Inflated prices

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Flippers should mark their posts with a "flipper warning". Just like tobacco companies do with cancer warnings on cigarettes packs.
This way only those willing to pay a high $$ should participate in the thread. Saving the rest of us the outrage.
 
leghog said:
Again, no one is required to pay more than they are willing for any pocket knife. Potential purchasers can simply walk away. I've done so often and remain no worse off for doing so.
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youve made your position very clear already Sir. I clarified mine since you pointed out that I used a poor choice of words. ill leave it at that.
 
I was into sneakers for a long time, and still am to a degree. Same thing happens/happened with certain releases. Eventually, some manufacturers increased production, so in theory everyone who wants one can get it at retail. The manufacturer gets to sell to more people and the resellers buy crossing their fingers that demand will still exceed production. Sometimes things sell out, sometimes not. There are still genuinely limited releases that sell out instantly and the resellers resell, but the problem was addressed in some areas. Sneaker releases also usually have limits on number of pairs that can be bought per account, but resellers just have multiple cards and accounts.

Lots of ways to address this issue since it's a problem (and sometimes one the manufacturer wants - limited supply creates hype and demand) but people always figure out a way around the solution.

Fortunately, I am not really into any production knives so I don't struggle with these limited releases, but I do bump into it with some TAD or PDW drops.
 
If you guys think knife flippers are bad, hanging out with the spork crowd will be an eye opener for you.......
 
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IMO the people actually buying the "flipped" items should be scolded and scorned as much as the "flippers", as this practice is sustained solely by this symbiosis. Nobody needs to buy these things and both parties are succumbing to selfish impulses that could potentially "harm the community".
 
ArchVV said:
IMO the people actually buying the "flipped" items should be scolded and scorned as much as the "flippers", as this practice is sustained solely by this symbiosis. Nobody needs to buy these things and both parties are succumbing to selfish impulses that could potentially "harm the community".
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Can you guys tell me how it is you are harmed by this? If someone wants to sell a knife for an exhorbitant amount of money, and someone else wants to pay an exhorbitant amount of money for it, how does that impact you at all?

Plus, we already do have a label for flipping sale threads. It's the price.
 
madcap_magician said:
Can you guys tell me how it is you are harmed by this? If someone wants to sell a knife for an exhorbitant amount of money, and someone else wants to pay an exhorbitant amount of money for it, how does that impact you at all?

Plus, we already do have a label for flipping sale threads. It's the price.
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Sorry, I should have made the sarcasm here more obvious. I was expressing your exact point, but taking it to the logical conclusion (a sloppy syllogism, if you will).

Unless you are agreeing with me :oops: I need more coffee...
 
madcap_magician said:
Can you guys tell me how it is you are harmed by this? If someone wants to sell a knife for an exhorbitant amount of money, and someone else wants to pay an exhorbitant amount of money for it, how does that impact you at all?

Plus, we already do have a label for flipping sale threads. It's the price.
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dont like it so it harms me. isnt that how folks act today....:)

it's an opinion thing. everyone's allowed to disagree with each other if they want. long as everyone stays civil.
 
madcap_magician said:
Can you guys tell me how it is you are harmed by this? If someone wants to sell a knife for an exhorbitant amount of money, and someone else wants to pay an exhorbitant amount of money for it, how does that impact you at all?

Plus, we already do have a label for flipping sale threads. It's the price.
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some seem turned off by the greed-which is not a very admirable quality
but others feel they should be offered the knife at a cheaper price. They are not entitled to any knife and acting so is not so admirable a quality either.
Bottom line no one is hurt except in their own mind.
 
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Whether you choose to give your hard earned money to a flipper or not, the flipper undeniably funds his knife hobby through his continuous flipping. Rhetorical: Is that what you do, too? I think most here want to avoid the ebay culture everyone professes against at BF. Shiny Edges explained flipping pretty well right off the bat in another thread, and then there were four pages of misdirection suggesting things like market appreciation (and therefore, depreciation as well) and "Witch hunts" were somehow relatable to the immediate intent of the flipper -- who already duped the dealer limiting # per household.

Seedy is seedy. Justify it however you like, guys. Knife flippers don't just flip knives; read up on the latest TicketMaster headlines. This is what these people do for a living. :rolleyes: While the rest of us support them by going to work. All the glory of American Pickers, but without any reality: Paying taxes, overhead, employees, leases, etc. So you see, the "greedy" and the "entitle[d]" are the same person. No, you don't have to fund them, nor do you even have to put them on your ignore list if you don't want. But to defend them? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Please everyone understand what knife flipping is before posing questions with arbitrary tangents. And enjoy your "Butt hurt" hump day. :cool:
 
Peter Hartwig said:
some seem turned off by the greed-which is not a very admirable quality
but others feel they should be offered the knife at a cheaper price. They are not entitled to any knife and acting so is not so admirable a quality either.
Bottom line no one is hurt except in their own mind.
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I agree that nobody gets hurt, because collecting knives is a luxury and not a necessity.
If we were discussing big pharmaceutical companies, and how they charge unrealistic prices for cancer drugs that could save lives, but only the wealthy could afford, then I would be expressing outrage also.
 
Phixt said:
Justify it however you like, guys. . :cool:
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I don't think many if any are try to justify them. I don't like the practice. It is greed and as such distasteful. Flippers likely don't like flippers. But this is reality-the world isn't perfect and there is no even playing field. You can go to drastic measures to try to harass them or take the simple route of just passing on the deal. Be it flippers or other greedy or overoptimistic sellers I pass on deals every day. It goes so fast that I don't even know if they were flipping or not. I don't like the price and I am gone. I don't have any lack of knives and that one more(which I likely will find latter) isn't going to make my life so much better.
This isn't the biggest forum problem- we have scammers and thiefs(including PP F&F). Dealing with these flippers is totally voluntary. I am looking to Shiny's list to see how many they find that are actually habitual(and in dealer violation-a tactic I can support-violation of a rule) and how many are just one timers grabbing an oportunity. Likely no matter what you try to do the habituals will find a way around it.
I however have gotten over getting mad at the little things. Too much is screwed up in the world and I would be in a constant fit of anger if I didn't let somethings pass. These guys(flippers) can only get my money if I give to them, in which case I am more likely to blame me then them.
 
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Peter Hartwig said:
I don't think many if any are try to justify them. I don't like the practice. It is greed and as such distasteful. Flippers likely don't like flippers. But this is reality-the world isn't perfect and there is no even playing field. You can go to drastic measures to try to harass them or take the simple route of just passing on the deal. Be it flippers or other greedy or overoptimistic sellers I pass on deals every day. It goes so fast that I don't even know if they were flipping or not. I don't like the price and I am gone. I don't have any lack of knives and that one more(which I likely will find latter) isn't going to make my life so much better.
This isn't the biggest forum problem- we have scammers and thiefs(including PP F&F). Dealing with these flippers is totally voluntary. I am looking to Shiny's list to see how many they find that are actually habitual(and in dealer violation-a tactic I can support-violation of a rule) and how nay are just one timers grabbing an oportunity. Likely no matter what you try to do the habituals will find a way around it.
I however have gotten over getting mad at the little things. Too much is screwed up in the world and I would be in a constant fit of anger if I didn't let somethings pass. These guys(flippers) can only get my money if I give to them, in which case I am more likely to blame me then them.
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Pretty much agreed. Just fyi I didn't mean to suggest you were one of the advocates, if I did. Squeezed it in at lunch.

The cool face was a slam for the flippers and their supporters righteously belittling the workforce via slang references from 2002-2012.
 
Phixt said:
But to defend them? :rolleyes::rolleyes:
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I'm not defending the practice of flipping. I'm opposing the creation of a social shaming schema where members are called out by name with no clear, agreed-upon, non-arbitrary definition for flipping; no way to disprove allegations, and no recourse for being smeared.

Phixt said:
Please everyone understand what knife flipping is before posing questions with arbitrary tangents. And enjoy your "Butt hurt" hump day. :cool:
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We don't understand what knife flipping is. Shiny Edges posted a potential definition, but A) he's the only one who has accepted it and B) it's arbitrary.

We all know that there are people who are clearly buying knives for the express intent of reselling them at a profit. But how do you know they're buying and reselling for the purpose of making a profit, versus A) buying and reselling because they didn't like the knife quite as much as they thought they did? B) Buying and reselling because of a sudden financial crunch? C) Buying and selling because of buyer's remorse?

We can say that people who are flipping knives are dealers. But what about a guy who saw an opportunity to get a popular knife at below-market rates and jumped on it to resell? Does doing this once make you a dealer? Or just lucky?

I think if you wanted to really address the flipping issue, such as it is, you could do several things:

1. Have dealers limit quantity of sales per household.
2. Limit the number of sales threads you can post by level of membership. You could make this flexible by offering, say, ten sales threads a year for Gold members, 25 for Platinum, and allowing purchase of sales threads individually or in five-thread packages.
3. Clarify the definition of flipping and establish a forum rule, enforced by reporting and moderation. I.E., no resale of multiples of the same knife within 30 days of its release.
 
Why not hold etailers and manufacturers accountable as well? Not hard to just limit the number of X knife that a customer can purchase. Or make more. But the hype and exclusivity drives the market - both for the flippers and the people who want the limited release. But over production is bad for manufacturers, better to sell out than make too many. And those sell outs generate "hype" and "thirst" for the next limited release.

Anyway, if the owner of BF wants to pursue this, it's cool. I don't flip or buy these hot releases (although I have paid over retail many times). But the problem is bigger than just someone selling for a profit.
 
madcap_magician said:
I'm not defending the practice of flipping. I'm opposing the creation of a social shaming schema where members are called out by name with no clear, agreed-upon, non-arbitrary definition for flipping; no way to disprove allegations, and no recourse for being smeared.



We don't understand what knife flipping is. Shiny Edges posted a potential definition, but A) he's the only one who has accepted it and B) it's arbitrary.

We all know that there are people who are clearly buying knives for the express intent of reselling them at a profit. But how do you know they're buying and reselling for the purpose of making a profit, versus A) buying and reselling because they didn't like the knife quite as much as they thought they did? B) Buying and reselling because of a sudden financial crunch? C) Buying and selling because of buyer's remorse?

We can say that people who are flipping knives are dealers. But what about a guy who saw an opportunity to get a popular knife at below-market rates and jumped on it to resell? Does doing this once make you a dealer? Or just lucky?

I think if you wanted to really address the flipping issue, such as it is, you could do several things:

1. Have dealers limit quantity of sales per household.
2. Limit the number of sales threads you can post by level of membership. You could make this flexible by offering, say, ten sales threads a year for Gold members, 25 for Platinum, and allowing purchase of sales threads individually or in five-thread packages.
3. Clarify the definition of flipping and establish a forum rule, enforced by reporting and moderation. I.E., no resale of multiples of the same knife within 30 days of its release.
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This is an interesting idea, inspired by which I suggest the following:

Pr: original retail price of a knife
Pf: flipping/sales price of the knife at BladeForums
D: the number of days between when the knife is flipped/sold at BladeForums and when it was released
M: the money that the seller owns BladeForums for selling/flipping the knife

M = (Pf - Pr) / (D+1), if D<30
M = 0, if D>=30 or if Pf<Pr

Based on this formula, if someone sells the knife on the very next day of its release (D=1), he will have to give 50% of his profit to BladeForums; on the other hand, if he waits for 30 days, he won't have to give anything to BF.
 
If enough members are adamant about controlling "Flippers", they could request that Spark create a separate sales forum for Sprint runs, and other limited edition folding folding knife sales. This way the members that are desperate to add a scarce knife to their collection, can easily monitor the going price point, and availability.
However, it may still create a lot of confusion about which models belong in that category.
 
sharp_edge said:
This is an interesting idea, inspired by which I suggest the following:

Pr: original retail price of a knife
Pf: flipping/sales price of the knife at BladeForums
D: the number of days between when the knife is flipped/sold at BladeForums and when it was released
M: the money that the seller owns BladeForums for selling/flipping the knife

M = (Pf - Pr) / (D+1), if D<30
M = 0, if D>=30 or if Pf<Pr

Based on this formula, if someone sells the knife on the very next day of its release (D=1), he will have to give 50% of his profit to BladeForums; on the other hand, if he waits for 30 days, he won't have to give anything to BF.
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This is starting to look kind of eBay-ish, with commissions and fees, but something like that might be workable, if complicated. One problem is that Bladeforums does not actually know the agreed-upon sales price.

I was thinking more like just limiting sales thread quantities by membership type. That will not stop flipping, but it will stop career flippers and keep other flipping to a dull roar.
 
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