What is that percentage? Why?
 
cigarrodog said:
Flipping will never go away. Consider it a Public Service. Not only does flipping give you at least the opportunity to acquire the item you desired, but it can inform you of those you wish to avoid dealing with. Many flippers reveal their MOs over time. The ones I especially avoid, are the gougers and the ones who contribute absolutely nothing but WTS. I don’t understand why those who only constantly sell here, aren’t required to have a Dealers Membership.

I have no issue with limited editions, but I believe that those Dealers who refuse to limit the amount that an individual can purchase in a limited run, are aiding and abetting flipping. In the end, nothing in regards to flipping, will ever change. At least until the Apocalypse.
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There is almost a subculture here that I think probably is the same as the Instagram knife folks, where they've been here for a year, but they've already got 100+ feedbacks, and 99% of their posts are in a WTB/WTS forum.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, these folks also generate the most GB&U complaints. I don't begrudge them the right to sell, but I certainly don't consider them members of the community, either, and some of them should seriously be required to have dealer memberships.

On an unrelated note, I was glad to see DLT limit the last exclusive to two per household. I think that's a good balance. That accommodates the many people who want to have one to use and one to put in the safe, limits the amount of flipping any one person can do, and maximizes everyone's chances to get the desired knife. I just don't think any individual or dealer should be forced to do things like that.
 
madcap_magician said:
Some thoughts on this:

1. I don't have a problem with flippers. If I don't like the price, I don't buy. If enough people don't like the price, the price goes down, or the knife doesn't sell.
2. People have a right to dispose of their property as they see fit. This is a hobby. No one actually needs our expensive knives. No one will actually suffer because they weren't able to get the latest Paramilitary 2 sprint or exclusive at retail price. No one has a right to demand that someone sell them a knife they want at a price they are willing to pay. There is certainly no obligation for someone to sell the knife they were lucky or dedicated enough to score at a loss to someone else who wasn't lucky or dedicated, just so that the buyer can pay retail.
3. People don't seem to have a problem with custom knives going at market rates. No one objects when Loveless knives sell for thousands of dollars when their original price was in the hundreds of dollars.
4. People selling here in general essentially never make money. For every knife you sell at a profit, you probably sell five at a loss.
5. Even for hot knives that can be flipped, think about this: A) A DLT excusive 20CV PM2 was about $145. Great price. B) If I want to sell one of mine, I would have to ask for at least $165... just to break even after shipping and fees.
6. There is no deception involved in flipping. Anyone who sees a 20CV PM2 for >$180 right now knows that the seller is trying to make a few bucks. So what? Their net profit is almost certainly <$50. No one is being cheated. The price is the price, and it's right there up front. Don't like it? Then make an offer, or just pass.

Flipping doesn't even rise to the level of Paypal F&F, the misuse of which is actually fraudulent. Flipping is just someone selling a knife for more than some are willing to pay. I don't get indignant about that, if it's more than I'm willing to pay, I just don't buy.
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The issue is I've seen quite a few 20CV PMs going for over $200, and the SNK PM3 is the worst one I've seen yet, almost all I've seen resold at a near or over $100 mark-up. That's super scummy.
 
Triton said:
Um no. Even was the mod squad so inclined, who would you propose as the arbiter of "this percentage is too much?" What is that percentage? Why?
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Don't ask me, but ask yourself...what do you think would work? If enough people answer these questions, then you see where the consensus lies and you can decide where to draw a line.
The questions you are making are spot on, BUT these are the basis of every decision that involves many, and not the blockage. It's what the decision should be built upon and not the rock that breaks the wave (Fear & Loathing in LV...Respect!)
 
Triton said:
Capitalism is not alright?
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So a political system and a knife Forum is the same thing? Your child cries over a chocolate bar / toy or something and it's the last one and just before you grab it i jump and take it, even though i have no use for it. I turn to you and say it's 90 dollars, now. There's no law to prohibit it, and it's really a capitalistic act...So, caring for and respecting others others around us is not alright?
Anything can be alright for the one who can afford to take the specific action and the one who already engages in it.
 
stonesell said:
There are definitely two schools of thought on this matter. Some of us believe that flipping knives is just an extension of capitalism and free enterprise, while other members feel it to be a form of extortion.
It probably has a lot to do about an individuals life experience and disposal funds. Some of us that have been in the business of buying and selling will take a more liberal attitude. The people that have worked hard their whole lives for an average hourly wage, may definitely take a more conservative point of view.
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I really like the fact that you see both views, and it doesn't matter if i agree with you or not. That's what i like in these kind of disputes. People get a chance to express their opinion and attitude. It provides material to be out there, in content/ personality/expression that possibly allows those who search of these to get inspired by a behavior, attitude or an actual concept that was mentioned. If people are willing, it can lead to solutions as well :D
Another fellow member deduced that i am saying that Capitalism is not alright...Well, any first world country will give you the thumbs up! The reality, though, is different in countries that are being manipulated and repressed in order to serve the Capitalism of the rest. Who is correct? Capitalism acts as a drive for advancement and also as an oppressor. Wars are waged in the name of unity of the world, taking down Communists, or whatever, the ultimate target being control --> Profit. Now is Capitalism innately good or bad? Neither i believe..it's the practices of us people that use it as a shield to protect other interests that corrupts the concept. If you think about it, the same can be said for religions but that's another story.
And then there's always the problem with those flippers ;)
 
cigarrodog said:
Flipping will never go away. Consider it a Public Service. Not only does flipping give you at least the opportunity to acquire the item you desired, but it can inform you of those you wish to avoid dealing with. Many flippers reveal their MOs over time. The ones I especially avoid, are the gougers and the ones who contribute absolutely nothing but WTS. I don’t understand why those who only constantly sell here, aren’t required to have a Dealers Membership.

I have no issue with limited editions, but I believe that those Dealers who refuse to limit the amount that an individual can purchase in a limited run, are aiding and abetting flipping. In the end, nothing in regards to flipping, will ever change. At least until the Apocalypse.
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I understand your thoughts, and i agree with the limit on exclusives/limited editions and on the Dealer membership for those who should, points. But public service, i am not so sure about it. If he doesn't get the knife, maybe you would. Also, there are always the cases in which people buy something out of curiosity and turns up that it's not what they were expecting, and people that decide to sell because either it happens they need money more than knife, or they need another knife more that the one they got.
 
fkctrjt121 said:
I think we need to understand that buying knives might be a hobby for us but could be an important source of extra cash for some

I would never begrudge somebody trying to legally make cash. They could be doing it to feed their kids

Don't like the price dont pay it.
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Point (for the maybe need the money for kids part) taken sir. Not sure it's the only way, though.
 
fq55 said:
I’ve been here in one form or another since 1998 and if BF ever instituted a policy on how much an individual can try and sell their personal property for I would leave for good.

It’s anti American and counter to the ideals of capitalism.

I think many would agree with me.
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First of all, that S90V native is my EDC since i got it, thanks!
Now, being..not an American, I am really fascinated by the statements anti-American and this is America, because at first i only heard it on TV, but when my knife interested got me involved with fellows from USA i see that this is a part of your DNA now and way of life/upbringing. Movies are based somewhere, right? Believe me i am a huge fan of that idea as i understand it, probably not in the same level as you of course, but, the way i get it, is that the American idea lies in the fact that you are free to choose. Fellow members commented that it is what it is and if i don't like it i should not support it. I agree...it is on me if i support it or not, but also it is on me to protest it. Similarly, a website/forum with certain regulations gives you the chance to read those regulations and choose if you want to be a member or not. In my view, it is American (i mean it as the idea of freedom and civil liberties) to support a place that wants to focus on the more of a hobby and learning aspect of something and not the profit. It is your right, as i wrote before, not to support it, that's how i understand it.

Please give me your feedback on that, and not only in the frame of 'flipping', because it is really interesting to me.
 
I should probably not post. But... :)

I’m not a flipper. In fact, I don’t collect productions, only customs where it’s a little different of a dynamic.

But ultimately you either believe in a free market and capitalism, or you don’t. It’s a bit silly to say, well yeah, I’m all for capitalism and a free market economy, unless it means I can’t get the thing I want at the seller’s cost. Because that’s the opposite of a free market and capitalism. You can’t have it both ways. I don’t like the idea of attempting to engineer social or economic equality. I find it to be a very slippery slope.

If the flippers can get their hands on the limited drops, so can you eventually. If not, you’re not doing it as well as they are. Unless they’re hacking into the manufacturer’s selling process somehow, which I doubt, then it’s a level playing field.

I just don’t see how flipping makes someone a horrible person. Would it be nice of someone to figure out how to get a lot of the rare knives and then sell them at cost to all those that missed out? Yes. No doubt. But if someone doesn’t go that route and for whatever reason wants to make some money, so what. It’s his property and he’s entitled to do so. Again, these are the basic tenets of freedom, capitalism and a free market.

But to go to the custom side for an extreme example, if a guy wins a lottery Rexford at the blade show, for $1500, and the knife is worth $15,000 to collectors in the secondary, is he a horrible person if he tries to get 15k? I personally don’t think so. People enter raffles for all sorts of things. If you win something and sell it, are you a bad person? I don’t think so.

I will agree on one point, it’s better if the flipper is at least a knife collector or hobbiest and not in it purely for the money, and I suspect many of the flippers are indeed knife collectors, and do it so they can afford to buy other knives. But even if they’re not, it’s a free market, he can do as he likes, and we are all free to not buy something we think is priced too high.

There are tons of cool things I’d love to buy but they’re way too much money. But I put on my big boy pants and say, well, it sucks, but that’s show biz, maybe I’ll try harder. :)
 
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