Is it time to rehabilitate Cold Steel? CONTROVERSIAL

I almost feel bad for Cold Steel after seeing those copycat examples. However, I'm not sure about the fixed blade, but the folders aren't available through their website now. All I see on their site now for folders are very unique/original designs. It seems to me that Cold Steel is a knife company that used to sell their knives door to door or at flea markets and now they are trying to grow into something more. IDK. I haven't known them for that long but they do have one or two blades that I either want or are just a few shades away from being legit.

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I think that CS gets a lot of attention and people watch their videos once in a while not only because of their silly marketing and such, but because they have some very unique designs and we are all just waiting for them to take themselves more seriously.
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Aaron, I respect your opinion so I'm asking in all honesty...

What is the difference between those knives and a million other knives that had "strong influence" by Loveless? Would you boycott those copies? Would you ever consider buying a knife like that because you (not necessarily you) know that you couldn't afford the original?

At what point does "homage" become "blatant rip-off"?

Maybe I'm way off the mark, maybe I'm making poor examples, but I truly believe that there are gray areas when it comes to this topic that we as enthusiasts agree to let slide. Passes are given all the time (maybe not by you) to one maker or manufacturer while another gets a royal beat down, and I struggle to see why that is.

Before you ask for examples realize that I'm personally too tired to quibble over it, I just think that anyone who has been around long enough can see that we aren't always fair.

Just my thoughts anyway. Do I have a problem with the knives you posted? Nah, not unless we are going to hold every maker and manufacturer responsible for creating unique designs from here on out.
 
Mannlicher said:
CS makes good, functional knives, from more than adequate steel, and sells them at competitive prices. They stand behind their products. What's not to like?
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Exactly. Mora does the same thing but no one pizzez and moans about them.
 
Strigamort said:
Aaron, I respect your opinion so I'm asking in all honesty...

What is the difference between those knives and a million other knives that had "strong influence" by Loveless? Would you boycott those copies? Would you ever consider buying a knife like that because you (not necessarily you) know that you couldn't afford the original?

At what point does "homage" become "blatant rip-off"?
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That's a fair question, and one that others are no doubt more qualified to answer than I. But for me, the difference is time. Guys like Bob Loveless and Bill Scagel were huge (the hugest?) influences on custom knife making. And they're no longer with us. So naturally makers like to make knives inspired by them.

But Brian Tighe is alive and well and still making his knives. Spyderco still makes the Civilian/Matriarch and Strider still makes the BT. I don't think a copy of a knife can rightly be called an" homage" if the the copied knife is still in production. Certainly not if a patent (or 3) is infringed or the copying company is blowing a raspberry at the company they copied while saying "nyah nyah nyah nyah nyaaah nyah" like a 12 year old boy who got one over on his little sister.
 
Planterz said:
That's a fair question, and one that others are no doubt more qualified to answer than I. But for me, the difference is time. Guys like Bob Loveless and Bill Scagel were huge (the hugest?) influences on custom knife making. And they're no longer with us. So naturally makers like to make knives inspired by them.

But Brian Tighe is alive and well and still making his knives. Spyderco still makes the Civilian/Matriarch and Strider still makes the BT. I don't think a copy of a knife can rightly be called an" homage" if the the copied knife is still in production. Certainly not if a patent (or 3) is infringed or the copying company is blowing a raspberry at the company they copied while saying "nyah nyah nyah nyah nyaaah nyah" like a 12 year old boy who got one over on his little sister.
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So it's only "theft" (your word) if it fits into your own arbitrary time frame?

Patent infringement is actionable. If Cold Steel infringed, then it should be an easy case. If not, then it's not theft.

The knives are clearly different knives....there is no attempt at copying anything. A curved blade, as well as most other basic knife blade shapes, has been around for centuries, The idea that someone can "patent" it is itself dependent upon a single unique characteristic that makes it one's own design; so your objection to another unique characteristic being inserted into the design to avoid infringement is disingenuous. You are basically complaining about one person for the same behavior of which you approve in another. That tells me Poleaxe is right in his assessment.
 
P_Meticulous said:


Copying exactly no.. but ripping off designs.. le duh :D

It would be interesting to see what CS would say regarding the similarities.
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LOL....you're attempting to make a "point" with a picture of Simon Crowell?

Uh, huh....


The only actual MEASURE of "theft" is the patent violation. The rest is just eyewash. A hawkbill is an old design. Belly on a blade is an old design. Putting them together is no less intuitive that any other two functional aspects of blade design. However, putting them together and calling it by a unique name so that one can put a patent on it, while clever, is no more or less clever than making a slight alteration of the design so that one can get the functionality of the two design aspects while avoiding patent infringement.

It's like Emerson's "wave"....a notch on a knife blade to open against a pocket dates back (at least) to a Civil War general who lost an arm. Emerson moved it to a particular spot on the blade and gave it a name....PATENT!!!! Now he gets to stop everyone else from doing it....like he came up with the idea.

Please....if you think there's a legitimate case, then pursue it in court. If not, drop it. But stop whining about it.
 
I ve been trying to force myself to buy a CS for years now and just havent been able to do it!? I dont know why? Maybe I ve turned into a steel snob? I know one thing is I hate the FRN handles that they use and like SOG's. It just feels so cheap! Get some aluminum on there and some S30V at least and Id try out a Lawman! I was gonna buy one of their Viking swords being a big Viking nut but someone told me they are just garbage!? So I still want a Viking sword but perhaps I will have to look elsewhere. Its a shame because here I want to like CS! Maybe if you read this CS Mod and you wanna send me a Lawman to try out that would be cool! Id prob keep it!!
 
Cold Steel Knives said:
I work in the same building as members of our R&D team and believe me, they don't steal designs
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Nah, not trying to make a point, a group of special ed. 2nd graders could tell you they look similar.. Just thought it would be interesting to hear about all the original R&D going on at CS…

P_Meticulous said:
It would be interesting to see what CS would say regarding the similarities.
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The people who complain about "stolen" designs suffer from an extreme bias and miss the obvious point that the vast majority of production knives are based on standard patterns. Take pretty much any production knife out there and you could theoretically find an older knife with a similar design and call it a ripoff, this is just a manipulation of facts to fit a point of view that has already been formed beforehand.
 
I think the Sable and Talon were designs from 2003, and were discontinued in about 2010.

Whilst they do have similarities, and are possibly too similar, the Talon looks like it was made with a thicker tip than the Civilian for a more utilitarian blade function. The Sable has some differences, again probably not enough, and who cares about Strider anyway?

Some Cold Steel knives do take inspiration from other blades, the Spartan from the Kopis, the Espada from the Navaja, and the Tulwar from the Tulwar as examples. I do see the inspiration in the Talon and the Sable, but they're not identical.

Does anyone complain that Schrade and Kershaw have near copies of the Buck 110? Someone comes up with a good idea, and other manufacturers take "inspiration" from it. That's capitalism.
 
Some of you guys are brutal with your criticism. Every knife on the market today has design elements borrowed from other makers. fwiw, CS has created some cool stuff, and they have certainly done a great job with marketing, mass production, and branding. Even if you don't like their materials or their marketing, you should give them credit for being able to build a very successful knife company.

Disclaimer: I'm not a CS collector, and haven't bought anything from them in years. This thread has though inspired me to go check out their website right now.
 
I agree with you BlackOpsSec. I have a Cold Steel SRK that was recommended years ago by a close school friend. He is knowledgeable somewhat in the Knife world for he reads a lot about the craft and how they're made. I'm looking into the 4 ft Blow Gun they make and market for it'll be a definite tool I can add.
 
Freman Bloodglaive said:
Some Cold Steel knives do take inspiration from other blades, the Spartan from the Kopis, the Espada from the Navaja, and the Tulwar from the Tulwar as examples. I do see the inspiration in the Talon and the Sable, but they're not identical.
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Admittedly, those inspirations are actually acknowledged as such, though really, "copying" is pretty much common in the knife world as it is. I mean, look at these, the Buck 120 and the good 'ol Ka-Bar:

Buck120Oneline.jpg


ka-bar_usmc.jpg


Are they copies?
 
Anyone wanting to label CS as a design thief better step up and level the same accusation at the numerous "tactical tomahawk" makers who offer derivatives of identical hawk blade and spike aesthetics, as well as every knife company that has produced a Bowie, kukri, or Marine-type fighter. Be it Gerber, Ka-Bar, Ontario, Camillus, etc., numerous popular knife designs have been mass marketed by competing interests for decades. Selective finger-pointing renders the design theft argument moot.
 
I just found the first CS knife I bought ... many years ago. Anybody know approximately how old this is?

cs1.jpg

cs2.jpg

cs3.jpg
 
DShiflet said:
Admittedly, those inspirations are actually acknowledged as such, though really, "copying" is pretty much common in the knife world as it is.
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One thing I found fascinating reading through a book about the history of bladed weapons was the way in which German and French sword makers would use the names of Spanish sword makers in order to convince their customers that their products were products of the legendary Spaniards.
 
Freman Bloodglaive said:
One thing I found fascinating reading through a book about the history of bladed weapons was the way in which German and French sword makers would use the names of Spanish sword makers in order to convince their customers that their products were products of the legendary Spaniards.
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Not just those companies. Lots of blades were marked "Solingen" that had absolutely nothing to do with being made there. And in the viking age, there were counterfeit "Ulfbeth" swords as well.
 
DShiflet said:
Not just those companies. Lots of blades were marked "Solingen" that had absolutely nothing to do with being made there. And in the viking age, there were counterfeit "Ulfbeth" swords as well.
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Thanks for mentioning the Ulfberht, just doing some reading now. Quite fascinating how the crucible technology occurred at that time.
 
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