Introducing the "CKCA" (Custom Knife Collector’s Association)

[Kevin Jones]

Murray did as good a pictorial essay of the Blade Show as I have ever seen. Here's a few from the CKCA Seminar:

STeven greeting folks before the seminar starts:

Larry Bailey and JR Cook:

[/quote]
Here's the JR Cook Bayou Hunter we gave away:

Larry Bailey made this show display:

STeven and I during the seminar:

 

[RL]

How many people have gone to CKCA's website to check it out and just quietly walked away because the knives they saw sent the clear message that this is a club for big bowie fans? I don't know. Maybe none. But, maybe 200. Shoot the messenger at your own peril... because you might be aiming in the general direction of your own foot.

I am sure you are not the only one I don't recall seeing any pics of tactical knives from the blade show over there.

in any case, is CKCA a paid sponsor here? I find the discussion of another forum's business, solicitation for paying members, and the hotlinks and huge logos in signatures quite odd...I don't recall seeing such things on other forums.

RL

 

[jjtjr]

Thor,

All of the work getting the CKCA started was done by volunteers trying to accomplish something for custom knife collectors. Most of it was done by four or five people.

If you don't like the logo or something about the website, join and come up with a better design.

We were trying to get started by the Bladeshow. We needed a logo and that is the one that we came up with. Nothing that has been done is cast in stone. The majority of the members will decide how everything is done in the future. Anyone who joins can express his opinions on what has been done and hopefully come up with better ideas on things that need to change.

Jim Treacy

 

[Kevin Jones]

Makes sense since you forge.

I wonder if it just speaks "knife" to knifemakers who don't forge - do they feel represented by the anvil?

Actually, I'm surprised this much empathies is being put on the logo when there's so many other important and exciting things going on in the association. We will use the CKCA graphics bar in our identification/promotion probably as much if not more than the logo. Notice stock-removal knives there.
I'm not crazy about changing either though in the near future as we are trying to build a recognizable brand or image which is very important.

The anvil and fire-forge colors are as Karl said "more to reflect the time honored tradition and heritage of years gone by". Nothing more/nothing less.

 

[Thor I am]

Jim,

It is no my point to take away from a lot of hard work that was done to get this going. As I stated in my initial thread, I don't even believe that it is only for forged-knife nuts. I was simply trying to point out that the logo probably won't attract non-forged collectors as easily as forged collectors.

I will stop providing what I considered to be constructive criticism of the org's "face" or anything else related to the org unless I join (as implied by you).

But please keep in mind that you are posting on Bladeforums and not the CKCA forum, and as far as I know as a member here I can have an opinion on any subject started here including your org.



Kevin,

A logo should be for those you are trying to attract not those that made the logo. It isn't relevant what it means to you but rather what it means to those you are trying to bring in (unless that isn't the purpose of your logo unlike most organizations with logos).
BTW, your banner shows only one obvious stock removal knife (all the way on the right).

Anyway, as I said above, my last post on this matter unless I join.

Have fun (I mean that sincerely).

 

[Kevin Jones]

I am sure you are not the only one I don't recall seeing any pics of tactical knives from the blade show over there.

in any case, is CKCA a paid sponsor here? I find the discussion of another forum's business, solicitation for paying members, and the hotlinks and huge logos in signatures quite odd...I don't recall seeing such things on other forums.

RL

I agree with you RL in that I was a little unconformable with the post last night regarding us not allowing screen names on our forum. I would request we not discuss the CKCA forum on this forum.

However, I see the CKCA as a great service to the custom knife industry, thus to some extent to Blade Forums and not a commercial enterprise. So I don't see a conflict here in our general discussion of the association. If the BF moderators don't agree than they can step in and we will end this discussion.

 

[RL]

...and not a commercial enterprise...

thanks for your prompt reply...i guess i was just confused by:

Membership Dues Schedule:

One year membership: $50.00
Three year membership: $100.00
Charter Five Year Membership: $500.00 *
Charter Lifetime Membership: $1000.00 *

RL

 

[Kevin Jones]

Jim,

It is no my point to take away from a lot of hard work that was done to get this going. As I stated in my initial thread, I don't even believe that it is only for forged-knife nuts. I was simply trying to point out that the logo probably won't attract non-forged collectors as easily as forged collectors.

I will stop providing what I considered to be constructive criticism of the org's "face" or anything else related to the org unless I join (as implied by you).

But please keep in mind that you are posting on Bladeforums and not the CKCA forum, and as far as I know as a member here I can have an
opinion on any subject started here including your org.



Kevin,

A logo should be for those you are trying to attract not those that made the logo. It isn't relevant what it means to you but rather what it means to those you are trying to bring in (unless that isn't the purpose of your logo unlike most organizations with logos).
BTW, your banner shows only one obvious stock removal knife (all the way on the right).

Anyway, as I said above, my last post on this matter unless I join.

Have fun (I mean that sincerely).

I would say the folder is far more stock-removal than it is forged.
We would love to have you on board.

We are getting good response from stock removal and forged collectors and makers. Edmund Davidson joined tonight and seems to be excited about the organization.

 

[jjtjr]

Jim,

It is no my point to take away from a lot of hard work that was done to get this going. As I stated in my initial thread, I don't even believe that it is only for forged-knife nuts. I was simply trying to point out that the logo probably won't attract non-forged collectors as easily as forged collectors.

I will stop providing what I considered to be constructive criticism of the org's "face" or anything else related to the org unless I join (as implied by you).

But please keep in mind that you are posting on Bladeforums and not the CKCA forum, and as far as I know as a member here I can have an opinion on any subject started here including your org.

Thor,

I did not mean to imply that you could or should not post about the CKCA on this forum. We are both paid members here and can post on anything that we want.

What I did mean to imply is that the CKCA can use new members such as yourself who do think about the issues and can bring new ideas and make it a great organization.

Jim Treacy

 

[Kevin Jones]

thanks for your prompt reply...i guess i was just confused by:

Membership Dues Schedule:

One year membership: $50.00
Three year membership: $100.00
Charter Five Year Membership: $500.00 *
Charter Lifetime Membership: $1000.00 *

RL

The above was listed in the general information on the opening post, and not discussed further.
Since the association was discussed in it's infancy here and so many involved on this forum, I thought it only fair to introduce it here on the Blade Forums first.

Again, if we are out of line here a PM from a moderator is all that's required.

 

[NickWheeler]

So far it seems to me that everyone involved is open to new ideas and is ready and willing to try implementing them to better the organization.

Good on all you guys for your efforts and willingness to listen to, and work with, the feed-back. :thumbup:

 

[Senator]

I collect forged fixed blades, forged folders, stock removal fixed blades, stock removal folders, hunters, fighters, bowies, dirks, daggers, lockbacks, liner locks, slipjoints, multi-blades, high-tech knives, low-tech knives, big-ass knives, miniature knives, $20 knives, $2000 knives, stainless knives, carbon steel knives, carbon damascus knives, stainless damascus knives, san-mai knives, micarta-handled knives, wood handled knives, meteorite-handled knives, titanium-handled knives, bone-handled knives, ivory-handled knives, carbon fiber-handled knives, pearl-handled knives, G10-handled knives, FRN-handled knives, modern knives, antique knives, factory knives, custom knives, knives, handmade knives, mid-tech knives, knives bought from makers, dealers, collectors...

Did I leave anything out? If so, I collect it as well. How come your logo doesn't represent all the knives I collect?

What the hell, I just joined anyway. Thanks to everyone who's been working hard to get this off the ground. :thumbup: I'll be glad to help in any way I can.

 

[Kohai999]

thanks for your prompt reply...i guess i was just confused by:

Membership Dues Schedule:

RL

I'm gonna keep being nice, but you sure tempt a fella to open up a can of nasty, RL, you appear disingenuous ....we are going for non-profit status, which the U.S. government does not hand out with a box of cracker jacks, and anticipating the need for servers,and a budget to pay someone to maintain them, and act as a webmaster, as well as putting monies into organizations fighting for our knife rights like AKTI and, yes, KnifeRights.

It is not a commercial enterprise, as a matter of fact, it has cost us over $1,000 OUT of pocket so far.

Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Lorien]

I have a fair amount of experience as a volunteer who helps run organizations of volunteers. This is mostly in the mountain bike community and a bit in the trail building community.

I'm currently a relatively silent member, almost exclusively, of this particular niche of the Bladeforums world, and will no doubt develop some form of way of becoming a part of the cutlery industry over time. Given my general history is why I make that assumption.

All these groups I've gravitated toward have been ones that are very individualistic, passionate about IT, and idealistic. It's the idealists of the niche which tend to try and 'present a face', 'gain awareness', 'grow community' through organization. They start as a 'club'. Like when we were kids. Secret handshakes and shit like that.

Often there are different sets of idealists who develop even more of this 'face', who, even though their root motivation is exactly the same, find enough difference to start their own gig. Often regional, but becoming specialized to a larger degree in various segments of the whole.

I have basically one thing to say to this topic, having not read the thread in its entirety, but having enough experience to know what is going on;

You need to focus on your strengths in order to last, and those strengths lie simply in your ability to show up. Don't try to herd cats.

You've developed your identity by naming your organization and by designing a logo. You've developed a membership structure and you have a core group of passionate guys- who show up. These are your strengths. Recruitment should not be a priority. Quality and focus draw the ones you really want anyway.

Don't even bother trying to engage those who question whether you are being inclusive enough, you can never be, in everyone's eyes.

It's funny, and reinforces the theory I've stated here, that a 'mover and shaker' within another niche knife 'club' is vocally questioning your legitimacy, and, in my view, fomenting divisiveness (forgive me if I'm reading too much into other's statements). Even though the two organizations are complimentary.

You have a good name, a good logo, passion and you show up. That's enough. I wish you luck:thumbup:

At this point, in my opinion, this thread should be locked and stickied for the benefit of all concerned. A flame war in this thread would become a real shame. If people want to give further input, they should contact you guys and join your forum. I will for sure:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[Kevin Jones]

Well said Lorien. Bravo. :thumbup:

 

[Gollnick]

Why not join up and help this organisation become what everyone seems to agree is should be?

I'm not convinced that $50 will make that much difference in how my ideas and opinions are received. If I get beat up and belittled for making a few simple suggestions now, why should I believe that the reception will be any different $50 from now?

Are my ideas and opinions going to be any better after I've paid my $50? Is $50 the cost of having your ideas and opinions listened to rather than attacked or, at least, brusquely dismissed?

In the last few pages of this thread, the leadership of this organization has shown itself to be quite resistant to any changes and quite defensive of its established ways. Instead of welcoming new ideas and suggestions and constructively-offered criticisms, you can quite literally hear the hackles rising in this thread. I doubt that $50 is gonna change that. And, I wouldn't want to participate in an orgainization where $50 would change that.

 

[JParanee]

Wish I could have been there to support you guy's glad everything went well

 

[Lorien]

Well then don't! Shut up already

 

[Kohai999]

I'm not convinced that $50 will make that much difference in how my ideas and opinions are received. If I get beat up and belittled for making a few simple suggestions now, why should I believe that the reception will be any different $50 from now?

Chuck,

I don't want you to shut up..but this isn't political or the bali forum, so you get treated like the rest of us in Customs, which you may not be used to...in that, you have to convincingly make your case...and you are not doing a very good job, so far.

If you think that we would make a "token" of you or anyone else, ask yourself why? We wouldn't, I wouldn't......I want you to join, start a balisong sub-forum and moderate it...but you can't slide...everyone has to pay to be a member it is the only fair way to be...and it goes towards the greater good.

You have hardly been "beat up and belittled"....look at some other Customs threads, it can get brutal here...even when I don't post.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Gollnick]

you have to convincingly make your case...and you are not doing a very good job, so far.

My case is, as I have stated it from my first post, that there is a disconnection between what is said and what is shown. The evidence of this is obvious.

Ok, there is a disconnect....we realize that.

And, apparently, I have made my case convincingly.

So, what's gonna be done about that disconnection?

If you find something lacking, help us fix it.

If I had the password to your website, I would. But, I don't. So, I can't. The best I can do in terms of helping you fix it is to point it out. I have done that... and I have been belittled for it.



Others here have pointed out that the logo selected is also quite obviously disconnected from what is being said. It's pretty obviously true. Again, the best and most that the people who are saying this can do to help you fix it is to point it out. They have done their best and it has been soundly rejected too.

If you think that we would make a "token" of you or anyone else, ask yourself why?

I haven't asked for any token at all. In fact, I feel very strongly that I have given.

I've got a friend who is a marketing/management consultant. You could have paid him ten grand for what I just gave you.

In fact, one of his favorite techniques to make money is just to go into an organization and look around and find where actions and words don't match. But, if you're a fancy consultant, you need a fancy word for that. And so it is from him that I borrow his fancy (and expensive) word "disconnect."

Sometimes, when I look at his "work," I say, "And they paid you for that? That's obvious." My friend says that nobody respects free advice; you have to charge for it. I guess he's right.

Sometimes, my friend says, he's paid to come in and say what the guy who hired him has been saying for months. Nobody listens to the guy because he's not a paid consultant; but when the fancy, paid consultant comes in and says it, everyone exclaims, "SMART!" and rushes to impliment.

I guess that my problem here is that I haven't been demanding a payment.

you can't slide...everyone has to pay to be a member it is the only fair way to be

I have not asked to "slide." I would not expect to slide. I didn't slide with AKTI and I don't slide with Kniferights either. I have never asked to nor have I expressed any expectation that I would slide with CKCA. I don't know where you got that impression.

I want you to join, start a balisong sub-forum and moderate it.

I'd love to. I have said from my very first words in this thread that I support this organization in principle. I've said that several times now in this thread and you can take it here as having been said again. I would love to join it and help it succeed. But, based on what I've seen so far, I'm not convinced that I could do anything.