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Is a Busse Worth it?
- Thread starter Merost
- Start date
It is true that survival depends on skill much more than the type or quality of knife you have.
The same is essentially true of fighting knives and swords.
A sword by Masamune, the legendary Japanese swordsmith, in the hands of a novice is nothing compared to an average or even lousy Katana in the hands of a well trained swordsman.
And in the hands of a master, a Masamune is incomparable.
And of itself such a blade is a masterpiece.
The same is true for a working knife.
If you can take advantage of it, a better knife can do more and more efficiently, and mored comfortably.
Plus, a really good working knife is genuinely beautiful, even a work of art.
From the different steels, edge geometries, heat treats etc, that extra performance, extra capability is a fascination . At least, to a knife knut
There really are differences among knives. I say, vive les differences!
The same is essentially true of fighting knives and swords.
A sword by Masamune, the legendary Japanese swordsmith, in the hands of a novice is nothing compared to an average or even lousy Katana in the hands of a well trained swordsman.
And in the hands of a master, a Masamune is incomparable.
And of itself such a blade is a masterpiece.
The same is true for a working knife.
If you can take advantage of it, a better knife can do more and more efficiently, and mored comfortably.
Plus, a really good working knife is genuinely beautiful, even a work of art.
From the different steels, edge geometries, heat treats etc, that extra performance, extra capability is a fascination . At least, to a knife knut
There really are differences among knives. I say, vive les differences!
In my experience INFI holds an edge at 15 degrees per side just fine. My buddies and I have done TONES of chopping with busses that have edges from 12-20 degree bevels per side. I would say that about 90% percent of the time the edges sustain no damage. There are some MINOR edge rolls about 10% of the time. And they are very minimal. They can be stropped out by hand with some cardboard, or a nice smooth rock. INFI holds a 15 degree edge better then any steel I have used to chop with, that includes O1, 1095, 5160, s30v, D2, and 154cm. Now as I said that is for chopping. But it also applies to edge retention on the broad scale. Now if you want to go for just plain edge retention, it is well know that there are other steels that rate better then INFI. But if you can find a steel that has better edge retention, AND strength/toughness, Ill be very surprised.
I have done side by side chopping, and hemp rope cutting comparisons with 1095 from Ranger Knives and Kabar against INFI. INFI wins hands down!! (There are other people on this forum that can back that up.)
Now if you what to go by just cutting ability then you are talking geometry, and that has nothing to do with the steel at all. And we all know that the geometry on alot of Busses is downright lousy. It can be fixed in a matter of minutes.
So, is a Busse worth it for a survival blade? Yes. Honestly I have not personally put a Becker through the same abuse that I have put Busses though. But, I have NEVER had a Busse fail on me. If my survival really depends on a knife,(which in real life it usually dose not depend on you knife like alot of the posters in this thread have said, it is more about knowing how to use your knife) I want it to be the best knife I can find. I want to know that this knife will not fail on me. I know a Busse will not fail. (so far atleast)
I have done side by side chopping, and hemp rope cutting comparisons with 1095 from Ranger Knives and Kabar against INFI. INFI wins hands down!! (There are other people on this forum that can back that up.)
Now if you what to go by just cutting ability then you are talking geometry, and that has nothing to do with the steel at all. And we all know that the geometry on alot of Busses is downright lousy. It can be fixed in a matter of minutes.
So, is a Busse worth it for a survival blade? Yes. Honestly I have not personally put a Becker through the same abuse that I have put Busses though. But, I have NEVER had a Busse fail on me. If my survival really depends on a knife,(which in real life it usually dose not depend on you knife like alot of the posters in this thread have said, it is more about knowing how to use your knife) I want it to be the best knife I can find. I want to know that this knife will not fail on me. I know a Busse will not fail. (so far atleast)
Not trying to be a dick here but, (This is how the dicks always start off huh?:foot
you are saying that a Busse will probably stay sharper longer then a Becker, but that it is not more reliable. Doesn't the fact that it stays sharper longer make it more reliable?
t1mpani
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2002
- Messages
- 5,515
Many excellent points here on both sides---also a lot of crap.
Unfortunately, all of it taken together adds up to absolutely nothing. What you want or don't want will be the deciding factor at the end of the day.
Could you depend on a Busse in a survival situation? Well, if your survival depends on a knife and that's what you have...you'd better depend on it. Same goes for a SAK, or a steak knife, or the sharp piece you're able to pull off the crashed helicopter. Whatever you have, as others have said, it'll be worth little if you can't find water, build a fire, or are bleeding and don't know how to stop it. The skills count for far more than the tools. Oh and by the way...please check to see if the radio on the helicopter still works before you head off into the wild.
Now, to some of the other directions this thread has taken:
Yes, it's true that man got along for thousands of years, surviving in harsh climates against great odds, before Busse came into the picture. Hell, before iron or even bronze came into the picture. Unfortunately, sticking too strongly to this mentality makes you a jackass for spending $60 for your Becker or $40 for your Kabar right along those spending $400 for their Busse. I mean, for God's sake, club a shark to death and pull his tooth out if you need a knife you pussies!
The average annual income in Nepal this last year was, I believe, $210. I'm sure many if not most of the workers over there would look at my $30 Buck 110 and say, "Rich man's toy."
Yes, soldiers get by with cheap knives and manage to survive. You can use this for a model if you want. Soldiers also, for years and years, made do with boots that didn't really fit or support their feet. I was military, and I can tell you for absolute fact that you can get by with less than optimum gear. But I never got the impression that anybody was looking at the Danners I very rapidly shelled out the cash for was thinking, "wuss." Or, maybe they were---remarkable how it never mattered. The opinion of my feet was a whole lot more interesting to me.
All the whining about edge grinds----what kind of self respecting knife knut can't regrind an edge?! I can make a Battle Mistress whittle hair and turn a Dozer skinner into a cold chisel. Busse knives do come with edges thicker than my preference; but then, so do almost all knives regardless of maker, production or custom. Want the grind angle to be thinner? Thin it. Or, ask them to make it thinner at the factory when you order it, or send your secondary-market Busse in and they'll thin that down too. Want to have even more control? Spend $100 on a 1X42" belt sander and a bucket full of water to dunk your blade into every few passes.
As far as what experts say (survival or other) let me offer perspective... Ed Fowler is an ABS Master Smith and absolute expert on knife making. Other professional knife makers listen when he talks. He knows more about working and manipulating steel than probably everybody who has participated on this thread will ever understand, and he thinks 52100 is just about the ultimate blade steel. Kevin Cashen is an ABS Master Smith and absolute expert on knife making. Other professional knife makers listen when he talks. He knows more about working and manipulating steel than probably everybody who has participated on this thread will ever understand, and he thinks 52100's performance doesn't pay for the trouble of working with it, and that it's (to use his phrase) "a square peg in a round hole" alloy for making knives. Both of them have mountains of experience to support their opinions. Now, I'd never say to completely discount the opinions of experts in a given field, but don't latch onto what one says here or there and try to elevate that to being gospel.
Last but not least....yes, it's a pet peeve I return to again and again. The 'simple man hero' image some people like to project when they think a particular knife costs too much. Usually something along the lines of, "Well, if you've got the money and want a toy, I guess I can't stop you from buying it. I think it's silly as hell and makes you a fan boy, but go ahead. For me, a knife has always just been a tool--nothing to get all worked up about." Give me a break, you nitwits---you're on an internet forum, dedicated to knives, talking about knives. If you're here, posting and reading and arguing, then knives occupy a space in your mind that goes far beyond simple tools. When's the last time you jumped on a forum to opine about your favorite flat blade screwdriver or tape measure? If you've spent more than ten minutes here (let alone the hours/days/months/years that apply to many of us) you ARE a fan boy.
OP, try out different things and see what works for you, and accept that what works for you may not be what works for somebody else. I'll offer this, even though it's not exactly what you asked. Is a Busse knife a very high quality product from a reputable maker? Yes. Does it reach rarified heights that make all other knives obsolete? No. Am I happy with my Busses? Very. Did I do most of my hardcore bad-ass stuff at a younger age with a less expensive knife? Yep.
Best of luck and tell us what you decide.
Unfortunately, all of it taken together adds up to absolutely nothing. What you want or don't want will be the deciding factor at the end of the day.
Could you depend on a Busse in a survival situation? Well, if your survival depends on a knife and that's what you have...you'd better depend on it.
Same goes for a SAK, or a steak knife, or the sharp piece you're able to pull off the crashed helicopter. Whatever you have, as others have said, it'll be worth little if you can't find water, build a fire, or are bleeding and don't know how to stop it. The skills count for far more than the tools. Oh and by the way...please check to see if the radio on the helicopter still works before you head off into the wild. Now, to some of the other directions this thread has taken:
Yes, it's true that man got along for thousands of years, surviving in harsh climates against great odds, before Busse came into the picture. Hell, before iron or even bronze came into the picture. Unfortunately, sticking too strongly to this mentality makes you a jackass for spending $60 for your Becker or $40 for your Kabar right along those spending $400 for their Busse. I mean, for God's sake, club a shark to death and pull his tooth out if you need a knife you pussies!
The average annual income in Nepal this last year was, I believe, $210. I'm sure many if not most of the workers over there would look at my $30 Buck 110 and say, "Rich man's toy."
Yes, soldiers get by with cheap knives and manage to survive. You can use this for a model if you want. Soldiers also, for years and years, made do with boots that didn't really fit or support their feet. I was military, and I can tell you for absolute fact that you can get by with less than optimum gear. But I never got the impression that anybody was looking at the Danners I very rapidly shelled out the cash for was thinking, "wuss." Or, maybe they were---remarkable how it never mattered. The opinion of my feet was a whole lot more interesting to me.
All the whining about edge grinds----what kind of self respecting knife knut can't regrind an edge?! I can make a Battle Mistress whittle hair and turn a Dozer skinner into a cold chisel. Busse knives do come with edges thicker than my preference; but then, so do almost all knives regardless of maker, production or custom. Want the grind angle to be thinner? Thin it. Or, ask them to make it thinner at the factory when you order it, or send your secondary-market Busse in and they'll thin that down too. Want to have even more control? Spend $100 on a 1X42" belt sander and a bucket full of water to dunk your blade into every few passes.
As far as what experts say (survival or other) let me offer perspective... Ed Fowler is an ABS Master Smith and absolute expert on knife making. Other professional knife makers listen when he talks. He knows more about working and manipulating steel than probably everybody who has participated on this thread will ever understand, and he thinks 52100 is just about the ultimate blade steel. Kevin Cashen is an ABS Master Smith and absolute expert on knife making. Other professional knife makers listen when he talks. He knows more about working and manipulating steel than probably everybody who has participated on this thread will ever understand, and he thinks 52100's performance doesn't pay for the trouble of working with it, and that it's (to use his phrase) "a square peg in a round hole" alloy for making knives. Both of them have mountains of experience to support their opinions. Now, I'd never say to completely discount the opinions of experts in a given field, but don't latch onto what one says here or there and try to elevate that to being gospel.
Last but not least....yes, it's a pet peeve I return to again and again. The 'simple man hero' image some people like to project when they think a particular knife costs too much. Usually something along the lines of, "Well, if you've got the money and want a toy, I guess I can't stop you from buying it. I think it's silly as hell and makes you a fan boy, but go ahead. For me, a knife has always just been a tool--nothing to get all worked up about." Give me a break, you nitwits---you're on an internet forum, dedicated to knives, talking about knives. If you're here, posting and reading and arguing, then knives occupy a space in your mind that goes far beyond simple tools. When's the last time you jumped on a forum to opine about your favorite flat blade screwdriver or tape measure? If you've spent more than ten minutes here (let alone the hours/days/months/years that apply to many of us) you ARE a fan boy.
OP, try out different things and see what works for you, and accept that what works for you may not be what works for somebody else. I'll offer this, even though it's not exactly what you asked. Is a Busse knife a very high quality product from a reputable maker? Yes. Does it reach rarified heights that make all other knives obsolete? No. Am I happy with my Busses? Very. Did I do most of my hardcore bad-ass stuff at a younger age with a less expensive knife? Yep.
Best of luck and tell us what you decide.
- Joined
- May 16, 2006
- Messages
- 2,724
I was camping in the fall, it was wet and cold. I fell asleep by the campfire. Several hours later I awoke and the fire had died down. I needed some quick kindling to reignite the main logs. I reached for the Busse Cultellus in my pocket and pulled it out to cut some branches. I was cold and tired and didn't remove the knife carefully from its sheath. The edge must have touched one of the rivets as I withdrew the blade. I couldn't cut anything with it, the edge had rolled into a U-shape. It was useless. My SAK saved the day and I used the saw to cut up a bunch of kindling to keep the fire going. From experience it is my opinion that most of the other hard use knives I own wouldn't have sustained anywhere near as much damage from this incident as to render them useless. This is one of the reasons I wouldn't stake my life on INFI, I rely on my knife to cut not to be able to survive, albeit in a useless form, ridiculous amounts of impact abuse.
jdm61
itinerant metal pounder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2005
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- 47,357
Interesting posts. I have never owned nor usd a Busse. The seem to have a good reputation and a rabidly loyal following. The only thing that I can say is that for $400 not including the cost of a sheath, you can get some pretty darn fine custom knives. It is a tad ironic that many of these higher end production knives have gotten so expensive that the majority of custom makers can compete against them on price nowadays. I don't know about bevel angles much because I convex my edges. All I do know is that I can take the edge of a properly heat treated big W2 blade down to near 20 thousands and then convex it and it will scoff at pressure treated 4x4's and still leave bald patches on my forearm.
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- Nov 2, 2008
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- 977
one other thing i dont think ive read be posted is there are lots of Busse collectors which drive up prices. esp on the 2ndry market
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2006
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- 1,350
We get these threads often Merost, but I think it's a valid question (and it gets funny
), I wondered the same thing when I started/came here. To me Busse(kin) is worth it. For the knife/tool for what it can do, for the warranty-not just your lifetime but the life of the blade, for the resale value and for the peace of mind all that gives me, one less thing to worry about.
Like mentioned survival skills are just as important (more even), and I will be learning them for as long as I can, like you seem to be :thumbup:
So my suggestions is if you can get one, get one, if not their are many great makers and companies out there, from Mora to Customs, what's wrong with having them all!
Good Luck and good fun.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2009
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- 3,198
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
I have found when hiking that a good small blade does what I need to do. When I make a formal camp and hiking is not the main purpose, I will take a larger knife because I like to use them and I don't have to pack it around. When I am hunting, I take my hunting knives and a good folder; I am in a camp and do little hiking, certainly no distance stuff.
In 40 years of doing the above and getting myself into some trouble a few times, I can say that my knife NEVER saved my life. My compass, my water filter, water proof poncho and snack bars carried that load.
The closest I ever came to thinking that a knife was a "lifesaver" was when we were rained in and stuck in the middle of a large ranch. It was miles to the main road and in flood conditions the limestone gravel roads were impassable. The "lifesaver" was an old Shrade Golden Spike that we used to open old cans of food we had that had been in the hunting camp for couple years. In its defense, at the time it was considered a pretty nice knife, and it even had a little stone on the sheath. After a couple of cans were opened, it was easy to touch up the blade with the stone, and it never suffered any damage. I think I paid $30 or so for that knife about 30 years ago. Still have it.
I learned you survive in bad situations with your wits and learned skills. Now that's not to say that it isn't a LOT more fun with a really cool blade!
Buy what you want!
Robert
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2009
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- 5,975
I own several Busse's, and use them all, for different purposes. I love the noss4 video's but I don't use my knives anywhere near that extreme, and I don't think anyone does. When you use a good quality fixed blade for stuff like batoning, chopping, perhaps even some digging (although that is stretching it, feels contrived), there are plenty of knives that will hold up, dozens of brands that make knives that are well sufficient for the job.
For example, I also still use Kabars and Cold Steels for hiking and camping, and they've never let me down either. It's the idea, the knowledge of owning arguably the toughest knife on the planet that is the extra kick of owning an ASH-1, an FBM and even a SAR4.
So purely practical, 90% of all camping chores can be done with a RAT, an Ontario, a KaBar, a Cold Steel and lots of other fixed blades of between 50 and 150 bucks.
Want the knife that will never ever fail? Or fail the last? Get a Busse.
For example, I also still use Kabars and Cold Steels for hiking and camping, and they've never let me down either. It's the idea, the knowledge of owning arguably the toughest knife on the planet that is the extra kick of owning an ASH-1, an FBM and even a SAR4.
So purely practical, 90% of all camping chores can be done with a RAT, an Ontario, a KaBar, a Cold Steel and lots of other fixed blades of between 50 and 150 bucks.
Want the knife that will never ever fail? Or fail the last? Get a Busse.
shunsui
Gold Member
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- Aug 12, 2008
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- 5,796
My take on the thread was most people thought the Busses were good knives with a few passionate but unconvincing exceptions. On the other hand the economics are an entirely different matter. Depends on your finances. Even $200 is a lot to spend on a knife for a lot of sensible people. I think you need to do some more research. A lot of people seem to MAKE money buying Busse knives so why shouldn't you ?
Hint: Buy Low, Sell High.
Last edited:
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- Sep 4, 2007
- Messages
- 6,583
It has been my finding that no decent knife will ever fail IF the user is smarter than the knife. Any fool can break any tool. Learn to use what you have at the moment, that would be the key to survival. In the real world, one is seldom thrust in to a survival situation while armed with the best of every type of gear. Learn to survive then acquire the best tools that you can afford while keeping in mind that no one of them will ever save your six.
I dont know Jim, seems to me there are a lot of people who got to work or otherwise every day in survival situations that trust high quality gear to get them home. Military, police, firefighters, hospital patients etc etc etc etc. I dont want any of those situations to use what they have "in the moment"
By the best you can afford, and while you are at it try and figure out what your life is worth in dollars as it could and does come to that.
Skam
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2007
- Messages
- 701
i just wanted to point out what pit said about the sister companies. IMO they make a great product with some pretty cutting edge steel for a drastically reducd price compared to the busse. i bought a scrapyard yard guard back when the CND dollar was good and i use it in combination with my smaller thinner ML woods and bush. the the steel used by the sister companies is a very high caliber steel, in the same class as the busse infi (maybe not as good but damn close) . for example one time i was chopping logs and found out that there was a hardened nail in one piece of wood. completely ruined the blade. took it home and had a working edge back in only about an hour!!! that's pretty impressive. so if you want a super steel knife that gives a bit more bang for the buck with the same rocking warranty then maybe what you want is a rat or dawg.
if i had mega cash then for sure, without a shadow oh a doubt i would have at least 100 busse knives! but we can't all be mega rich. if you want to stretch your money further then look into a busse kin.
Gilles
if i had mega cash then for sure, without a shadow oh a doubt i would have at least 100 busse knives! but we can't all be mega rich. if you want to stretch your money further then look into a busse kin.
Gilles
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2007
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- 9,786
For levity....
I quite literally heard the voice of Mr. T. in my head when I read this part of your post
Go ahead - say it out loud in your best Mr. T. impression!
I quite literally heard the voice of Mr. T. in my head when I read this part of your post
Go ahead - say it out loud in your best Mr. T. impression!
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2007
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- 6,583
Skammer, I know a lot of those folks, hardly any of them use Busse Knives. Are you trying to say that only a Busse can do those jobs, if you are, you are dead wrong, I was military too. Believe me, I trust my life to no piece of gear. There are many other products out there that have been doing the job for decades it is just silly to think that it is a Busse or die.
Seems quite foolish to trust gear to get you home, even "high-quality" gear.