Introducing the "CKCA" (Custom Knife Collector’s Association)

The CKCA is officially three days old though about 20 of us have been working behind the scenes for about nine months constructing it's infrastructure.

I don't see the disconnect here.

Very early on I envisioned starting a small forged knife collectors club as more of a social entity than anything else. From ALL the input, sparked primarily during Steve Shackleford's discussion at Jerry's micro show, it became apparent that a larger more universal group could in fact have a positive impact on the issues and problems facing the custom knife industry today. Since October the CKCA has been moving forward at a fast pace in this direction.

I personally spoke to and handed out hundreds of brochures to folks outside the forged community at the Blade Show.

Perhaps some need to take a wait and see position as to the direction the CKCA will go and others see the potential to accomplish great things and are getting in on the ground floor. There's nothing wrong with either approach. :thumbup: :)
 
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Gollnick said:
I'm not convinced that $50 will make that much difference in how my ideas and opinions are received. If I get beat up and belittled for making a few simple suggestions now, why should I believe that the reception will be any different $50 from now?

Are my ideas and opinions going to be any better after I've paid my $50? Is $50 the cost of having your ideas and opinions listened to rather than attacked or, at least, brusquely dismissed?

In the last few pages of this thread, the leadership of this organization has shown itself to be quite resistant to any changes and quite defensive of its established ways. Instead of welcoming new ideas and suggestions and constructively-offered criticisms, you can quite literally hear the hackles rising in this thread. I doubt that $50 is gonna change that. And, I wouldn't want to participate in an orgainization where $50 would change that.
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Surely you appreciate that what is being suggested is that your participation, not your $50, is what will make a difference? You can't possibly have misperceived that, can you?

You can't have lost the message that the more diverse the interests of the membership, the more diverse the organization will be, can you? Recruiting members from all corners of the cutlery world is what will make stated gold of inclusiveness and universality (is that a word?) a reality. Having people like you in the organisation - people with substantial knowlegde of and passion for types of knives other than forged blades - would be of incalculable benefit.

You seem to want to see things a certain way - and that's fine - but suggesting that this is about $50 is missing the mark by a substantial margin. Like, huge. If you read a little more carefully you will see that a lot of people acknowledge that you have a point about the perceived nature of the association. Indeed, I can't help but wonder how you missed that. Those same people are saying "Come on in and help us make it better." To which your reply is "My $50 won't matter." Dude, seriously?

Roger

Lorien - thanks very much for your post.

RL - thanks for being predictably you.
 
Chuck, I think the CKCA would benefit from having you as a member. The fact that what was originally envisioned was a forged knife collectors club is the reason that in its beginnings the CKCA has the appearance of favoring that area of collecting. We need to get more of the stock removal, tactical, balisong, auto, slipjoint, art knife, miniature people involved. I think it is also important that we get people from other areas of collecting, not involved with knives, to start taking a serious look at custom knives. We need all the idea people that we can get.

RL, I agree that at this point the scales are definitely tipped in the forged direction. It is my hope that the CKCA will evolve over time to be an organization that has a healthy mix from all areas of the custom knife community. For that to happen, we need to get people like you and Chuck to become members. The more members we get that are interested in areas other than forged knives, the better it will be for the CKCA.
 
jjtjr said:
Thor,

I did not mean to imply that you could or should not post about the CKCA on this forum. We are both paid members here and can post on anything that we want.

What I did mean to imply is that the CKCA can use new members such as yourself who do think about the issues and can bring new ideas and make it a great organization.

Jim Treacy
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OK Jim, thanks for the reply and invite. Like I said before, I'll have to read up more about the org and then make a call whether I think I should join.
 
Thor I am said:
Yeah, that was constructive and intelligent :rolleyes: :jerkit:
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C'mon, Thor, lighten up. I was just trying to provide some much-needed levity in a (IMO) way-to-serious thread. :foot::D We collect knives for goodness sake. We're not trying to solve the world's problems. :confused:

Join the group. If it means that much to you to have the logo changed, be my guest. I could care less what the logo looks like. :shrug:

It seems to me that some folks (not necessarily you, Thor) came to the table with some pre-conceived notions about the CKCA and nothing under the sun will change their minds.
 
Senator said:
I collect forged fixed blades, forged folders, stock removal fixed blades, stock removal folders, hunters, fighters, bowies, dirks, daggers, lockbacks, liner locks, slipjoints, multi-blades, high-tech knives, low-tech knives, big-ass knives, miniature knives, $20 knives, $2000 knives, stainless knives, carbon steel knives, carbon damascus knives, stainless damascus knives, san-mai knives, micarta-handled knives, wood handled knives, meteorite-handled knives, titanium-handled knives, bone-handled knives, ivory-handled knives, carbon fiber-handled knives, pearl-handled knives, G10-handled knives, FRN-handled knives, modern knives, antique knives, factory knives, custom knives, knives, handmade knives, mid-tech knives, knives bought from makers, dealers, collectors...
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... and by the way, I do collect everything in my list.
 
Food for thought...

Have you ever noticed that the NRA logo only pictures long guns? The name is also the National Rifle Association. Does that indicate that the organization cares less about handgun owners' rights?
 
A baby is born on June 1, 2008. Will the baby be right handed or left handed? What will be the final hair color? Will the teeth be straight or will the services of an orthodontist be required. Can this child grow up to be president? I bet you are thinking, "how the hell do I know"? All of them or none of them are possible. The same is true of the infant CKCA. It has every chance of becoming one of the finest organizations we have ever seen, or with enough before the fact negativism maybe not. I'm will to wait a while and see. How about you?

I joined before Blade at the Charter level, because I thought it (the organization) was a good idea, and because the extra money from the level I chose might come in handy early on. I have not be disappointed with the actions or results of those working very hard to make this thing fly. I think to criticize at this point is way premature to say the least. Keeping in mind that all forward motion to this point has been accomplished by unpaid volunteers, I think they have done a great job, particulalry considering they have tried the impossible and that is to listen to and please everyone. (Both of which are really impossible).

Some folks have made observations, criticisms, suggestions etc. and have felt that they have been ignored, belittled, and treated without repsect, when in fact, there has not been enough time to get any of their suggestions up and running. Just because a suggestion or criticism is made does not mean that it will be acted upon at all, but that also does not mean that the person making the suggestion or criticism is being belittled or ignored. It could mean their suggestion sucked swamp water, or for some other reason was not deemed worthy of consideration.

As far a a "disconnect" is concerned, I guess someone will have to take me by the hand and show me, because I don't see it. (and much like Gollnick, if you did show me I still wouldn't see it).

Give this fledgling organization time to learn to fly before you judge too harshly. I think you will see something really worth while start to take root quickly. Just for what it's worth, I'm not a real collector of anything much so I don't have an axe to grind, but I am proud to be a member of CKCA, and I think it will have a long and prosperous life.

Paul (the other Paul)
 
Gollnick said:
I'm not convinced that $50 will make that much difference in how my ideas and opinions are received. If I get beat up and belittled for making a few simple suggestions now, why should I believe that the reception will be any different $50 from now?

Are my ideas and opinions going to be any better after I've paid my $50? Is $50 the cost of having your ideas and opinions listened to rather than attacked or, at least, brusquely dismissed?

In the last few pages of this thread, the leadership of this organization has shown itself to be quite resistant to any changes and quite defensive of its established ways. Instead of welcoming new ideas and suggestions and constructively-offered criticisms, you can quite literally hear the hackles rising in this thread. I doubt that $50 is gonna change that. And, I wouldn't want to participate in an orgainization where $50 would change that.
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Chuck, I'm confused as to why you didn't come up to one (or all) of our directors after the seminar so we could address your concerns/issues in person, rather than blasting us over this public forum. That would probably have been much more productive.
 
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Keith Montgomery said:
RL, I agree that at this point the scales are definitely tipped in the forged direction. It is my hope that the CKCA will evolve over time to be an organization that has a healthy mix from all areas of the custom knife community. For that to happen, we need to get people like you and Chuck to become members. The more members we get that are interested in areas other than forged knives, the better it will be for the CKCA.
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Thanks for the invite KWM but i will have to decline. Based on the attitudes displayed by some of your founders here on bladeforums (even in this thread), i have zero motivation to hand them $50 of my money.

I agree that it would be good to get a more diverse member base. Hopefully other prospective members will not read the threads here on BF over the last year or two and come to the same conclusions that i have. Hopefully, collectors from other major tactical forums will not come here and see all the "koolaid" and other snide remarks from some of your founders and get similarly turned-off.

RL
 
RL said:
Thanks for the invite KWM but i will have to decline. Based on the attitudes displayed by some of your founders here on bladeforums (even in this thread), i have zero motivation to hand them $50 of my money.

I agree that it would be good to get a more diverse member base. Hopefully other prospective members will not read the threads here on BF over the last year or two and come to the same conclusions that i have. Hopefully, collectors from other major tactical forums will not come here and see all the "koolaid" and other snide remarks from some of your founders and get similarly turned-off.
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Maybe after some time has passed the CKCA will become an organization that you would be more willing to get involved with, and then again, maybe not. Anyway, thanks for your input. We need to hear from those that don't like what they see so that we can determine what areas need improvement.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Maybe after some time has passed the CKCA will become an organization that you would be more willing to get involved with, and then again, maybe not.
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Why "maybe?" If your goal is truly to build an all-inclusive knife collector's organization, then there should be no "maybe" here. It's your stated goal, so do it... now.

The idea that you need other people to come in and help change the organization is silly. If your goal is truly to build an all-inclusive knife collector's organization, then there should be no other people needed. It's your stated goal, so do it... yourself.

The fact that you think it maybe might happen someday if other people do it is a another one of those disconnections. It calls into question whether your publicly-stated goals truly are your real goals.




Anyway, thanks for your input. We need to hear from those that don't like what they see so that we can determine what areas need improvement.
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You've had two very specific pieces of that input in this thread. They are both immediately actionable. Neither is costly or difficult. So why not just do them.

1) Change the logo. It represents the organization and what it stands for. It should be consistent with -- it should be connected to -- the organization's goals and objectives and it's mission and vision. It is, of course, impossible to represent all kinds of knives in the space of a logo, but I suspect that you can do a lot better.

2) Diversify the pictures on the website. Establish simple policies: not considering pictures posted in the forums by members, no more than half of the knives pictured on the site shall be fixed blades. No more than half shall be forged. And, while this is a difficult one to exactly quantify because it's a bit subjective, the goal shall be to split about 50/50 between traditional and modern designs and between art and utility designs.

You can start these changes right now. And then at least your public appearance will be consistent with -- connected to -- your stated goals.
 
sheathmaker said:
A baby is born on June 1, 2008. Will the baby be right handed or left handed? What will be the final hair color? Will the teeth be straight or will the services of an orthodontist be required. Can this child grow up to be president? I bet you are thinking, "how the hell do I know"? All of them or none of them are possible. The same is true of the infant CKCA. It has every chance of becoming one of the finest organizations we have ever seen, or with enough before the fact negativism maybe not. I'm will to wait a while and see. How about you?

I joined before Blade at the Charter level, because I thought it (the organization) was a good idea, and because the extra money from the level I chose might come in handy early on. I have not be disappointed with the actions or results of those working very hard to make this thing fly. I think to criticize at this point is way premature to say the least. Keeping in mind that all forward motion to this point has been accomplished by unpaid volunteers, I think they have done a great job, particulalry considering they have tried the impossible and that is to listen to and please everyone. (Both of which are really impossible).

Some folks have made observations, criticisms, suggestions etc. and have felt that they have been ignored, belittled, and treated without repsect, when in fact, there has not been enough time to get any of their suggestions up and running. Just because a suggestion or criticism is made does not mean that it will be acted upon at all, but that also does not mean that the person making the suggestion or criticism is being belittled or ignored. It could mean their suggestion sucked swamp water, or for some other reason was not deemed worthy of consideration.

As far a a "disconnect" is concerned, I guess someone will have to take me by the hand and show me, because I don't see it. (and much like Gollnick, if you did show me I still wouldn't see it).

Give this fledgling organization time to learn to fly before you judge too harshly. I think you will see something really worth while start to take root quickly. Just for what it's worth, I'm not a real collector of anything much so I don't have an axe to grind, but I am proud to be a member of CKCA, and I think it will have a long and prosperous life.

Paul (the other Paul)
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That was very well said Paul - thank you.

Roger
 
Good Grief! the testosterone floweth........


I am not thrilled with the logo, I see a "slant" towards forged.....but, you know what? I think this organization is trying to be and do something we don't have in the industry and Begg Knives is willing to invest,by being charter members,to BE A PART of the solution. The founders have been challenged with some valid points, but to continue to stand on the sidelines and cast stones but refuse to come aboard and help implement the very changes wanted is pointless. I don't think anyone is shooting the messenger.........the invitation to join has been extended, repeatedly. If the CKCA is subconsciously or inadvertently biased towards forged knives, then Begg Knives will do its part to change that. I 've sold knives to guys who didn't like our work at first, made public posts saying so, right STeven??? I made it my business to make an effort to educate and change their minds. I am confident that Begg Knives will help bring balance to the Force!!

Now, can someone please help me get registered? I gave our application and money to STeven at the show.

Tanya
 
tntbegg said:
Now, can someone please help me get registered? I gave our application and money to STeven at the show.

Tanya
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Sorry, Tanya, we are lagging....I'll get the people's on it.....your badges are going out in the mail today.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
After having read this thread backwards and forwards more than once, I am of the opinion that I don't give a shit whether my primary interest in stock removal knives becomes safisfied or not. It is worth the $50 to join a bunch of knife crazies. Whether forged, stock removal, folder, fixed blade, etc, I think supporting a start-up is important, period. The question will be whether I renew. So for goodness sake, give this new baby a chance to grow, unless some of you are just too damn cheap. By joining, your voice will be even more forcefully heard - or it won't be worth the renewal.

We will all have our own prejudices in knives just as long as we live - but hopefully treat each other as we would in the world community - prejudiced or not - as we would want ourselves to be treated.

I haven't pulled the trigger yet and joined, Kevin, but promise I will just as soon as I get over Blade - definitely within a week.

EDIT: I even promise to take Les Robertson off "ignore" if I haven't joined within a week - too much of a penalty to risk!
 
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