Introducing the "CKCA" (Custom Knife Collector’s Association)

We joined at Blade, missed the meeting because I apparently can not read, but look forward to seeing this organization grow, and doing our part to broaden the scope and interest for all knife genres.

Chuck, don't be so grouchy, join up and showcase one of the best bali collections around!! Besides, you have a MORAL obligation to share your knowledge with the world!!

Tanya
 
As far as goals go, I feel there is room for improvement. We are a very new group and one with most representatives from a common origin (as you have so strongly pointed out) so I see the lack of clear and structured goals as a positive thing, as first we must increase our ranks with people with different perspectives of knife collecting. If our goals were very specifically set right now those would only reflect the will of the few members we had until now, and a fair number of those are in the "big bowie club" ... so that doesn´t sound very fair right?

Please understand, as I prefaced my post, I support the idea of such an organization in principle and would love to support and be involved in such an organization just as I have very actively supported and been involved with Kniferights. But, I do see this disconnection and it raises concerns for me.
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So why don´t you come up and help form the bond that will erase the disconnection? If you are truly concerned, then let´s put your power of will into it. You can also help us build goals that will reflect the needs of knife collectors as a whole, and not the sole view of a few guys that buy a certain type of knife.

What do you say?

Jeff Velasco
 
Gollnick said:
As I said, I have heard a lot of talk about inclusion, but I see a different message. There is a disconnection which gives me some pause. There's an old adage about the relative merits of actions vs. words.

I also have a bit of a concern about pointing out an obvious disconnection and then being slammed for doing so. That only raises more questions in my mind over whether this disconnection is just a lapse or if it is symptomatic of something more structural.

Please understand, as I prefaced my post, I support the idea of such an organization in principle and would love to support and be involved in such an organization just as I have very actively supported and been involved with Kniferights. But, I do see this disconnection and it raises concerns for me.

And then there's the issue I also expressed and which has been ignored thus far which is the apparent lack of any plans to accomplish goals. The presentation on Sunday was long -- painfully so in some places -- on details such as how board members will choose subcommittee members and etc., but quite vague on plans to actually address the group's major missions. I know, I know: it's all very new. But there should still be, IMHO, some fraction of the thought might have been given to that.
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1. Ok, there is a disconnect....we realize that. It will continue for a small period of time until NON forged blade fanatics realize that there is NO other organization out there doing what we are attempting....and become involved.

2. You are hardly being slammed...but you are being called to task, which, imo, is the appropriate response.

3. Kevin is not terribly good at public speaking, at least it is not his primary career, with regards to convincing groups of people with disparate interests to work on a common goal....it is indicative of many possible issues down the line...because no one else wants to do it. I may have to at some point, BUT THAT problem is, I am very polarizing, and maybe not the best spokesperson for ANYTHING except Grumpy Bastards of America.....Jerry Fisk frequently sounds like someone named Cletus in public speaking, so unless you are fluent in Arkansan..............see where this is going? We do the best we can with what we have to work with, otherwise we get nothing done.....Sally Struthers had another commitment, so she couldn't do it.

4. We set up a website, we maintain visibility, we recruit members(and try to give something back immediately, which you must have ignored during the presentation) we will hold seminars, web sales and private shows, and interact with other organizations. What specifically do you question about how will will accomplish our goals?

We have media members, photographers, makers, collectors and dealers ALREADY on board, and we will keep our website actively updated.

If you find something lacking, help us fix it.....otherwise, yes, it looks like you are throwing stones....and that is just plain rude, as well as counterproductive and injurious to the community.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Gollnick said:

I attended the presentation at Bladeshow and have poked around on the website a bit and I have one overwhelming impression: While some say, "we are open to forged and stockremoval custom knives, regardless whether it's bowies, hunters, folders or art knives," virtually all of the knives shown at the presentation and on the website are traditionally-styled, fixed-blade knives and most of the names I recognize among the leadership are folks I associate with traditionally-styled and/or fixed-blade knives. While they seem to be somewhat aware that there might be other kinds of things that some people call "knives," the presentation and the website send a clear message about how these folks define knife in their own mind. For a group that wants to promote itself as "the big tent," they seem to have gone out of their way to exclude everyone except the big-bowie crowd.
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The reason that there are alot of forged knife collectors involved is that the discussion of the organization started with a discussion between Steve Shackleford and collectors at Jerry Fisk's Show. The organization just officially started on June 1, 2008. Right now there are many forged collectors and makers as members, that is why you see alot of forged talk.

When we started this we discussed if we wanted a "forged only", the answer was NO! The only way that we will accomplish anything is if we appeal to ALL custom knife collectors. When more stock removal or folder, or tactical people there will be more discussion on the forum about those knives.

I don't think that there are that many "big forged bowie" collectors. Most also have many other knives whether folders or stock removal. I started out collectioning folders exclusivly and have knives from Emerson, Elishewitz, Dozier, Loveless, Mayo, Pardue, Walker and others none of which are forged.

STeven it was nice to finally meet you as well many of the other CKCA guys that I only knew through the Internet.

Jim Treacy
 
jjtjr said:
I don't think that there are that many "big forged bowie" collectors. Most also have many other knives whether folders or stock removal. I started out collectioning folders exclusivly and have knives from Emerson, Elishewitz, Dozier, Loveless, Mayo, Pardue, Walker and others none of which are forged.

STeven it was nice to finally meet you as well many of the other CKCA guys that I only knew through the Internet.

Jim Treacy
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Man, we really do like a lot of the same guys....WISH I could swing a Walker that appeals to me at this point.....:(

Nice meeting you as well, Jim......appreciate the time that we had to chat, but wish there had been more.:thumbup:

Take care,

Steven
 
You've probably had this experience: you're with some friends and you say, "Let's get lunch. How about that mexican place down on Sixth?... ah... El Fiesta."

"Nay, I don't go there."

"Why not?"

"Two years ago, the wife and I went there and the food was cold and the server was rude and so we just don't go there anymore."

"Did you tell the manager or owner?"

"No. We just stopped going there, that's all."

They say that, in retail business, for every would be customer who complains about something, two hundred just quietly walk away. So, when someone complains, instead of treating him as the lone complainer, the problem child, treat him as a chorus of 200.

How many people have gone to CKCA's website to check it out and just quietly walked away because the knives they saw sent the clear message that this is a club for big bowie fans? I don't know. Maybe none. But, maybe 200. Shoot the messenger at your own peril... because you might be aiming in the general direction of your own foot.
 
Man, if it is just a mater of changing some images you have a weak point to stand on, don´t you? Hidden messages sometimes only exist in the minds of readers who wish to see them.

Now you do have the option to join. It´s only fifty bucks, a couple of pizzas worth, and you can find out if the "message" is true or not. What do you say?

Jeff Velasco
 
This kind of reminds me of the deal a few months back when it was being trumpeted - by the usual instigator of the "us-versus-them" nonsense - that the custom forum was "too forged blade dominated" and that stock removal knives were "not welcome".

When I asked for an example of just one instance where a stock removal knife was was poorly received because of its method of construction, I was met with silence.

Then a collector piped up and declared that we don't see nearly enough stock removal knives on the custom forum. When I asked how many of the knives of his substantial collection he had displayed or reviewed on the forums, I was met with silence.

Here we have someone voicing a perception that, quite contrary to its stated mandate, the CKCA is presenting as a big bowie club.

An explanation is offered - repeatedly and by different parties. It is ignored, and the complaint repeated.

Multiple parties suggest that direct participation would very much help create the demonstrative diversity that is said to be lacking. It is ignored. The complaint is repeated. Again.

Constructive criticism is welcome - nobody thinks this thing is perfect. There will be growing pains and goals will not be accomplished overnight. I, for one, think a HECK of a lot HAS been accomplished overnight and applaud those who have been carrying the lion's share of the labour.

When an individual seeks not to engage in dialog, but simply beat an incessant drum of negativity, one can't help but wonder why.

I can certainly endorse this observation: "There's an old adage about the relative merits of actions vs. words." Good advice indeed. Why not join up and help this organisation become what everyone seems to agree is should be?

Roger
 
Kohai999 said:
1. Ok, there is a disconnect....we realize that. It will continue for a small period of time until NON forged blade fanatics realize that there is NO other organization out there doing what we are attempting....and become involved.

2. You are hardly being slammed...but you are being called to task, which, imo, is the appropriate response.

3. Kevin is not terribly good at public speaking, at least it is not his primary career, with regards to convincing groups of people with disparate interests to work on a common goal....it is indicative of many possible issues down the line...because no one else wants to do it. I may have to at some point, BUT THAT problem is, I am very polarizing, and maybe not the best spokesperson for ANYTHING except Grumpy Bastards of America.....Jerry Fisk frequently sounds like someone named Cletus in public speaking, so unless you are fluent in Arkansan..............see where this is going? We do the best we can with what we have to work with, otherwise we get nothing done.....Sally Struthers had another commitment, so she couldn't do it.

4. We set up a website, we maintain visibility, we recruit members(and try to give something back immediately, which you must have ignored during the presentation) we will hold seminars, web sales and private shows, and interact with other organizations. What specifically do you question about how will will accomplish our goals?

We have media members, photographers, makers, collectors and dealers ALREADY on board, and we will keep our website actively updated.

If you find something lacking, help us fix it.....otherwise, yes, it looks like you are throwing stones....and that is just plain rude, as well as counterproductive and injurious to the community.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Thank you Steven for pointing that out. :thumbup:;) :D :o
 
Chuck,
I joined the CKCA,I like big Bowie/fighters and medium Bowie/fighters as well as Camp knives and Hunters,slipjoints too.
I also dig stock removal and have a few,no Loveless or Lovett but several nice ones I think and hope to learn more about stock removal as well as forged.
I even have a couple of bali's,more homemade than handmade or custom though.
I see this association moving forward and doing large things,wish you would sign up,this organization needs people like you.:thumbup:

Doug :)
 
Consider me a neutral participant on the discussion going on here.

I'll make my disclaimer right up front:
I haven't read this entire thread yet.
I haven't researched the CKCA website yet besides a quick glance.
I haven't decided yet if this is something I want to join (mainly given my limited available time and the fact that I haven't researched it enough yet).
This is just an observation based on the last several threads here.
I don't know Mr. Gollnick from Adam and am not posting to support his general viewpoint and concerns.
(Ok, hopefully won't need a helmet now :)).


I do know a few of the CKCA members (founders?) and respect their viewpoints and opinions. Some of them definitely are more interested in forged blades than stock removal, but I don't think that this means that the CKCA will necessarily focus heavily on forged blades (versus stock removal). I think in the end, how the focus leans depends on how many of the eventual members like forged more and how many like stock removal more. This won't be seen for a long time to come.

The one observation I will make (and I lean more towards stock removal knives in general just judging by quantity in my collection even though it isn't an overwhelming majority) is that the logo definitely screams "forged". An anvil seems to link a lot to the ABS and blacksmiths. I wouldn't really associate that with stock removal knives.

So some of you now have that logo in your sig line and people who don't check the website, don't read some of these threads and only see that logo may very well associate it with the ABS or forged knives.

It may be sensible to change the logo to something more neutral that just speaks to knives and not forging knives.

Just my $0.02 though.
 
Thor I am said:
An anvil seems to link a lot to the ABS and blacksmiths. I wouldn't really associate that with stock removal knives.

So some of you now have that logo in your sig line and people who don't check the website, don't read some of these threads and only see that logo may very well associate it with the ABS or forged knives.

It may be sensible to change the logo to something more neutral that just speaks to knives and not forging knives.

Just my $0.02 though.
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That logo has NOTHING to do with the ABS. I have close friends who forge and are not members of the ABS.
Don't equate "forging = ABS". There are all kinds of makers who have CNC Bridgeports and lathes in their shop - even Journeymansmiths and Master Smiths.
I'll bet the choice of having an anvil in the logo is more to reflect the time honored tradition of years gone by than anything else.
There is a LOT more in that logo if you keep looking!
This is an organization for EVERYONE!
 
Karl B. Andersen said:
I'll bet the choice of having an anvil in the logo is more to reflect the time honored tradition of years gone by than anything else.
There is a LOT more in that logo if you keep looking!
This is an organization for EVERYONE!
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Just like everything else....the logo was designed by committee, and not all are happy with it.

Yes, there is an anvil and hammer...there is also a Fairbairn-Sykes dagger, about as "ANTI" forged as you can get..someone, and my alcohol damaged brain will not allow me to remember, had an all damascus one at the show, and it was really nice...but the inclusion of the F-S dagger was to celebrate the diversity of knives, an anvil is a nice an classic touch, and recognizable at a distance.

A mill, lathe or even a grinder may make a statement, but it is not recognizable to many of the rank and file.

And we aren't married to the logo either..if someone comes up with a better one, we will adopt it.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Yes Karl, but I must admit that the logo kind of bothers me too. The first thing you see there is the anvil, the second is the hammer and the third is the Fairbairn dagger. Now the Fairbairn dagger is a typical stock removal piece (that can be forged as well), but the logo does scream "forged".

That said, I don´t think the logo will interfere with the life of the organization as a whole. If an those images are a solid base for prejudgment then ... maybe I should say that STeven is a freak because of his tattoos or the Skull and Knives avatar he uses or the exotic painting on his signature. What do you think STeven? Do those images give me basis to prejudge you? I don´t think so.

Jeff Velasco
 
I was at the Fisk Show when this idea was first brought up. The only reason it was at Jerry's Show was the group of collectors that were there were interested in Kevin's ideas. I really believe that this is about custom knives and not just about "forged". I have slip joints, tomahawks, fighters, hunters, folders, etc. I just love custom knives and this club does to. I am really excited about the possibilities that this will bring. I really want to thanks Bob, Kevin, Larry, and Stephen for all the work that they have done so far. I'm sure I forgot someone and I apologize for this. I'm really happy that Larry Bailey won the knife that was donated.:thumbup::thumbup:Way to go Larry, it couldn't have happened to a nicer man.:thumbup::D
 
Karl,
I never said it has anything to do with the ABS, I said it seems like it has something to do with the ABS. I also said it screams "forged" which you seem to agree with.

STeven,
It is no secret that I am not nearly as well versed in knives as you and I certainly didn't recognize that little line with the handle crossing the anvil to be a specific type of knife. The anvil is what is immediately noticeable as you said yourself.


You guys are missing my point. I am talking about what is noticeable initially. If you want to attract a wide variety of people, you want your logo to do that. Right now it speaks "forged" to the masses who know a little bit about forged versus stock removal.

Of course, if you only want to attract people who recognize that the little line across the anvil is a Fairbairn-Sykes dagger just by glancing at it and therefore that the logo is for both forged and stock-removal knives, good luck making this organization large. Then again, I thought one of the concepts was to educate those who know less than you - expecting those people to recognize that dagger is hopeless (and I am one of "those" people).
 
BrB said:
... maybe I should say that STeven is a freak because of his tattoos or the Skull and Knives avatar he uses or the exotic painting on his signature. ...
Jeff Velasco
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What? STeven isn't a freak?

GREAT, now you tell me!

(just kiddin', but couldn't resist :D)
 
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