Is Dull, Drab, Ugly and Agressive the New Measure of Beauty?

I was specifically referring to the appeal of roughly-finished exaggerated "hardcore" military cutlery in my last post.

As I've reiterated ad nauseam, I'm just trying to understand the wide spread appeal of a particular fashion trend. Everyone likes what they like, but I'm curious as to why this particular genre of cutlery has become so desirable.

Hi,

A simple question for you. Have you considered the reason that you see the popularity of the "hardcore military cutlery" is because you specifically look for it? All while you hang out, so to speak, with people who gravitate to this style of knife?

A kind of not being able to see the the forest for the trees.

dalee
 
Hi,

A simple question for you. Have you considered the reason that you see the popularity of the "hardcore military cutlery" is because you specifically look for it? All while you hang out, so to speak, with people who gravitate to this style of knife?

A kind of not being able to see the the forest for the trees.

dalee

Hi, Dalee. I'm a little confused here: Are you saying that this style isn't extremely popular? Seems to me that ZT, Emerson and Strider, etc., as well a serious chunk of similar over-the-top "tactical" customs are right up there with CRK, Spyderco and Kershaw popularity wise, but that's a purely anecdotal observation based on what the dealers are stocking and the discussion on various web forums.

Try scrolling through the pages of "new stuff" from this prolific and very popular on-line knife dealer: http://www.truenorthknives.com/vcom/products_new.php

Is it forest for the trees myopia on my part, or is the catagory in question well represented?
 
Hi, Dalee. I'm a little confused here: Are you saying that this style isn't extremely popular? Seems to me that ZT, Emerson and Strider, etc., as well a serious chunk of similar over-the-top "tactical" customs are right up there with CRK, Spyderco and Kershaw popularity wise, but that's a purely anecdotal observation based on what the dealers are stocking and the discussion on various web forums.
Your anecdote is utterly unrealistic. How you could even put CRK, Kershaw, and Spyderco together in terms of popularity only serves to further illustrate how far your perception lies from reality.
 
roughly-finished exaggerated "hardcore" military cutlery
but finely finished simulated military ( microtech picts on website ) is ok ? ;)

Everyone likes what they like, but I'm curious as to why this particular genre of cutlery has become so desirable.
Perhaps the same reason , damascus is popular with some and not with others , why safe queens are popular with some and not others , why stag is popular with some and not with others , same with auto's , bali's and daggers.

Reason ? Appeal , the knives appeal to those that by them. Taste is a matter of opinion , a personal thing. You may see what you call "roughly-finished exaggerated "hardcore" military cutlery" as un-neccessary , but they get used , which to me says a lot.

Personally I don't get having a knife that one is afraid to use for it's purpose as a knife , whether it be for fear of scratching it , damaging the fragile scale materials or whatever , but I respect the knives for the work the makers put into them , even if they are not something that appeals to me.

I just hope "purple" doesn't catch on as a new knife fashion trend ;)

and we need more pictures...just because....
my steak cutter:
HenchMan.jpg
[/IMG]
 
Your anecdote is utterly unrealistic. How you could even put CRK, Kershaw, and Spyderco together in terms of popularity only serves to further illustrate how far your perception lies from reality.

Once again, you nitpick and argue for argument's sake, but bring nothing useful to the discussion. How about shedding some light on the topic at hand rather than indulging in an ongoing pissing contest?
 
Once again, you nitpick and argue for argument's sake, but bring nothing useful to the discussion. How about shedding some light on the topic at hand rather than indulging in an ongoing pissing contest?
Why do you get so upset when someone points out the logical errors and factual inaccuracies in your statements? How can you expect to have a meaningful discussion when your terms are so flawed? Why does it seem like a contest to you? I think facts and logic are useful. Why don't you?
 
As I've reiterated ad nauseam, I'm just trying to understand the wide spread appeal of a particular fashion trend. Everyone likes what they like, but I'm curious as to why this particular genre of cutlery has become so desirable.

You've gotten several answers in the previous pages but anyone who frequents forums knows how these threads go. You'll keep it going until you get tired/bored with the attention because there isn't any satisfactory answer for you.

  • America, which is home to a huge portion of the knife buyers who frequent these forums, the companies who produce the blades they buy and home to the designers of said blades; has been at war for almost a decade. You have the general public being exposed to a military aesthetic on a daily basis.
  • Thick knives are generally cheaper to make and then support in the field (they break less/can be abused by less knowledgeable users more.)
  • "New" drives aesthetics. There are only so many basic shapes that a knife can take, what were seeing now is an attempt to conjure up new grinds, new designs and so forth in the name of innovation and product development.
  • It's not as popular as you think it is. Look at the manufacturer sub-forums, other than the Busse forum (a subculture worthy of it's own study!) the most popular forums are Spyderco, Buck and RAT. None of which really market, make or promote your chosen point of contention. Looking deeper you could even argue that outdoorsman-style cutlery is much more popular based on the traffic in the Wilderness forum compared to the Tactical forum.
  • Looking at the "New Knives" section at TNK I see that a lot of the knives are not what you're saying they are. Very few feature the characteristics you're complaining about the majority are relatively plain designs. Again, you are over representing a small segment of the market.
  • Cheap knives from China allow companies to be more daring with new designs, a potential failure is much less expensive now.


What we really need to do is get to the bottom of this particular trend wherein someone takes the view that their personal likes and dislikes are the only valid ones and subsequently denigrates all differing opinions.

Perhaps you'd feel more comfortable somewhere else?
theylive.jpg
 
I don't hunt,I don't fish, I don't camp, I don't whittle and my knives aren't tools. I like knives that look like weapons. Am I violent ? No, and I certainly don't support any military adventures. I simply like knives that appeal to me on a visceral level ,knives that strike me as... yeah I got to say it;... cool.
Of course if knives used to look like they did in the 'good old days' [and I should emphasize that I'm no youngster] I'd be a good deal richer as I wouldn't be tempted to spend a penny on the [generally ] boring crap that was around a quarter century ago.
 
yes it seems to be.

And what is the deal with the skull beads ??

They are ugly as a dog turd on yer face where ya nose should be !

Take a utilitarian design that is aesthetically pleasing , then ruin it with a skull bead.

WHY?.
 
But don't worry Rick , I don't make " tactical " knives , the only hard use the knives I make get used like this:


:eek::thumbup:
Img_8384.jpg
:eek::thumbup:

Good day to you Mr. Wylie, Any chance you want me to take that beaut off your hands?!?!?!?! I Love that knife!! Nice work my man!! NICE!!! You sir deserve 5:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


Rick,
I think the point of this thread is being lost in personal opinions. I know it's hard to set them aside and discuss unbiasedly, and it's probably even harder to do so on a knife forum. In all honesty I don't think an answer can even come from here. The portion of knives purchased by BF members is probably far from the the amount of non-bladeforumites. A research project I did once showed that enthusiasts of product X amounted to about 15-20 percent of the total sales. Therefore product X was desigend with other people in mind.

I still feel it might have to do with a insecure world on the edge (which is not to say that everyone who owns a tactical knife is insecure!!!)...

Another thing to ponder; what came first, low cost prop like tac knives or quality ones???
 
I am still working on the definition of what constitutes a 'tactical' knife. One could argue that one of the most common tactical knives is a good old Ka-Bar. The vast majority of Striders I don't consider to be tactical knives. A Strider folder with a black or satin blade and G10 slabs, sure. However, the pimped out, tiger striped, worm grooved, pretty colored titanium efforts I see, are far removed from a 'tactical' knife, IMO. Those are more suited in a jewelry store or a brothel.

So we come back to the need to define just what precisely we mean by 'tactical', otherwise this conversation will continue going around in circles, biting it's own tail.
 
  • It's not as popular as you think it is. Look at the manufacturer sub-forums, other than the Busse forum (a subculture worthy of it's own study!) the most popular forums are Spyderco, Buck and RAT. None of which really market, make or promote your chosen point of contention. Looking deeper you could even argue that outdoorsman-style cutlery is much more popular based on the traffic in the Wilderness forum compared to the

I'll take that Busse comment as a compliment.
And as I mentioned, if you look at Busse subforum, you'd find a lot of people are using the knifes as an outdoor cutlery. And a lot of the Busse offerings are being made as an outdoor type of knives, with mean names like Battle Mistress or Tank Buster. Which further supports your theory.

But I think that your arguments are among the best presented so far, except for funny but a bit too personal of a stab in the end.

Larry Turko
I can respect that, although I don't understand you at all. Unless you are a pure collector of things meant for killing. And there are that kind of people, I mean there museums of torture and stuff out there, and people who visit them aren't necessarily psychos.

bigbadboom
Its a matter of taste. I will never spend over $120 just so I can put a dingler on my knife. Matter of fact when I first saw a group buy thread on them, I was very confused, as I couldn't believe the concept. But once again its a matter of taste I was thinking of maybe putting a $20 cross pendant on one of my knifes, I'm still considering it, but its not at the top of my list by any measure. As I said its a matter of taste, when I was a kid I loved fantasy knifes, I didn't care about anything if I could have day dreamed with one.

A.P.F.

Satin blade is far from being tactical, as the glare really is a dead give away. I remember people covering their knives in soot just to avoid that. However the tiger striped knife with groves and other mods that you claim to be fit for a safe queen, is actually a lot more likely to be used by an operator then a satin blade which can usually be found in safes or jean pockets.

The OP looks at exactly that, why or what causes us to find those tactical features safe worthy.
My answer to that would be:
If one ever has anything that was properly made, one would like it. The pure craftsmanship of an item is enough to make us marvel at it. And the more resources is spent on making something the better it could be. Knife manufacturers like Strider, Extrema Ratio, Microtech, and others mentioned in the tactical camp, charge substantial sums for each blade, which technically allows them to spend more time refining the quality of their knifes/tools. Therefore after seeing almost all possible designs over the years and the evolution of the knife, the emphasis shifts from the design to craftsmanship, which in itself is an art. You see that concept in watches, pens, lighters, cardholder, tie pins, sometimes pure elegance of simplicity and fine craftsmanship outshines the exaggerated bling of someone who lacks any sense of style. And those that are selling to the military are forced to improve their craftsmanship in order to be able to compete on that market.

So we end up with a lot of well known tactical manufacturers, who advertise to the military and make great stuff. Which in turns is battle tested and approved in combat. The information regarding those blades is easily available, and one can go out and buy a knife with superior craftsmanship and be happy with what he would consider a collectors item (sometimes limited runs add fuel to the fire).
One is generally introduced to knifes as tools from there one does research (for example he can join these forums and ask) and gradually he is exposed to the information based on its availability, and even if you ask about cheap knifes you can use and forget, you'd get one or two responses, like "don't buy crap save up your $$$ and buy a strider/busse/emmerson/spyderco." Even if you don't buy the knifes then, you are already exposed to their existence and you say to yourself when I have the money to spare I'll try it out.
With any other knifes you'd have to go to custom makers or companies that turn to different type of consumer. And those knifes may look neat, but more often then not they aren't battle tested, and you can only judge the craftsmanship by the picture you see on your screen. You can ask, and ask some more, do research, and find a knife that would fit your style a lot better then any of those tactical knifes, and it will have better craftsmanship. And you will be much happier man if you do score a knife like that. But the chance that you'd be exposed to the information about the right manufacturer are a lot lower then seeing a good review of a strider, or sebenza for example. And in this way its not a trend driven by the public, but rather by the demographic targeting methods used by the manufacturers.

I mean, case and point, I saw MercWorx, and loved their design (with me it was, man I wish I had a knife like that when I needed it, so I'll buy it for nostalgia sake, and I'll still use it as a camping knife once in a while.) So I went to look for info on their quality, and came across Strider, the information on strider quality was far more readily available. I even watched a destruction test of one. But since I often murder my blades I wanted the best warranty and when I came here, I was told to check out Busse. I did end up buying two then and there. Now as we say "no regrets." But just 2 days ago I found out about American Kami, great looking knifes with perfect mix of practicality, and with a warranty that attempts to rival Busse's. Now all those knives are chisel ground which a lot of you out there find repulsing. I think its practical and doesn't look half bad. Considering their prices, I might just buy one of his knives when I get the funds together. As I said, it all depends on the availability of information (as does everything in life).

I'm almost willing to bet that nobody got this far in my post, so I'm going to stop now.
 
Hi, Dalee. I'm a little confused here: Are you saying that this style isn't extremely popular? Seems to me that ZT, Emerson and Strider, etc., as well a serious chunk of similar over-the-top "tactical" customs are right up there with CRK, Spyderco and Kershaw popularity wise, but that's a purely anecdotal observation based on what the dealers are stocking and the discussion on various web forums.

Try scrolling through the pages of "new stuff" from this prolific and very popular on-line knife dealer: http://www.truenorthknives.com/vcom/products_new.php

Is it forest for the trees myopia on my part, or is the catagory in question well represented?

Hi,

Yes I'm saying out in the larger world, they are not very popular at all. And the myopia is yours. Most people who carry knives, tend to carry small pocket knives like SAKs or other slip-joints, or some kind of flimsy, small clip-pointed liner lock.

So while this style of knife may be popular with knife aficionados, this is but a tiny place. And is in no way representative of the wider world. Heck, I've never ever seen a Busse or other similarly styled knife except in pictures while hanging out in a knife forum. Nor do I ever expect to.

So when you make statements like you did, (to yourself or others), you need to also define your parameters, i.e. - the yardstick by which you are measuring. And to me, the yardstick you are using is very short in this case.

dalee
 
Good day to you Mr. Wylie, Any chance you want me to take that beaut off your hands?!?!?!?
That one was made and delivered to a customer specifically for his Red Stag hunt in New Zealand , upon completion of the hunt , he left it with his guide as a tip. It was a gift knife made just for his trip , I just wanted to find out how it would perform in that environment :)

** One thing we can all agree on , the plural of knife is knives. **
This thread needs some humor , so for your enjoyment...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxenUzZPFiQ
 
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